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So what do you feel is still broken?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Victoria, May 23, 2020.

  1. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    A bit more work on civ balance would be my top ask.

    Beyond that the world congress is still very uninteresting.
     
  2. Aurelesk

    Aurelesk Warlord

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    Well, later in the game, the trade Route goes straight to the city.



    By looking more in detail: Rotterdam is 16 tiles away from London but Amsterdam is only 15 tiles away. Land Trade Route only has 15 tiles range. The only reason a Trader can go from London to Rotterdam now is because I put a Mountain Tunnel. The lone Moutain wasn't blocking, but I guess the game consider the path shorter by 1 somehow.
    Anyway, I still don't why the first time it didn't go to Groningue instead of Amsterdam: I had a Trading Post there.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  3. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    As I mentioned in another thread, tornadoes in Civ6 are bonkers broken. They can wreck your entire empire, and on Civ's scale they can lest for centuries and cover thousands of miles of terrain. They're absolutely absurdly broken.
     
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  4. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    Please make alliances auto-renew or something that you manually cancel or renegotiate.

    It's time to admit that agendas were a mistake or tone down the spam from them significantly.

    Loyalty being trivial the more cities you can take still makes no dang sense.

    Unhappiness really needs to start doing something, this in and of itself would be enough of a nerf to playing wide.

    And yeah, tornadoes are stupidly unbalanced.

    World Congress needs a complete rework.
     
    Krajzen, glider1, Bonci and 6 others like this.
  5. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

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    The changes to naval melee are very encouraging in the zone of unit balance.

    However, they should take note of their decision on Galleys to be at 30 strength. This number is “halfway between an ancient and classical unit.”
    Clearly they recognize that pure ancient era units with no upgrade do not survive the classical. So let us apply this logic to spear men which have the same issue and would also benefit massively from being at 30 strength.

    I would also STRONGLY encourage them to make pikes 45 strength.
    Further, now that a number of Renaissance and industrial era units have been added to the game, we should shift modern era base strength to 75 instead of 70. As far as I can tell, this 5 point departure was because there was such a big gap in units.
    Basically read the logic behind my balance mod, which is nothing more than more consistently applying the very rules firaxis designed the units with.

    That and rethinking certain resource consumption choices on units. Should ironclads require coal, or should they use iron? (No Pre modern unit except them needs fuel.)
    Should helicopters be strength 82 if they need aluminum? Should they be buffed to account for how strong planes are, or should they be changed to need oil? Either is fine.
    Should infantry need oil, given that tanks are much stronger and also use oil? (I would contend that infantry shouldn’t use it but mech infantry do.)
    Should destroyers be the resource free naval unit, or nuclear subs? I would argue for several reasons that naval melee should be the “budget navy.”

    Etc. not very hard issues to implement because it’s just table updates that can be done in a hot second. As long as there are consistent rules that lead to consistent roles, I am happy.

    Edit: I had to fix like 5 typos. It was unconscionable.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
  6. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    My griefs are a little more general but in the same veins, and some connected to things that have been idiotic since the game first came out:
    1. Barbarians in general. They are still (in another Posters great term) "Mindless attack bots" with no other purpose - except, of course, they give you some opposition when the AI governing other Civs is so inept. It's probably a Radical Concept in a Historical 4X game, but I'd like to see Historical 'Barbarians' for a change: Barbarians you can trade with, or hire as mercenaries, or befriend as well as or instead of fight, and who have the potential to occasionally found a City and become something else besides perennial bothers.
    2. Trade in general. Right now, the game still has two completely separate Trade Systems: one for luxuries and other Resources connected to mindless AI requests/demands and utterly independent of the map, and one for generic Gold, Production, Food and Road-Building that is map-dependent but utterly independent of relations between the two terminal cities short of all-out War.
    3. Combat. It's long past time to retire, bury, and drive a stake through the heart of 1UPT: the AI is utterly unable to move or fight its units.
    4. Units. The Unit Promotions/Classes system is both Fantasy and Fathomless. Warriors can never pick up Spears and learn that "the pointy end goes into the enemy"? Pikemen can, some of them, pick up muskets but never any other personal gunpowder weapons? No group of military men anywhere in the world can ever learn how to move fasteror see farther unless they are Scouts? WTF, Firaxis, just WTF.
    5. Victory. We STILL don't have an Economic Victory? So all the Markets, Trade Routes, Banks, etc in the game are just to feed some other Victory Condition? They have, apparently, tried to 'improve' the Diplomatic Victory possibility in NFP, which was ghastly, but I haven't seen any comments yet on whether the change works as intended or not. BUT the 'end game' whenever it occurs is still too often a mindless series of turns slowly accumulating some arcane set of factors to finish a Victory already won. In 3000 + hours of playing Civ VI, I don't think I've actually Completed To Victory more than 1% of the games I've played past Turn 100: life's just too short to waste it spending hours mindlessly clicking "next turn".
     
