So, what do we find "bad" about Civ4?

[a space oddity]

I read Sullla's walkthrough and the their first SG, and I get a feeling the AI is too weak, no challenge at all, very very boring. I mean, Sullla/Sirian are basically steamrolling the AI, not the fun I was looking for.

Remember that a) Sirian and Sullla are very good players, b) have played the game for half a year already, c) the level is comparable to Regent and most importantly, d) they know the internals of the game through the discussions they must have had during the beta test period.

The walkthrough game just explains the mechanics IMHO, I think you just can't make assumptions about the AI's strength based on that.

 

[Stuporstar]

Thanks KJ, this is exactly what I've been looking for! You need to put this info in the modding section of the forum. I'm sure there's lots of people that want to do this. I know I do! Really though, the only problem I've had with this game is the tech pace being too fast in relation to everything else. Even on a normal game, I ended up skipping the medieval era completely unit-wise. I had all my archers upgraded to SAM infantry. It was ridiculous. What I want is the accelerated production option back. I'd also like some kind of idiot proof interface for modding the rules, like the old CIVIII editor.

My biggest problem was the speed as well, normal really wasn't that bad, but I could have gone for slower, as I tried that, EVERYTHING was so slow, as someone said already, it woulda been nicer if just the tech's were slown down... So... That's what I went and did!

If anyone would like it so their epic games only slow down the tech tree and nothing else, head to your Civ folder and go through it and get to the "Game info" XML
(C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\GameInfo)

Open up the "CIV4GameSpeedInfo" XML file using a simple word device (I'm just using wordpad) and here you'll see a list of stuff that looks like code. For anyone who instantly thinks "uh oh... I really shouldn't touch this", trust me, it'll be simple.

Alright, let's see what we've got here:


Woah! look at all that jibberish! . Seriously though, it's simple - if you look at the top it says "<Description>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_EPIC</Description>" which means epic, it's the one we want to edit. None of this needs to make sense to you really if all you want to do is just increase the research cost and nothing else. So... look to the next quote to see what we've got.



Here we have the normal speed settings, all the info that is coded to get you what you want in the normal game. Notice - everything is set at 100 (xcept inflation), as in 100 percent, i.e. the normal rate, you can confirm this by scrolling lower to the fast game style and you see all the values have decreased again. Anyway, this is what we needed to know, just what makes a normal game normal. So what it looks like you'll need to do, scroll back up to the Epic style section and manually change all the values to 100 EXCEPT the research value.

this is the research value of an epic game - <iResearchPercent>150</iResearchPercent>

That's what you want. So actually, I've already done it myself, and here's what you should end up with:



It's tried and true folks, I've already tested it and it works, all production speeds and worker speeds are the same and technology is slower to learn. Obviously I this shouldn't be the only way we should have to do this if we want a slow game, but hey, atleast it isn't as hard as it really looks.

Lastly, you can use all sorts of values in when editing these files to COMPLETELY customize your gameplay, even how many years go by in a turn. Just by simply editing the # value.

Although you might want to save an extra copy of the original just incase, I always do.

Anyway - Hoped this helped!

 

[Ravinhood]

Thanks King Jason, I've been wanting a 5 year per turn game forever! You just might be a CIV IV lifesaver for me now. I want to feel like I accomplished something after 4000 years, now I can work with the timeline and perfect development so that I can have long glorious years of battle in the ancient period with my ancient units. Going to try that epic adjustment for technology only as well. I'm setting it to 200 double that of normal, that should be just about right also.

You sir are a great value to the community. A standing ovation to King Jason everyone!!

Also the World Info file has where you can change the sizing of the MAPS, so as I wanted I can make the huge map double the size it is now from 32x20 to 64x40. And reduce that silly city maint by distance. Setting it to 25% Adjusted for 15 civs to get 10 cities each as default instead of 11 only getting 6. Woohoo if this works I'll be a happy camper.

 

[ewschone]

So far, I've only been playing on easiest level to get used to the game, and the main thing that is annoying is that the 3d interface feels very sluggish. And I am playing on an AMD3400+, using a Nvidia 6800 card . I can play HL2 with almost all eye candy on .

Dont have much grips with the city interface etc, except that IF you're gonna use mouseovers to get info, it would be nice if they were on longer than a few secs so I can actually read them .

 

[obscurereferenc]

The civiliopedia: Incredibly poorly made. Civ3 did it almost perfectly, but here it is a mess, with few "encyclopedia" entries, and overall confusing. A major setback.

The science-advisor: I don`t know if it`s just me,, but I find this one utterly confusing at times too. Sometimes I`m trying to research techs that for some reason doesn`t seem to list the pre-requisite (that is it doesn`t have those arrow nor a red text saying the other tech is required), but it simply demands I research this tech thats far off and well, it didn`t make sense.

The constricted and convulated city build interface. Civ3 had it pretty nice, a long fast list with unit names and cost and attack ratings and you name it. Here you get a bunch of pictures in a row where you have to mouse-over each one in order to make sense of it. Further on you have to scroll through a very little window to see it all (a poor design which is seen many places in civ4).

