Some advice? I'm stuck in a denouncement cycle

[tommytoxen]

Denounce -> Denounce expires -> immediately denounced again -> expires -> immediately denounced yet again
This has been going on for a while. I'm still quite early in the game (play on epic) and only uncovered my continent not gone ocean exploring yet few techs away from it

Egypt kept trying to settle a city in my country, squeezing it into a little peninsular where my capital was expanding into so I hate to keep declaring war and razing it then I just started declaring war and capturing his settler before he got there.

So he's aggressively trying to settle MY lands yet i'm somehow the warmonger even though he was clearly deliberately provoking me, I asked him not to settle my lands but he said blah blah i'm sovereign ruler blah blah.

Anyway my borders finally expanded and he's left me alone since then. But Rome, France, Byzantium, Shoshon and Egypt (all the countries on my continent) are constantly denouncing me even though the wars have been over forever now.

How do I get out of the denouncement cycle and win favour back with the other civs? Fudge Egypt he can go to hell but I'd like to be friends with Rome and Byzantium at least. How do I get them on my side?

I have a spy as a diplomat in Egypt (don't wanna provoke more international scandals through getting caught spying) hoping he plots against someone so i can tattle tale to win brownie points but he's just constantly plotting against me.

 

[lunker]

Sounds to me your international standing has already been ruined. The best you can manage is keeping civs fearful of you with a powerful standing army. The ones overseas should be fine though.

If the civs that denounced you don't actually dislike you (no other negative diplo mods), then you might be able to salvage relations in the future (wars against common enemies, trade deals that benefit them, shared ideology).

Next time you can try getting Egypt to declare war on you instead. Provoke him when he complains about anything ("Get over it.") for a chance for him to declare war.

 

[TwoPodRay]

Denounce -> Denounce expires -> immediately denounced again -> expires -> immediately denounced yet again
This has been going on for a while. I'm still quite early in the game (play on epic) and only uncovered my continent not gone ocean exploring yet few techs away from it

Egypt kept trying to settle a city in my country, squeezing it into a little peninsular where my capital was expanding into so I hate to keep declaring war and razing it then I just started declaring war and capturing his settler before he got there.

So he's aggressively trying to settle MY lands yet i'm somehow the warmonger even though he was clearly deliberately provoking me, I asked him not to settle my lands but he said blah blah i'm sovereign ruler blah blah.

Anyway my borders finally expanded and he's left me alone since then. But Rome, France, Byzantium, Shoshon and Egypt (all the countries on my continent) are constantly denouncing me even though the wars have been over forever now.

How do I get out of the denouncement cycle and win favour back with the other civs? Fudge Egypt he can go to hell but I'd like to be friends with Rome and Byzantium at least. How do I get them on my side?

I have a spy as a diplomat in Egypt (don't wanna provoke more international scandals through getting caught spying) hoping he plots against someone so i can tattle tale to win brownie points but he's just constantly plotting against me.

Do you play with Transparent Diplomacy? It shows all positive and negative Diplomacy modifiers. Every time you declare war, you get a small hit of warmongering and every time you captured and razed that city you probably did as well. It’ll wear off eventually over time and if that’s the only reason they dislike you, they’ll stop denouncing and come around. Giving gifts in their favor is the easiest (giving a luxury without asking anything from them or just giving a few gold per turn)

 

[Omen of Peace]

At this stage, they probably denounce you to earn favour with... the other civ denouncing you, so no wonder it's endless.
Next time you'll know to anticipate the problem and get at least a couple of cicnon your good side (via gifts for instance).

 

[tommytoxen]

Thanks guys. I'm just trying to keep my nose clean at the moment, and gifting. Hopefully it'll blow over once the other civs start hating themselves, and I've not discovered the other continent yet so I'll make friends there

 

[CrazyG]

A good chance to reset diplomacy is when ideologies are chosen.

 

[Stalker0]

Archeaology can help (though tough to get that open border in your situation). putting a landmark in an enemy area gives a nice diplomacy bonus.

 

[tu_79]

Archeaology can help (though tough to get that open border in your situation). putting a landmark in an enemy area gives a nice diplomacy bonus.

It's not nice to call them enemies if you are building landmarks for them.

 

[TwoPodRay]

It's not nice to call them enemies if you are building landmarks for them.

Unless you’re on a team, they’re all enemies, since you’re competing with them to win!

 

[tu_79]

Unless you’re on a team, they’re all enemies, since you’re competing with them to win!

I see you have entered panic mode in advance

 

[tommytoxen]

A good chance to reset diplomacy is when ideologies are chosen.

