Solution: The Globe in Civ V, a really spherical map with only hexagonal tiles!

[ThisNameIsTooLo]

Alright, idea time:

It's not possible to create a grid consisting solely of hex tiles, which conforms to the curvature of a sphere, does not overlap itself, and completely covers the sphere's surface.

However, it's very possible to create a grid consisting solely of hex tiles, which conforms to the curvature of a sphere, and does not overlap itself. As such, you could make a Pangaea map from this, featuring a single supercontinent and no islands more than two tiles out. The hex grid, which dictates movement and territory and all that strategy stuff, is limited to the area of the sphere occupied by the supercontinent and its nearby coastal/sea tiles. The ocean would be gridless.

But wait! If the ocean has no tiles, then how would you be able to cross the ocean??

Well, ocean-faring units would have special movement rules. When on coastal tiles or inland seas, they move the standard, tile-based way. However, you can also direct ocean-faring units to sail off the edge of a continental grid, and they will sail blindly off into the uncharted waters, reappearing a few turns later across the pond. Alternatively, you can command an ocean-faring unit to sail to a previously-uncovered coastal tile (this will also take several turns). Combat would be handled in a manner similar to air units from Civ 4; ships can attack other units and districts in a short radius without moving from their stationed tile, and also be set to intercept any attacking naval units. (Of course, all these mechanics would then carry over to air units as well.)

So you see, we've been going on about this all wrong. We don't need to try to think up some magical, mathematics-defying way of creating a spherical hex grid. We just need to tile the part of the sphere with dry land on it, and make the un-tiled oceans operate by different rules.

 

[Kid R]

Good point. Or still tile the sea but using a different grid. As you say ships move differently anyway so why shouldn't that translate to different tile types than on land. It could even be something like Voronoi tiles (crazy paving) which would tile essentially any area.

 

[ThisNameIsTooLo]

Voronoi tiling would definitely be a neat idea, since they'd be guaranteed to be convex, and you'd never get anything crazy like nested tiles.

But I do have a couple of concerns. One is that map generation might be too complicated, compared to just leaving the ocean as a blank space. And two, it might make pathfinding too difficult for the AI.

 

[mcwaffles2003]

mountains over the pentagonal bits... why is this not a possible fix? its simple and wouldnt interfere in pathfinding

 

[cooldude1128]

mountains over the pentagonal bits... why is this not a possible fix? its simple and wouldnt interfere in pathfinding

Because some units can cross mountains. It'd also be problematic for, say, Earth maps -- unless you can position all the pentagons over real mountains, and I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

 

[ThisNameIsTooLo]

You would also have to cover all tiles within a three-tile radius of pentagons, so that cities can never have a pentagon in their working range. Of course this is an awful idea, because it would make for ugly and predictable maps, to say nothing of how obtrusive it would be on smaller map sizes.

 

[TPangolin]

Unless you make them impassable Natural Wonders.

 

[Fullerene]

Because some units can cross mountains. It'd also be problematic for, say, Earth maps -- unless you can position all the pentagons over real mountains, and I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

Ok, this has probably been discussed many times before, but here we go:

I just don't get it why people find the pentagons such a big problem. The flat map also has impassable mountains, narrow peninsulas etc. The map just never is perfectly balanced and not all city positions are equal. Do pentagons even need to be mountains, natural wonders or any special tiles? I think the pentagons are more like aesthetic issue rather than game play problem.

Maybe path finding could be bit more tricky in some situations, but I think that if we talk about gameplay, the spherical map itself is bigger issue. Since you can only ever see part of the map on screen at time, visualizing the big picture is lot more harder than on a flat map. Especially when playing random maps and not being familiar with the geography like when playing Earth maps. Projecting picture of the map onto flat mini map helps quite a lot on that issue though.

Other issues include scenarios: creating local scenario like WW1 European theater would require game to have 2nd graphic engine to display flat map.

But I can see why Firaxis haven't adapted the sphere map for Civ games: Although the spherical map can feel nice and be beautiful, it doesn't really add so much to game play and it has these small issues people have talked about.

 

[cooldude1128]

Ok, this has probably been discussed many times before, but here we go:

I just don't get it why people find the pentagons such a big problem. The flat map also has impassable mountains, narrow peninsulas etc. The map just never is perfectly balanced and not all city positions are equal. Do pentagons even need to be mountains, natural wonders or any special tiles? I think the pentagons are more like aesthetic issue rather than game play problem.

Maybe path finding could be bit more tricky in some situations, but I think that if we talk about gameplay, the spherical map itself is bigger issue. Since you can only ever see part of the map on screen at time, visualizing the big picture is lot more harder than on a flat map. Especially when playing random maps and not being familiar with the geography like when playing Earth maps. Projecting picture of the map onto flat mini map helps quite a lot on that issue though.

Other issues include scenarios: creating local scenario like WW1 European theater would require game to have 2nd graphic engine to display flat map.

But I can see why Firaxis haven't adapted the sphere map for Civ games: Although the spherical map can feel nice and be beautiful, it doesn't really add so much to game play and it has these small issues people have talked about.

I don't actually find the pentagons to be that big of a problem, and was playing devil's advocate. I'm mostly or completely uninformed about how hard or easy it'd be to code pentagons into the map.

The map thing is actually a problem I hadn't considered or seen somewhere, but it's interesting.

 

[gewc]

i have been struggling with an idea for some time and i stumbled upon your work here, The Globe in Civ V

this is indeed the solution. it is part of the way that humanity can unite and utizlize our planet efficiently and maximise progress and balance.

if u need to know more about me, we have a group you can discover via colundio webpage or secret facebook group, you're welcome to join. my old record label was called rephlex records. we are having our Nth convention to deal with such things.

anyway. I know the size that the hexagons must be.
and i know definitely 2 coordinates which lie within metres of the centre of 2 hexagons. possibly more but unsafe till verified.
i have been appealing to my 3D/math colleagues to help generate a visual model, or write a program that would identify the nodes of a hexagon local/adjacent to one's location on a 2D map.

when we know the coordinates of the nodes we can increase the work and enhance the common purpose and rebalance, verify data and work magic, create sublime music...

it seems like you have done the hard bit already. respect and thanks. please would you care to assist finishing off this vital piece of progress; necessary for dissolving borders, countries, money and helpful for achieving transcendance of physical body, broadcast to the greater lifeforms, travelling across dimensions...

if I were to define the quantity of hexagons around say the equator, and thus work out the size of each hexagon, we can place the 'net' around the globe, based on our g6 node and colundi hub (which is in somalia, africa) and identify colleagues residing in each zone, to implement various undertakings. I'm not sure the equator itself follows the path of one band of hexagons, we'll be able to check that. It will be useful to know when the poles switch. I think, from rudimentary calculation and from relics left by Saint Edward King of England 975 AD, that this should line up with the great pyramid in egypt (either that or an oasis en route between this node and hub, the path between which is a sine wave) as well as a couple of other points in other continents.

this sounds crazy because it seems so impossible. but once people can tell where they are, they will come together.

is it quite easy for you and I to fiddle around with this, in order to be able to present 'the conclusion'

ps not sure if some pentagons are needed, like in a geodesic dome? we have a theory for this eventuality

please/sorry/thanks/peace