Religion: I don`t know why, but it just didn`t seem all that important. I guess I was expecting it to be a major thing where you constantly have to check where the other missionaries are in the world and what religions are trying to catch onto your civilization, but it just doesn`t seem important, at all.

Mouse-over in general: I recon its a bug, but its one that annoyed me immensly. Basically almost all the buttons are prone to sort of disappear.

See, this is the kind of things I wanted to hear from all those fan/beta tester previews, some constructive criticism about things that don't work so well, from people who really know the series. Even if the reviewer in question likes the game overall, they must have noticed SOME of these issues!

 

[Flak]

Well I've read through the thread and I don't think I've read anything that should not be able to be fixed with the current levels of modding. Unfortunately I can't back this up by fixing some of these things my self because the game that was supposed to be released today isn't here yet.... *sigh*

Can somebody verify that the civilopedia text is accessible for editing? This would nice. Since the interface should be written in python, it shouldn't really be that much of a challenge to put the Civilopedia information into a database, whip up an interface, and integrate that back into the game. Of course that will have to probably be done with more experience in database stuff than I, but the Python tutorial does brush over its database capabilities. It's obviously been thought out.

 

[King Jason]

Glad I could help, I hope it works out for you, I've been playing this one game right now for 4 hours and JUST discovered Guilds (which gives you knights) about 10 minutes ago.

My tech speed is 200 as Ravin had mentioned, which which makes the research 100% slower.

I think it makes the game much more interesting for those that want longer games - without the burden of slower production/GP birth rate/Improvement/etc.

As far as Ravin and stupor go.. let me know how if it works out with you guys, if you manage to get a game or two in with the edited stuff.

After playing the game I'm on now, I definately think 200 research is the way to go regardless, it's alot of "click to end your turn" stuff in the beginning, simply because you have no techs. but once you get going you can actually spend time building up city infrastructure or armies and going to war, while the techs slowly come in the background - makes for much more interesting gameplay. It's not just whoevers smartest wins because the flow isn't as fast, yet it also makes technology more important at the same time, because if your DO happen to be the first to discover X advantagous tech, then you most likely have it for a while. Or in the very least, have a few turns head start doing whatever that tech allows before everyone else (i.e. get an early start on a wonder).

Oh and I'll definately post on this in the mod forumn.

 

[Jecrell]

It's addictive as hell... It took a lot of effort to force myself from continuing the game. I love how much more strategic combat has become. It's difficult for once!

 

[Wlauzon]

I hope Firaxis (or whoever managed Civ4) reads and takes note of things mentioned here.

I was like a kid at Christmas waiting for the UK release, but now with all the things that are mentioned, Im half tempted to cancel my pre-order for now and wait until the expansion (which hopefully corrects these).

I hope Civ4 isnt going to be an Everquest 2

Well, let me put it this way.

I just re-subscribed to EQ2.

 

[EVH]

Thanks King Jason, I've been wanting a 5 year per turn game forever! You just might be a CIV IV lifesaver for me now. I want to feel like I accomplished something after 4000 years, now I can work with the timeline and perfect development so that I can have long glorious years of battle in the ancient period with my ancient units. Going to try that epic adjustment for technology only as well. I'm setting it to 200 double that of normal, that should be just about right also.

Ravinhood, about the 5 year per turn game, im interested in this too. I looked at that xml file, and noticed that section of code looks like this:

<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>40</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>50</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>25</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>40</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>20</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>70</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>10</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>60</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>5</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>130</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>2</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>100</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>200</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>

do each one of those represent like a different time period? did you change the year increment to 5 on just the first set? (the first red number). or did you change it to 5 on all of them? (all the red numbers). also, what does the "turns per increment" refer to?

if anybody can clarify this, it is appreciated..!

 

[Ravinhood]

Now thas what I'm takin about, it's 3560bc and I have *8* cities (dances around chair). The computer ai's (14 of them) have *5* each as well and there's plenty of room to plant more. This on a HUGE Pangea map with the 64x40 setting instead of the paultry 32x20 vanilla setting.

The wars are raging and clubmen abound bashing away. By this time before I changed those figures around it would be near 1ad already.

Gonna adjust it to 400 turns to 1ad instead of 800 though, heh thas a little long even for me, but, I must admit an 800 turn early game is lotsa fun with ancient units instead of muskets and tanks. Looks like around 960 to 1360 turns is really just about right for the game I want out of this.

Based on a 400 turn early game to 1ad the pryamids would have been built practically historically, though not by the Mongolians as in this game. lol

3560bc and all the time I've already played finally makes the game feel like I'm accomplishing something instead of racing to the end game. THIS IS FUN!!! Don't understand why so many of you want a game like this to end so quickly. heh just imagine a 4000 turn game. WOOHOO, I'll have to try that one also. Getting research to balance with the extra turns will be the key and the building of the wonders, probably have to quadruple everything to the 4th power. lol

Many thanks to King Jason for salvaging this game for me. I was just hating it before.