  7. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    Also bloody hard to keep track of.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  8. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I like how Old World separates them into mindless barbarians and tribes (which your rule can ally and use their units). A bit like the city states, but they have a lot of territory.
     
  9. Socrates-

    Socrates- Chieftain

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    Since OP question was about specific game-mechanics I’ll try to stay clear of general AI issues.

    Thought off a few ‘quick fixes’:

    - Add ‘form escort’ function to religious units.

    - Possibility to set way points. If I remember correctly this used to be a thing in the past.

    - Add in the ‘relationship diagram’ that shows which leaders like/hate/befriended eachother. (Like in Civ 4). Might be a thing on the PC, but on PS4 it seems to be lacking.
     
    DWilson likes this.
  10. Kwami

    Kwami Emperor

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    At least on PC, you can view this information for each AI player when you talk to it. You should see the other players' icons with faces in the corner indicating happy, ally, war, etc. You can only view one player at a time, though.
     
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  11. Socrates-

    Socrates- Chieftain

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    It’s the same on console. I’d like the possibility to see the greater picture. More easy to play political games that way... ;)
     
  12. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Chieftain

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    As someone who detested the mindless, strategy-devoid, repetitive, no-skill-required doomstacks of old, I could not disagree more.
     
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  13. leandrombraz

    leandrombraz Emperor

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    The AI, specially Kupe, needs to get better at settling where they can actually keep the city. Brazil also settled another city that was impossible to keep, right to the North of it. In his defense, the city was in range of one of his cities, but there was no way he would keep it.
    289070_20200523165806_1.png

    Kupe still has his city 30 turns after that though, so he's doing a pretty good job at keeping his loyalty up, despite the odds. It will inevitably rebel, but still, I expected it to rebel way sooner.
     
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  14. AntSou

    AntSou Emperor

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    - AI seems to prioritise strategic resources over loyalty when choosing where to settle, even if that means losing the city to loyalty soon after;

    - No notification whenever a trade deal ends. Makes managing luxuries a pain.
     
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  15. Reckoner

    Reckoner Chieftain

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    Greetings good sir! Can I have a moment of your time to tell you about "Heathen conversion" promotion?

    I can also imagine a promotion for Victor or Amani that affects the behaviour of camps within X tiles of the city center, maybe a suzerain bouns or a dark age policy, too.
     
  16. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

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    This is minor but I also think that isaac newton and Albert einstein need nerfs and changes. They are extremely powerful, and their boosts to universities stack with the rationalism card. I would firstly put albert's bonus onto research labs. I would also look at reducing the boost on newton to 1, and einstein to 2.
    At a minimum, 1/2/3 for hypatia/newton/einstein. Or perhaps they give a bonus, but only to that particular campus or uni.

    I can't help but feel they are just too centralizing in games. 20 science from a university building before CS boosts is completely over the top.
     
