Solver's Unofficial BtS Patch

For intents and purposes the AI doesn't use the change religion/civics spy missions or, more importantly, the steal tech mission. THe AI would be much more effective in the late game if it used these missions in addition to the commonly used destroy improvements, destroy hammers, poison water supply, etc.
 
Where did you see that?

What do you mean?

I saw it in my game (if that's what you mean). With the Cristo Redentor, I switched to State Property and whumpf, the HQ city is still reaping the monetary rewards of the corporate HQ, despite the fact I can't build executives or get the other bonuses from the corporation.

Edit: It's actually only the working foreign ones you get the income from. Still, is that the way it's supposed to work?
 
What do you mean?

I saw it in my game (if that's what you mean). With the Cristo Redentor, I switched to State Property and whumpf, the HQ city is still reaping the monetary rewards of the corporate HQ, despite the fact I can't build executives or get the other bonuses from the corporation.

Dr.Jambo -- I would definitely post a save file showing this in the Bug reports. This can't possibly be working as intended! (And I assume you mentioned Cristo just b/c you went there w/o anarchy, no? Was the gold still there the following turn?)
 
See my edit above. It's just the working foreign corps (i.e. in other civs without SP or Mercantilism) that were providing the HQ income. My own branches were shut down. I just wanted to know if that's supposed to be the case?
 
See my edit above. It's just the working foreign corps (i.e. in other civs without SP or Mercantilism) that were providing the HQ income. My own branches were shut down. I just wanted to know if that's supposed to be the case?

That still doesn't pass the smell test in my book. I'd still upload a save file in the Bug reports thread.
 
Solver, there's seems to be a bug with the Imports/Exports part of Demographics screen. If you're no.1 for Imports/Exports and are not under Mercantilism of course, then it also shows your value in the Rival Best column! It should show the value of the next best AI civ.
 
I played a game with the new patch and got to the point of building corporations. Before corp maintenance scale with inflation makes end game corp cost go skyrocket. But now it seems corps is too powerful. I built sid's sushi, got +6 food from it and in a size 25 city i only need to pay 21 gold to maintain and the cost will never go up. It cost even less in smaller cities, basically the maintenance cost of corp can be completely offset by 5 gold in HQ alone and if I spread the corp to my smaller cities, I will end up with a sizable profit just from the 5g from HQ alone, I'm not even counting the return on +6 food per city here. It renders corporation strategy to a no brainer thing, build as many corps as you can and spread it to all your cities. This will allow me to run 0% gold and yet still rack in thousands of gold per turn if I manage to set up 2 or 3 corps and spread it to all my cities. And I would never spread it outside of my own borders. The strategic decision side of corps is completely gone.

My impression is removing corp maintenance from inflation is a really really bad idea. It basically turns the cons of corp into pros and yet still retain the original pros. You end up with a beast that has super advantages and no downside what so ever. In vanilla BTS when corp cost scales with inflation, it really makes you think where and how many branchs to place so you are not gonna tank your research. corp costs were high, but I think thats a good thing, because that kept me in check, I had to resist the urge to spread it to all my cities and only place it in cities that really needs it. I was also forced to spread it abroad to offset the costs. Even with the high cost of corps, I still find the corp a powerful thing to have. But now, it is way way too powerful and it completely broken the intended concept of corps.

In short, my point is the old way how corps worked wasn't really broken. Alot people complains about it. but my take is those people that complains abused the use of corp and spread too many corp to too many of his own cities without strategic thinking ahead. When I played with inflation affecting corps, I also felt the pains of maintenance costs, but it did not tank my research, because I planed ahead. And even then the corp maintenance problem only showed up at very late stage, when inflation is more than 100%.


Simply by removing corp maintenance from inflation is a terrible mistake. This completely brokes the concept of corps. Corp maintenance problem only need to be addressed for later stage of the game when inflation is close to 200%. My take is scale corp maintenance to only 2/3 of inflation. That way you still need to plan about corps, yet it wouldn't be that bad at end game.
 
weimingshi,

You're neglecting the effects of human owned corporations on the AI.

Without a more balanced cost of corporations as the game progresses, the best way to use them is then offensively, to bankrupt and break the economies of the AI...

First and foremost the changes that are required are how the AI uses corporations, particularly ones they don't own the HQ(s) for. Once that's corrected, then assess the overall impact of having corporations on the human side.

With the way Solver's done it, spreading it to the AI has become a more strategic decision. Do you need the cash, or do you want to keep the corporation benefits away from the AI...
 
corporations should be "almost" no brainers.
they do cost a GP, so there still is a cost
why would the corporation be a drain, while a trade mission brings in 3000+ gold?

Agreed. My biggest problem with corporations is that we are only allowed 7 of them. I think every player should be able to start a corporation of every type (i.e. they should be like national wonders, not world wonders). Every players corporation of a type would be a competitor with the other players.

Example: Both I and my ally have a Sushi company. He establishes a branch in one of my cities. This is helpful to me, but it would be better if it were my branch, so do I accept the status quo, or do I spend the money to try to drive him out, or do I try to set up a branch somewhere else. The results would almost always be good, but better for the dominant corporation. Much closer the the real thing in my opinion. The result would be a constant struggle for market share. True economic warfare.
 
the best way to hedge this would be for teh AI to take an approach to spreading corps that human players do now and actively resource trade to deprive the human player of resources.

furthermore, they arent a no brainer because they require gold, GP, civics, and resources to function, which believe it or not forces strategy, just of a different kind.
 
weimingshi,

You're neglecting the effects of human owned corporations on the AI.

Without a more balanced cost of corporations as the game progresses, the best way to use them is then offensively, to bankrupt and break the economies of the AI...

First and foremost the changes that are required are how the AI uses corporations, particularly ones they don't own the HQ(s) for. Once that's corrected, then assess the overall impact of having corporations on the human side.

With the way Solver's done it, spreading it to the AI has become a more strategic decision. Do you need the cash, or do you want to keep the corporation benefits away from the AI...

I agree w/this. I am a lot more reluctant to spread corporations to foreign civs under Solver's fix; before, it was almost a no-brainer to do so.

I think Solver's fix may go a bit too far though -- given the benefits involved, I think it would be best to just break even (+ or - a few GP) for establishing corporate branches in your home territory. Under Solver's fix, if I build a corporation in my Wall Street city, I am actually making money for each branch established in a home city. There really isn't an incredible incentive to spread the corporation to foreign civs -- which, I think, is supposed to be the "corporate dilemma": spread overseas and make lots of money? Or keep all the benefits to myself, and just break even?

(With the exception of Civilized Jewelers -- given that one of its benefits is cash, I fully expect to make money on that one...)
 
I quite like the numbers I've been seeing with my fix so far. I have had corporations that make a bit of money, and corporations that lose me money, if they provide powerful benefits (like Sushi on a seafood-rich map). Spreading the corporation to AIs is still a matter of long-term benefits vs. short-term. It costs a good amount to spread, but you gain some HQ benefits for the long-term. And you still give the AI a maintenance penalty, though surely not enough to bankrupt them.
 
What are the *.cpp files and where do they go? Are they necessary to be installed anywhere in the BTS installation to work properly?
Thanks in advance...
 
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