EDIT to EVH: Yes I changed the first 3 iyearIncrements to all 5's. And the iturnsperincrement is the number of game turns that those iyearincrements will continue to stay the same. Add all the iturnsperincrements up and you get about 550 turns for a complete game, by adjusting these you can have games with any amount of turns you want and then set the years accordingly for each epoch you want. I started out with an 800 turn early game from 4000bc to 1ad. Am now just working with adjusting research so the techs come equally with the amount of time/turns I want to play. Else I'll have modern tanks before 1ad. heh Other things have to be adjusted as well like the amount of time to produce the wonders. Gonna work on one thing at a time. Get the research levels correct first, then work on how long a wonder should take based on the added number of cities each civ is able to get also 10 is 2x that of the 5 I had been getting, so should take more time to build wonders and research because of this, just like in CIV III.

 

[Wlauzon]

Well I've read through the thread and I don't think I've read anything that should not be able to be fixed with the current levels of modding. Unfortunately I can't back this up by fixing some of these things my self because the game that was supposed to be released today isn't here yet.... *sigh*

True, many of the game issues can be fixed that way.

But the problem is, the interface is by FAR the worst part of the game. All the stupid little icons all over that you have to mouse over, instead of a nice handy little list like Civ3 had for city units etc.

That part Cannot be fixed with mods, and it is the biggest flaw in the game by far.

 

[MeteorPunch]

That part Cannot be fixed with mods, and it is the biggest flaw in the game by far.

Are you sure? I think Firaxis will release a patch to correct it soon.

 

[EVH]

EDIT to EVH: Yes I changed the first 3 iyearIncrements to all 5's. And the iturnsperincrement is the number of game turns that those iyearincrements will continue to stay the same. Add all the iturnsperincrements up and you get about 550 turns for a complete game, by adjusting these you can have games with any amount of turns you want and then set the years accordingly for each epoch you want. I started out with an 800 turn early game from 4000bc to 1ad. Am now just working with adjusting research so the techs come equally with the amount of time/turns I want to play. Else I'll have modern tanks before 1ad. heh Other things have to be adjusted as well like the amount of time to produce the wonders. Gonna work on one thing at a time. Get the research levels correct first, then work on how long a wonder should take based on the added number of cities each civ is able to get also 10 is 2x that of the 5 I had been getting, so should take more time to build wonders and research because of this, just like in CIV III.

great, thanks for clearing that up, it makes sense now.

this is going to take quite some experimenting to get just right, but it will be well worth it in the long run. At least we know that it IS possible to make these adjustments to get the game to fit our style of playing, whatever that may be. I'm all about the very long, slow, games, and it seems you are too. Ill be working on this today.

Cheers

 

[SuperSloth]

WRONG. Civ IV just plain sucks.

Ouch. already. i only played it for about an hour or so and i like many others also noticed how cumbersome the interface is. i prefer words to pictures. pictures are for monkeys. after an hour of playing that is my first complaint.

 

[Segal]

Definately a huge step back from previous Civ games. Give me back my old 2D graphics that made it easy to view the game and understand what is going on. So far I havent been able to get my mind focused passed the terrible interface to determine if I like the game. Fortunately, running Civ 3 on another computer to calm my nerves.

 

[King Jason]

I'm glad to hear your having fun ravin, I posted a seperate topic on the game speed modding in the mod forumn like you suggested.

That's here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=134109

You don't really need to look it through, you've already passed the crash course

accessibility is a bit of a pain when it comes to editing, as there is no actual editor where you can work with this stuff in a simple manner, but once it's pointed out to you, it's a big "duh!" as far as how it all works.

Good luck with getting the timeline matching up with your techs Ravin!

and welcome aboard EVH


(I haven't even slept yet! )

 

[Reg Pither]

Brilliant work, King Jason! (and EVH)

Longer, slower games are what Civilization is all about for me. Who wants to race through the first two thirds of such a rich game while only using about 20% of the available units/techs/improvements?

And knowing how tough to please Ravinhood is (from one or two other game fora) King Jason truly is a King!

 

[Flak]

That part Cannot be fixed with mods, and it is the biggest flaw in the game by far.

Are you sure? I think Firaxis will release a patch to correct it soon.

I think what he meant was that things couldn't be fixed with the level of modding we supposedly have available to us right now i.e., Xml files and Python scripts.

Frankly, from the complaints I've seen so far, unless the Civilopedia text and its interface are not available, the only patch that Firaxis needs to really consider is something for the various graphics issues that are springing up. Supposedly, if I understood the pre-release information correctly, we should be able to modify the interface ourselves with what is released in the Vanilla version of the game. If true, then everything else I read here can be balanced; we can probably patch it all up ourselves. Somebody may want to work up a patch utility at some point that targets Civ IV's file/directory structure.

 

[EVH]

and welcome aboard EVH

thanks..!

glad to be here, ill be sticking around