So...No Germany Update?

[DeutschDachs]

Suleimans ability to convert boats is much better than germanys ua imo though. Ottomans can farm ships from a camp, germany has to destroy the camp and hope others spawn. You won't get many units on the smaller map while Suleiman and monty can still farm from one camp

 

[Aaron90495]

Suleimans ability to convert boats is much better than germanys ua imo though. Ottomans can farm ships from a camp, germany has to destroy the camp and hope others spawn. You won't get many units on the smaller map while Suleiman and monty can still farm from one camp

That, and the fact that Suleiman can convert ANY boat, not just barbarians.

 

[DeutschDachs]

I don't think it would be too overpowered if they just gave germany a 100% conversion rate. Odds are 80% or more of the units will be warriors anyway... Maybe I'm wrong though, I haven't played with the UA much on larger maps

 

[Ryoga]

That, and the fact that Suleiman can convert ANY boat, not just barbarians.

The problem is that sea conquest isn't really worthwhile until you get to frigates and privateers...

I guess however that Suleiman will benefit more from his ability now that we have sea trade routes to defend. It might turn out to allow him a more solid economy since the beginning where barbarian galleys are a real pain in the ass.

I don't think it would be too overpowered if they just gave germany a 100% conversion rate. Odds are 80% or more of the units will be warriors anyway... Maybe I'm wrong though, I haven't played with the UA much on larger maps

I actually second this.

 

[JokerJace]

I actually second this.

This would make them somehow playable... I guess...

 

[Loaf Warden]

You can't compare an ability that you get from start for free with an ability that you can only get later on by "paying".
The ability to convert barbarians from camps is only worth it at the very start. Moreover Suleiman's already faces the same problem as soon as privateers become available (and he gets completely outclassed since privateers can steal any ship).

But regardless of that let's even say that Shaka gets that "reformation" belief, Bismark in the same time can get another belief or focus on something else and Shaka will still lose a perk in comparison.

I don't say it's exactly the same. But then, Bismarck's unit maintenance isn't exactly the same as Shaka's, either. My point is, if the complaint is that the German UA is being made less unique by additions in BNW, then the barbarian conversion belief (if it's still in) is simply another way it does that. By itself, that belief isn't a major blow to the German UA, for exactly the reasons you give. But combined with the overlap of the other part of the German UA with the Zulu UA, it's just another reason Germany is less unique than it was and probably could have stood to be given a new UA.

 

[Securion]

Firaxis have said many times they read and listen to the players comments on this site as well as on the 2K Forums, so I wouldn't rule out they actually are...

I cant think of any other issue so talked about as needed changes to the German UA.

I believe they will listen and fix it. At least I hope so.

 

[Loaf Warden]

I cant think of any other issue so talked about as needed changes to the German UA.

The need to change India's UA gets talked about far more, and we know that hasn't happened.

 

[Yig]

I dont understand why people say its a dead civ... they are still entertaining to play. Are they top tier awesome for competitive play? Nope... but not many civs are. There any many civs who have abilities or units that can simply be made moot simply on map selection. For example my current game with russia on a shuffle map i got 0 horses so i never benefited from that part of my UA at all.
There are times when that early random spurt of lucky conversions and larger armys due to the maint cost will win you a game. Sure, its situational... but its by no means a dead civ.

 

[SamBC]

It would really be sad if they kept Germany a dead Civ...

I think many community wishes are debatable, but this one has a (based on the posts I read) 95% agreeing rate. I just can't see why they didn't do anything about it.

I think the forum chatter is just that those who think it should be changed are more vocal than those who don't. The people who want a change care more than those who don't.

 

[anewone]

That's my view, yes.

That's good to hear it wasn't even worse, I was wondering if there was some new mechanic or rebalancing that watered America down even more. America really needs either a minor change in UA/UU or a boost to make it more viable again.

 

[JokerJace]

I think the forum chatter is just that those who think it should be changed are more vocal than those who don't. The people who want a change care more than those who don't.

