Solar Power: Good or Bad

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

Amazing that no one's responded to this yet. I just destroyed solar energy, and no one seems to care.

There are many ways to get energy from the sun. Some are more efficient than others.

 

[puglover]

Solar power is not a very plausible energy source. Like wind energy, it requires a huge amount of space and money, virtually negating the environmental benefits on all but a small scale.

 

[bhsup]

Don't you think beaming the Earth with microwaves could cause some trouble?

Why microwaves? What if we could turn a large section of the moon into a solar furnace and beam the concentrated light to a facility on Earth to convert it into electricity? Plausible at all?

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

There are many ways to get energy from the sun. Some are more efficient than others.

No, solar energy on a scale that would be needed to provide a practical amount of usable energy requires far more energy in oil to produce and maintain it than it will ever generate during its operational lifetime, ergo, it's pointless. We save energy by not building solar power plants. Sure, putting a little solar generator on top of a streetlight doesn't take a lot of oil, but to build massive solar generators to power a city would be an exercise in waste. Ditto for wind power.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

No, solar energy on a scale that would be needed to provide a practical amount of usable energy requires far more energy in oil to produce and maintain it than it will ever generate during its operational lifetime, ergo, it's pointless. We save energy by not building solar power plants. Sure, putting a little solar generator on top of a streetlight doesn't take a lot of oil, but to build massive solar generators to power a city would be an exercise in waste. Ditto for wind power.

First of all, we are not just talking about big solar power plants. I assume you are referring to the inefficiencies of photovoltaic cells. These are very inefficient and it takes years to get an energy/$ surplus out of them. However there are a number of other ways to generate energy involving some sort of heat engine driven by the solar energy.

 

[History_Buff]

Amazing that no one's responded to this yet. I just destroyed solar energy, and no one seems to care.

Because there is no way I would believe that to be the case. Bring some numbers, or quiet down.

 

[Ecofarm]

Passive solar water heaters (basically black plastic drums that are fixed to the top of homes) are so cheap, efficient, and maintenance free that they are standard in "habitat for humanity" projects. They see economic returns in just a couple of years, and energy returns well within their lifetime.

Proper orientation of a home and placement of windows is virtually cost-free with big returns.

Primative methods of solar heating include cooking by insulation - cost free and energy efficient.

The cost of photo-voltaics will be lower when economies-of-scale produce them. They are not cost-effective yet, but they are alot closer to being so than shale oil, for example. Additionally, producing them does not result in the sort of ecologic damage that shale mining does.

Photovoltaics are good for driving technology and efficiency until we discover how to extract crystalized methane from continental shelves - then it's free natural gas for everyone!

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Because there is no way I would believe that to be the case. Bring some numbers, or quiet down.

It's quite simple, solar energy requires energy in oil to produce any energy from the sun. You need oil to produce the components in factories, oil to mine the elements needed to physically build them, energy to assemble them, energy to deliver food to construction workers putting them together, oil to deliver further workers to maintain them, oil to assemble the clothes for the workers, oil to get workers to and from the plant every day, oil to produce all the tools and stationery used in such plants, and millions of trees to produce the paper needed for filing all the paperwork to get it all done (to do that also requires substantial amounts of oil). To one extent or another, everything is made of oil, most certainly including solar power plants.

And then, of course, you need sunlight and good weather to generate any energy at all.

 

[Urederra]

Don't you think beaming the Earth with microwaves could cause some trouble?

Maybe, that is why I didn't specify how to bring the energy down to Earth.

 

[skadistic]

How do you propose people will be able to afford these homes? House prices are sky high, at the moment, and solar panels would crash the entire housing business due to the immense installation/upkeep fees.

I'm not saying plaster the roof. Just a panel or two to run little things. Upkeep is pretty non existent and initial costs of 10 - 20 k on top of a 500k home is chump change.( not sure about where you are but you cant get a single family home here for under 500k and a condo is around 300k) And there is no crashing the housing industry. Hell a law like that may curb it but can you say that a million mcmansions not being built is a bad thing? Maybe just make it applicable too homes over a certain size since they use more energy anyway. Its not like people need giant homes anyway. Its win win when you have wasteful homes being less wasteful and some not being built at all.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Maybe, that is why I didn't specify how to bring the energy down to Earth.

It would only be a problem if you missed. The receivers on the planet would presumably be capable of handling the microwaves, but a miss for whatever reason would be bad news.

I learned that from SimCity 2000.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

It's quite simple, solar energy requires energy in oil to produce any energy from the sun. You need oil to produce the components in factories, oil to mine the elements needed to physically build them, energy to assemble them, energy to deliver food to construction workers putting them together, oil to deliver further workers to maintain them, oil to assemble the clothes for the workers, oil to get workers to and from the plant every day, oil to produce all the tools and stationery used in such plants, and millions of trees to produce the paper needed for filing all the paperwork to get it all done (to do that also requires substantial amounts of oil). To one extent or another, everything is made of oil, most certainly including solar power plants.

And then, of course, you need sunlight and good weather to generate any energy at all.

All power plants have startup costs not just solar plants.

 

[Urederra]

It would only be a problem if you missed. The receivers on the planet would presumably be capable of handling the microwaves, but a miss for whatever reason would be bad news.

I learned that from SimCity 2000.

LOL, Good scientific source...

 

[amadeus]

Good, and only good, if it is cost-effective. If it isn't, then it is a waste of our time and resources.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Good, and only good, if it is cost-effective. If it isn't, then it is a waste of our time and resources.

And currently it isn't cost effective, so it's a complete waste of time. By all means, research into it, see if it can be made cost effective, but right now that's all that should be done.

It will only be made cost effective when oil no longer is, and that's a major point of dispute and not likely to be resolved in this thread.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Alaws good.

 

[amadeus]

Alaws good.

Wait until they try building them in Nantucket.

 

[GoodGame]

It's all benefits in the long run. People just have to invest their money in their property, and government should encourage it for the health of the economy.

 

[History_Buff]

It's quite simple, solar energy requires energy in oil to produce any energy from the sun. You need oil to produce the components in factories, oil to mine the elements needed to physically build them, energy to assemble them, energy to deliver food to construction workers putting them together, oil to deliver further workers to maintain them, oil to assemble the clothes for the workers, oil to get workers to and from the plant every day, oil to produce all the tools and stationery used in such plants, and millions of trees to produce the paper needed for filing all the paperwork to get it all done (to do that also requires substantial amounts of oil). To one extent or another, everything is made of oil, most certainly including solar power plants.

And then, of course, you need sunlight and good weather to generate any energy at all.

These arguments apply to all power plants, including fossil fueled plants. At the same time, you can build (a not so efficient) passive solar pump out of glass and piping, and it hardly requires oil.

And while the manufacture of the equipment would likely require oil input, you have still made the dubious claim that this oil would outweigh the lifetime production of a solar plant.