Ah, we're just at the point of choosing ideology, I hope so.
It just got worse and worse. I made friends with civs on teh other continents and all was well, suddenly they all started denouncing me too FOR NO REASON AT ALL. I haven't done anything wrong for 3,000 years WTH is wrong them with them? "Other civs have told us blah blah blah". What? Other civs told you that 3,000 years ago I went to war because some moron was trying to aggressively settle their cities in my country so you're denouncing me now 3,000 years later for no reason at all?" MAKES SENSE. i'm literally denounced by all other 21 civs just for defending my territory 3,000 years ago..

Archeaology can help (though tough to get that open border in your situation). putting a landmark in an enemy area gives a nice diplomacy bonus.

Thanks I'll do that!

It's not nice to call them enemies if you are building landmarks for them.

Unless you’re on a team, they’re all enemies, since you’re competing with them to win!

Haha ;D

 

[lunker]

Ah, we're just at the point of choosing ideology, I hope so.
It just got worse and worse. I made friends with civs on teh other continents and all was well, suddenly they all started denouncing me too FOR NO REASON AT ALL. I haven't done anything wrong for 3,000 years WTH is wrong them with them? "Other civs have told us blah blah blah". What? Other civs told you that 3,000 years ago I went to war because some moron was trying to aggressively settle their cities in my country so you're denouncing me now 3,000 years later for no reason at all?" MAKES SENSE. i'm literally denounced by all other 21 civs just for defending my territory 3,000 years ago..


Thanks I'll do that!



Haha ;D

I feel your pain man. I wish I could tell the bots "No, YOUR behaviour infuriates me!" If you are doing well for yourself then you'll naturally incur fear and jealousy from other civs. Progress and Authority civs usually suffer from this. I've been such a nice civ in my current game and even with nothing but green modifiers (transparent diplomacy on) I still cannot make friends because I am in second place and have 25 cities.

 

[tu_79]

I propose you a simple exercise. Try a civ that can thrive being tall (incas?). Use transparent diplomacy. Try to always have as many units as the AI (not many more, not many less). Then go and try all the things we suggested: pick a friend and one enemy, babysit your friends as discussed above, and provoke your enemies. Maybe your current game is too wrong to be fixed now. Don't refuse a fight, but don't go for capitals. Check opinion regularly to see how your actions affect it.

Don't think about winning, this is just an exercise.

 

[tommytoxen]

I feel your pain man. I wish I could tell the bots "No, YOUR behaviour infuriates me!" If you are doing well for yourself then you'll naturally incur fear and jealousy from other civs. Progress and Authority civs usually suffer from this. I've been such a nice civ in my current game and even with nothing but green modifiers (transparent diplomacy on) I still cannot make friends because I am in second place and have 25 cities.

Ah, I always choose authority, not for any real reason, if i don't i just get my patooty kicked in wars early on, but by mid-late game i'm always lagging behind policies and tech so next game gonna try a different tree first

I propose you a simple exercise. Try a civ that can thrive being tall (incas?). Use transparent diplomacy. Try to always have as many units as the AI (not many more, not many less). Then go and try all the things we suggested: pick a friend and one enemy, babysit your friends as discussed above, and provoke your enemies. Maybe your current game is too wrong to be fixed now. Don't refuse a fight, but don't go for capitals. Check opinion regularly to see how your actions affect it.

Don't think about winning, this is just an exercise.

Well I got great news, today the tide seems to be slowly turning. Netherlands, Russia, France, Babylon & Rome have all stopped denouncing me and for the first time in 3,000 years i have civs who is... 'FRIENDLY' instead of 'HOSTILE' and 'DENOUNCING'. dunno about the rest yet they still all have 20-50 turns of denouncing me left. i could shed a tear, i never thought i'd see it. France & Russia are both 'FRIENDLY', i have an embassy with them both, my only two embassies. neither will accept a declaration of friendship yet though, i presume that's because of the heat it would bring from other civs?

I was in a war with Indonesia, they declared war on me for no reason at all, so I took the opportunity to invade them and liberate one of Babylon's cities which made people 'mildly grateful', and I also propose things in world congress that makes people grateful.

 

[Galbias]

This was something I saw in another thread recently which is that forward settling disputes aren't really handled "fairly" from a diplomatic standpoint. The AI is going to do what it wants and you can deal with it the nice way (settle the locations yourself first, block them off with your borders, tell them to piss off and hope it works) or you can declare war and deal with the consequences, capturing the Settler is probably going to give you less of a diplo penalty than capturing and possibly razing a city would. I'd like something better but it would probably be very difficult to create, in your situation it sounds like the other AIs wouldn't even have been able to see the city spot so they wouldn't have a way of knowing who was provoking who. In my experience it's pretty rare that this results in everyone hating you but that's just how it goes sometimes.

Casus Belli should increase the speed of warmonger score delay so that -might- help, though on the flipside it's more likely to get people to declare war on you in the meantime.