[R&F] So let me get this straight about warmongering penalties..

[Question]

If someone declares war on me and i take one of their cities, i get a warmongering penalty, but if if i use a casus belli to declare war on someone who is attacking a CS that i am suzerain of, i get no warmongering penalty?

 

[Softly]

Correct.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Yes. Any time you take a city that didn't originally belong to you, if you don't liberate it (either immediately if the AI conquered it or the end of the war if it's one of their own cities) you get warmonger penalties, regardless of who started the war.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It doesn't matter who started the fight. If you are taking cities beyond what's allowed by your casus belli (if you have one), then you are now the bully.

 

[LightHawKnight]

It doesn't matter who started the fight. If you are taking cities beyond what's allowed by your casus belli (if you have one), then you are now the bully.

I hate that so much. The AI declares war on me for some stupid reason, kills a bunch of my troops, pillage a bunch of my stuff, and I can't walk whats left of my troops to take one little city for vengeance?!

 

[clapyourhands]

I hate that so much. The AI declares war on me for some stupid reason, kills a bunch of my troops, pillage a bunch of my stuff, and I can't walk whats left of my troops to take one little city for vengeance?!

I mean you can, but then you're the aggressor now. You can retake a city that was taken from you for no penalty with the casus belli, but if you're taking cities that were never yours to begin with then you're no longer defending yourself, you're on the offensive.

If France takes Berlin from Germany and Germany takes Berlin back, it's a war of reconquest. If Germany continues to take Marseille and Orleans, then Germany's the aggressor.

 

[LightHawKnight]

I mean you can, but then you're the aggressor now. You can retake a city that was taken from you for no penalty with the casus belli, but if you're taking cities that were never yours to begin with then you're no longer defending yourself, you're on the offensive.

How else do I prove that declaring war on me is a stupid idea?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I hate that so much. The AI declares war on me for some stupid reason, kills a bunch of my troops, pillage a bunch of my stuff, and I can't walk whats left of my troops to take one little city for vengeance?!

Yes. You can give the city back in the peace-out to nullify the warmonger penalty. I mostly like to exact my vengeance by pillaging districts and luxury and strategic resources. If I take a city, I will swap the border tiles to my own cities before giving it back.

I actually like it this way. It prompts you to be clever rather than heavy-handed.

 

[BenitoChavez]

It seems kind of silly that pillaging doesn't incur any warmongering penalty. It doesn't hurt as much as taking a city but it can cripple you pretty badly.

 

[Archon_Wing]

If you don't have many envoys it's often better to denounce them and let the CS fall, then call in a joint war or whatever your best CB is. Liberating the CS in this case cancels a lot of warmongering penalities and I've noticed they often overlook the fact I plowed through most of their empire before liberating stuff.

 

[Scaramanga]

How else do I prove that declaring war on me is a stupid idea?

Don't give them a Casus Belli to use against you other than Surprise or Formal.

 

[Question]

Uh, so if i declare war with the casus belli of protecting a CS, and i take one of the aggressor's cities, do i get any warmongering penalties?

I mean you can, but then you're the aggressor now. You can retake a city that was taken from you for no penalty with the casus belli, but if you're taking cities that were never yours to begin with then you're no longer defending yourself, you're on the offensive.

If France takes Berlin from Germany and Germany takes Berlin back, it's a war of reconquest. If Germany continues to take Marseille and Orleans, then Germany's the aggressor.

Then by that logic, france, america, UK and the rest of the allies must have gotten huge warmongering penalties for taking german/italian cities in WW2 right?

Korea started a war with me, i didnt take any of their cities, and once they recovered they started anothe war with me again...seems silly that im being penalized for letting them live...

 

[LightHawKnight]

Don't give them a Casus Belli to use against you other than Surprise or Formal.

I don't. It is always surprise or formal war, or joint war when someone declares war on me. I try to be friendly, and usually push for a culture victory.

 

[Scaramanga]

I don't. It is always surprise or formal war, or joint war when someone declares war on me. I try to be friendly, and usually push for a culture victory.

Joint wars are formal wars so they must like each more than they like you.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Then by that logic, france, america, UK and the rest of the allies must have gotten huge warmongering penalties for taking german/italian cities in WW2 right?

They would have, if any of the leaders of the axis powers remained but they were all killed or removed from power. Since all the allies were on the same side of a join war they didn't get warmongering penalties amongst themselves. Civ 6 seems to replicate this fairly well.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They would have, if any of the leaders of the axis powers remained but they were all killed or removed from power. Since all the allies were on the same side of a join war they didn't get warmongering penalties amongst themselves. Civ 6 seems to replicate this fairly well.

Or you could view it as an emergency so none of the allies get a penalty for participating.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Then by that logic, france, america, UK and the rest of the allies must have gotten huge warmongering penalties for taking german/italian cities in WW2 right?

If they tried to annex them, they most certainly would have. The USSR certainly got a ton of warmongering penalties afterwards.

 

[Scaramanga]

Uh, so if i declare war with the casus belli of protecting a CS, and i take one of the aggressor's cities, do i get any warmongering penalties?



Then by that logic, france, america, UK and the rest of the allies must have gotten huge warmongering penalties for taking german/italian cities in WW2 right?

Korea started a war with me, i didnt take any of their cities, and once they recovered they started anothe war with me again...seems silly that im being penalized for letting them live...

Yes you will get warmongering penalties when taking cities that don't apply during a Protectorate, Liberation, or Reconquest war.

The Allies liberated cities as they went, they didn't keep them. They knew keeping any German or Japanese city would just build resentment.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Then by that logic, france, america, UK and the rest of the allies must have gotten huge warmongering penalties for taking german/italian cities in WW2 right?

In a way, yes. We fought a war with China almost immediately after WWII ended, and we were adversaries with the Soviet Union for decades, on the verge of outright warfare at least once. But really, the warmonger penalties against the Western Allies were accrued during WWI. WWII was at least as much the result of warmonger penalties as it was a cause of them.

As already mentioned, the Western Allies didn't keep the cities they took from Germany and Japan in WWII. The Soviets, however, did keep the cities they took from Germany and were burdened by severe warmonger penalties for the next 45 years.

 

[Question]

They would have, if any of the leaders of the axis powers remained but they were all killed or removed from power. Since all the allies were on the same side of a join war they didn't get warmongering penalties amongst themselves. Civ 6 seems to replicate this fairly well.

Except that there were plenty of neutral nations still in existence, like Switzerland, who had no issues with the allies winning. In civ 6, switzerland and all the other neutral nations would have gone apeshit at all the "warmongering".