True, but also this gets a lot more voices than many other things and usually there are always quite a few people against most propositions. Somehow there are practically none in this case.

 

[sepercrod]

Why not ask a mod-maker to change Civ5 Germany to Civ4's version ... or create a different one altogether?

 

[bcaiko]

Bismark and Suleimain can convert barbarians on top on the discount on unit maintenance, Shaka does not.

And Shaka gets +25% XP, which Bismark doesn't. That's neither here nor there. This issue is that they both share a unit maintenance bonus, which no matter the particulars, no matter how you slice it, is a unit maintenance bonus.

There's no reason two Civs should share that bonus in their UNIQUE ability. Especially since folks have been clammoring for a Germany update for some time now. No update on top of making their UA less unique is a slap to the face, IMHO. (And note that I say that as someone who didn't advocate for a Germany change prior to the Zulu's reveal.)

 

[Stangler]

Well with Germany, and particularly Bismark, the major historical characteristic is the unification of the various German city states into a unified German nation. He had multiple opportunities to try and conquer other nations but seemed content to simply rule Germany. I think if you want a German civ it can be built around the idea of giving power to a small number of cities. The bonuses could be production based.

I think they could also add in older German tribes and the Holy Roman Empire as unique civs.

 

[Ulthwithian]

And Shaka gets +25% XP, which Bismark doesn't. That's neither here nor there. This issue is that they both share a unit maintenance bonus, which no matter the particulars, no matter how you slice it, is a unit maintenance bonus.

There's no reason two Civs should share that bonus in their UNIQUE ability. Especially since folks have been clammoring for a Germany update for some time now. No update on top of making their UA less unique is a slap to the face, IMHO. (And note that I say that as someone who didn't advocate for a Germany change prior to the Zulu's reveal.)

While I actually agree with you on Germany, if you don't want to 'slice it', as previously stated Germany and the Ottomans already share a maintenance reduction. I would presume, then, that you would be in favor of switching another of them to something different?

I would really like a Realpolitik UA for Germany, particularly since it's Bismarck... I mean, Bismarck as the Leader ties into neither the UA nor either UU...

Something like...

'Double all Diplomatic bonuses and penalties with other Civilizations. Gain an extra Tenet about gaining an Ideology.'

(Of course, making them more polarizing in Diplomacy is almost the opposite of realpolitik, is it not?)

 

[Petiscator]

If Bismarck got a 50% chance of converting enemy units, then I'd love it, as it would apply to other civs' units and would last the whole game.

 

[Ulthwithian]

Germany as the Zombie Apocalypse Civ? Mmm... I don't think so.

Also, IIRC Furor Teutonicus triggers on taking a Barbarian settlement, whether there's a unit in it or not. To make that general, you'd have to make it on capturing a city.... that could work....

 

[codepoet]

If Bismarck got a 50% chance of converting enemy units, then I'd love it, as it would apply to other civs' units and would last the whole game.

I personally dislike the randomness of Germany's UA. A chance at converting any enemy unit would be interesting (no historic link though), but I'd still dislike it for the randomness.

 

[bcaiko]

While I actually agree with you on Germany, if you don't want to 'slice it', as previously stated Germany and the Ottomans already share a maintenance reduction. I would presume, then, that you would be in favor of switching another of them to something different?

I would really like a Realpolitik UA for Germany, particularly since it's Bismarck... I mean, Bismarck as the Leader ties into neither the UA nor either UU...

Something like...

'Double all Diplomatic bonuses and penalties with other Civilizations. Gain an extra Tenet about gaining an Ideology.'

(Of course, making them more polarizing in Diplomacy is almost the opposite of realpolitik, is it not?)

Hmm. You got me there. I'd forgotten that The Ottomans also get a unit maintenance bonus. Yeah, it just seems like lazy design to me to see three Civs have unit maintenance bonuses in their UAs, even if there is differentiation there.

I thought Loaf Warden had a good idea about getting extra delegates in the World Congress. But something diplomatic would certainly benefit Bismark.