  17. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    My number 1 pet peeve. There are numerous ways to deal with it that I would accept - maybe not allow a civ to attack a city state if they're allied to its suzerain. Or give the suzerain the option to go to war with the attacking ally. Or automatically put the attacker and the suzerain at war. But my ally should not be allowed to conquer my city states without risking immediate consequences.

    Two others that have also already been mentioned:
    Tornados. They should damage one tile per turn, and the tiles should be fairly close to each other.
    Recruit partisans. Lots of interesting alternatives to advanced military units randomly appearing in your suburb. I think there was a whole thread on it sometime in the past few months.
     
  18. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    @Victoria it’s a fine line between stuff that “doesn’t work”, bugs, stuff that needs rebalancing or needs tweaking, and features people want. I’m assuming this thread is just directed at “doesn’t work” (or even “doesn’t make sense”) rather than pure bugs and or balance pass stuff (otherwise, we’ll just get a million posts about how the game needs hospitals).

    On the “stuff that doesn’t work” list, I’d tentatively add the following:
    • Pathing is a mess both for units and traders, as already mentioned.

    • Manually repairing pillaged tiles is awfully tedious. An auto repair feature for Builders would improve things immensely.
    • Production Queue. Option to delete everything in the Queue. Option to sequence multiple buildings in a row (eg queue library, University, research lab).

    • Aircraft Carriers. They can’t earn experience, and they don’t get extra plane slots for Fleets etc. I really think these should be a unit like the GDR, where it doesn’t earn experience and can’t upgrade to Fleets etc., and instead gets promotions based on Techs. But at least AA for Fleets has been tweaked.
    • World Congress Resolutions. I generally like the mechanics, but for some resolutions there are just too many Part B options. It gets confusing.
    • Late game unit resources are wacky, as are unit combat values. See @Sostratus post above.

    • Neighbourhoods are useless, although that gets into a wider issue around value of High Pop. Recruit Partisans Spy Mission needs to go or focus on City Centre, because it makes Neighbourhoods actually negative instead of just useless.
    • Negative modifier for different Tier 3 Governments suck. T3 Gov Policy Cards also need to be available for equivalent T4 Governments, otherwise it generally makes T4 Govs actually worse than T3 Govs because you lose access to certain key cards.
    • Shipyards only giving production to unimproved coastal tiles is problematic and unintuitive. I build a Fishing Boat, but my yields go down one Production?

    • Rationalism and other cards with similar mechanics massively distort the game and need to be changed.
    Sorry. Some of that maybe strayed into balance changes stuff. I don’t think there’s really too much that’s truly broken, it’s more about bugs and balance / tweaks. But hopefully at least some of the points above are useful.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  19. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    As someone else mentioned, the UI saying you can move x far, and you cant. Very noticeable on railroads.

    Can we get an ability to automatically build RR from one city to the next. We had something similar in CivV with roads. You can "connect" 2 cities with RR without actually building RR in the city itself. Can we just get auto RR in city tiles?

    I dont think they made it so you can build roads without using charges on ME. Simple change. No reason not to do it. Add an iron resource if you feel its too strong. Doubtful, since roads in the early to mid game aren't that strong outside of traveling through rough terrain.
     
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  20. Boris Gudenuf

    Boris Gudenuf Deity

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    I didn't say anything about returning to SOD: I specifically said that 1UPT Does Not Work with the current AI, which is a position that has been repeated by a host of people on these Forums.

    I thoroughly agree that going back to the Stacks is not an option, but that is not the only alternative: as far back as Test of Time Civ variant they had a Tactical Map for battles that 'spread out' your Stack into 1UPT on a specific battlefield. The Amplitude game Endless Legend does the same thing but keeps the 'tactical map' as part of the Strategic (game) Map, so you keep the connection between strategic and tactical, and they are apparently doing the same thing with the forthcoming Humankind historical game.
    Civ needs to explore alternatives, because right now 1UPT on the game map doesn't work with the AI, and also makes any 'battles' grossly out of space and time scale with the rest of the game
     

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