1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Social Policy Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Sake, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. Talcove

    Talcove Slayer of Spies

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Messages:
    792
    Location:
    Mississauga
    Exactly, so let's just say Rationalism wins, and call it a night.
     
  2. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    I could change it to +1/-4 too. That would give one vote more power, but it would make thread go faster.
     
  3. arand86

    arand86 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    278
    Lets make the change
     
  4. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    I think that gives downvotes way too much power comparatively. If you're doing that, why even have upvotes at all other than for the rationale? I personally like +2/-4 because I think upvotes should matter, but that doesn't actually speed up the thread. Doing anything higher than that would just be weird.
     
  5. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Would +2/-4 even make a difference, since point difference would still be 2? I kinda agree that +1/-4 would give one downvote too much power. Starting at 10 could be an option but i didn't like it, since one unit could die so quickly before anyone can upvote on it.

    On the other hand, list has 61 policies (7 policies per tree * 9 trees). UU thread had 58 units, so its not THAT bad, especially since UU thread started with +1/-2.
     
  6. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    It wouldn't make a difference in length of the thread, but it makes upvotes count more (2 upvotes to counter a downvote as opposed to 3). The best of both worlds (fast and upvotes having strength) would be +3/-6, but then votes would get ridiculously powerful and a few sneak votes could still kill a civ before anyone gets a chance to have a counterargument.
     
  7. sendos

    sendos Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,134
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21 -
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 20
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 21
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 20
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 20
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 20
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 20
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22 a big buff to CV's. Beats that pathetic pre-patch policy that reduced culture cost for next SP by 10%.
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16 Reveals hidden sites and purchase Great Admirals...that's all!?
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 20
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 14
    Exploration - Navigation School - 17
    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 20
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23-
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17

    Forgot to add 1 more downvote. +1, -4 from here on.
     
  8. Optional

    Optional Deity

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,935
    Location:
    It Dockumer Lokaeltsje
    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21 -
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 20
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 21
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 20
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 20
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 20
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 16 +2 gold for a trade route with a CS; can still better trade with real civs then.
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 20
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 14
    Exploration - Navigation School - 17
    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 21 10% extra science when :c5happy: + unlocking Porcelain Tower; lots of science.
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23-
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17
     
  9. Vitruvius

    Vitruvius King

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    862
    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 17 I don't build a lot of wonders, and if I do I rush with engineers. -1 happiness for 10 citizens isn't much..
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 21
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 20
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 20
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 21 Too good. Free food/happiness/culture/faith without doing anything. Bigger the map the better.
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 16
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 20
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 14
    Exploration - Navigation School - 17
    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 21
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17
     
  10. arand86

    arand86 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    278
    Maybe if we cut all points by 5?
     
  11. Beaver79

    Beaver79 Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Messages:
    204
    They nerfed pledge to protect to 5 influence now, so you have to give them gold or whatever to get them to friends now. Otherwise I'd agree with you.
     
  12. Dgodus

    Dgodus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    50
    Now I've got a problem. I really dislike Oligarchy (I generally don't fight defensively and when the gold matters early in the game I don't have lots of cities to hid a unit in to save the maintenance cost. BUT that's the last policy I take in tradition so really it's 4x free aqueducts and ability to purchase GE's.

    So are votes being made in a vacuum? Or in context that to be able to finish a tree you have to take a policy (as I like everything else in tradition basically oligarchy = finisher. On the flip side I do like the finisher in honor, but there is too much chaff in the whole tree); heck even as prerequisites some policies are made better (I like legalism better because of what it opens up for my next selection).

    Kind of difficult to separate policies as they're so interconnected with each other unlike UA'e, UU's, etc.

    (apologies if I've mucked up the names of policies with what it does, I never read the names o what I'm selecting, as well, the names don't actually matter)
     
  13. Optional

    Optional Deity

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    2,935
    Location:
    It Dockumer Lokaeltsje
    I would call that the finisher (+15% growth in your first 4 cities is also part of it, by the way), and the finishers are separately mentioned in this thread, so I don't see the problem. If you find Oligarchy good because you get the finisher through it, then surely your vote should go to the finisher? :confused:

    I find openers slightly more problematic in this way, in the sense that they unlock wonders. They don't grant you a wonder, but if you can get one through it, it can be great.
     
  14. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,408
    Location:
    Maryland
    I voted based in a vacuum, so I would vote down policies I go "Ugh, I really have to take this one to unlock the next??". I got a new appreciation for oligarchy though after I tried liberty once on deity and my cities were so weak against these hordes. It's bad when it's not used, but I think it might be too strong when it is used.
     
  15. jlim201

    jlim201 King

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Messages:
    825
    Location:
    Somewhere North of the South Pole
    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 17 I don't build a lot of wonders, and if I do I rush with engineers. -1 happiness for 10 citizens isn't much..
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 21
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 21- Helps me tons with upgrading that army. Saves you tons of gold, however I rarely go for it because of its location.
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 16- Seriously? No culture even indirectly for a early game policy opener? Trad has +3 cap, Lib has +1 per city, Honor is per barb, Patron makes it easier to get Culture CS, Aesthesics= more GWAMs= more culture.
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 21 Too good. Free food/happiness/culture/faith without doing anything. Bigger the map the better.
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 16
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 20
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 14
    Exploration - Navigation School - 17
    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 21
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17

    Ranking of Trees (in my opinion)

    Rationalism
    Tradition
    Freedom
    Order
    Aesthesics
    Patronage
    Liberty
    Commerce
    Honour
    Autocracy
    Exploration
    Piety
     
  16. BUDISMYBUDDY

    BUDISMYBUDDY Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    77
    :coffee: This is gonna take a really long time
     
  17. lokithepunishr

    lokithepunishr Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    That place West of Japan
    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 17
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 21
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 21
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 16
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 21
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 16
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 21 - +3 production in all coastal cities is really powerful if you have a lot of them.
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 14
    Exploration - Navigation School - 14 - Great Admirals are lame
    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 21
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17
     
  18. Aenthin

    Aenthin Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    216
    My first vote went unnoticed. ._.

    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 17
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 22
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 21
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 16
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 21
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 16
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 21 - +3 production in all coastal cities is really powerful if you have a lot of them.
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 11
    Exploration - Navigation School - 14 - Great Admirals are lame
    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 21
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17
     
  19. Quineloe

    Quineloe Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    458
    and to be fair, you should put Navigational school down to 5 and naval tradition back up to 20 because the three people who downvoted Tradition thought they were downvoting admirals, not happiness from ocean buildings.



    Policy Branch:
    Exploration
    Prerequisite Era:
    Medieval Era
    Naval Tradition
    Game Info:
    Naval Tradition
    +1 happiness Happiness for each Harbor, Seaport, or Lighthouse



    Policy Branch:
    Exploration
    Prerequisite Era:
    Medieval Era
    Required Policies:
    Navigation School
    Game Info:
    Navigation School
    A Great Admiral appears. +2 moves Movement for all Great Admirals. Great Admirals are earned 50% faster.


    That's what you get for not including the information in the first post :)
     
  20. Sake

    Sake Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    145
    Whoops, you're right, i looked at wrong thing when i voted first and the others did the same, it's awkward, but oh well, it happens. This should be correct list:

    Tradition - Opener - 20
    Tradition - Finisher - 21
    Tradition - Aristocracy - 17
    Tradition - Landed Elite - 20
    Tradition - Legalism - 21
    Tradition - Monarchy - 21
    Tradition - Oligarchy - 20
    Liberty - Opener - 17
    Liberty - Finisher - 20
    Liberty - Citizenship - 20
    Liberty - Collective Rule - 20
    Liberty - Meritocracy - 20
    Liberty - Representation - 20
    Liberty - Republic - 20
    Honor - Opener - 22
    Honor - Finisher - 20
    Honor - Discipline - 20
    Honor - Military Caste - 17
    Honor - Military Tradition - 20
    Honor - Professional Army - 21
    Honor - Warrior Code - 20
    Piety - Opener - 16
    Piety - Finisher - 20
    Piety - Mandate of Heaven - 20
    Piety - Organized Religion - 20
    Piety - Reformation - 17
    Piety - Religious Tolerance - 20
    Piety - Theocracy - 17
    Patronage - Opener - 20
    Patronage - Finisher - 20
    Patronage - Consulates - 21
    Patronage - Cultural Diplomacy - 20
    Patronage - Merchant Confederacy - 16
    Patronage - Philanthropy - 20
    Patronage - Scholasticism - 21
    Aesthetics - Opener - 20
    Aesthetics - Finisher - 20
    Aesthetics - Artistic Genius - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Centers - 20
    Aesthetics - Cultural Exchange - 22
    Aesthetics - Fine Arts - 20
    Aesthetics - Flourishing of the Arts - 20
    Commerce - Opener - 17
    Commerce - Finisher - 20
    Commerce - Entrepreneurship - 20
    Commerce - Mercantilism - 21
    Commerce - Mercenary Army - 14
    Commerce - Protectionism - 21
    Commerce - Wagon Trains - 17
    Exploration - Opener - 20
    Exploration - Finisher - 16
    Exploration - Maritime Infrastructure - 21 -
    Exploration - Merchant Navy - 20
    Exploration - Naval Tradition - 20
    Exploration - Navigation School - 5

    Exploration - Treasure Fleets - 20
    Rationalism - Opener - 21
    Rationalism - Finisher - 20
    Rationalism - Free Thought - 20
    Rationalism - Humanism - 21
    Rationalism - Scientific Revolution - 20
    Rationalism - Secularism - 23
    Rationalism - Sovereignty - 17
     

Share This Page