Some improvement, but discovery and mapping of whole world is still too early

[Seven05]

I think you're analysis is outdated here, Seven05. It used to work like this a long time ago. Now, it doesn't matter if you "scout" a peak or flatlands. The same area is revealed. Try it. Also, flight range has been changed to 1 in wildmana (and I'm not sure but I think visibility range reduced also).

I don't doubt that, like Stasis the birds are one of those things I disabled a long time ago (and continue to disable with each update) because I don't like them

If you really just want to adjust the AI's obsession with map trading it's very easy, and all in XML. Wild Mana breaks the leaders up by civs in the modular folder but if you dig around you can easily make them less likely to trade maps, you can even adjust it per leader individually so some can still be easy to trade with. Increase their thresholds for open borders at the same time and you'll probably get close to what you want although FfH has a lot of units that can explore rival territory.

 

[Pazyryk]

OK, here's an updated list for a possible challenge option called "non-trivial exploration":

1. Move map trading to Astronomy.
2. Remove explorer unit. Set workboat movement to 1.
3. Reduce galley movement and strength by 1, remove sentry promotion (too easy now for these guys to see and avoid lizards, or even to kill them sometimes).
4. More work on "deep oceans" so that you can't just steer your caravel around the sea monsters:
   • Change sea monster movement to 2.
   • Remove sentry as a starting promotion for caravels.
   • In addition to minor damage, storms randomly move caravel one or two tiles.
5. Move hawks to Animal Handling
6. Adjust all leaders to substantially reduce map trading tendency. Baseline requirement should be "friendly" (so a few trade at "pleased" and others never offer their map; Lanun leaders should definitely be in the latter category).
7. Adjust all leaders to substantially reduce open borders tendency. Baseline requirement should be "pleased" (so a few offer open borders at "neutral" and others only at "pleased"; no one should ever offer open borders when hostile, as currently is the case).

#1 and 6 together are almost like outright removal of map trading, but not quite. I often get Astronomy early/mid game when playing as Lanun or as any civ starting on an island. This would allow you to get maps of civs that you have very good relations with (for example, civs that you converted to OO) to reveal large continental interiors. The main thing is to stop the AIs from freely trading maps among themselves so that you mostly only get part of the map revealed rather than everything at once.

I suggested #7 mainly as an exploration issue, but it clearly would have a larger impact. It would deepen the good vs. evil and religion vs. religion conflicts. (This is good in my opinion because civs are just too cozy in the current game.)

Edit: Just a few comments about AI attitude effects based on my experience. I play Emperor difficulty. I very rarely give in to any demands (only when I really need open borders with someone specifically to get some trade going). I often play evil leaders. Nevertheless, I very rarely have any civ (even of opposed alignment and hostile relations) that refuses open borders indefinitely. They might refuse at first but they almost always offer open borders at some point later. So mid/late game, my evil leaders usually have open borders with everyone and I haven't given in to a single demand. I don't want to kill trade entirely, but it should take a little more work to establish trade routes and in some cases (opposed alignment and/or religions) it should be impossible. I don't think Erebus should resemble a giant free trade zone where most borders are as open and peaceful and safe as the USA-Canada border. Good neighbors should be the exception, not the rule. It should be hard to find or make a friend.

 

[graywarden]

Pazyryk,

Not sure if you have played or tested in the current version, just adding a note that in my first test, past mid game that between the pirates and nessies, exploration isnt what it use to be.. haha... but again I am not an over aggressive explorer or map trader. Not trying to discourage or take away from your thorough assesment, just wanted to add an update that I see taking place.

 

[Pazyryk]

I started an 8.30 game with Os-Gabelle, on an island with coastal connection to Austrin lands to the West. I had no contact with anyone else; my two explorers got killed, one by lizard and one by sea monster (I cheered out loud at the second incident!), and I was too busy building the Prophecy of Ragnarok and temples to build more at that time. Sara and Ecks was (were?) reluctant to open borders. She (they?) finally relented after I caved in to two demands for technologies. That's rare for me but I really wanted the trade and I knew that I needed to send a galley/trireme combo in to get past a particular pesky lizard and explore beyond the Austrin. Then she (they?) offered me a trade: Corruption of Spirit for Archery + World Map. Well... as it turned out, all other civs were on one big pangaea. So that was that. Except for some probably empty ocean, all the significant world was revealed to me on turn 155. End of discovery.

 

[Seven05]

• Adjust all leaders to substantially reduce open borders tendency. Baseline requirement should be "pleased" (so a few offer open borders at "neutral" and others only at "pleased"; no one should ever offer open borders when hostile, as currently is the case).

A quick note here. If you do this, and if Sephi hasn't change the diplomacy AI too much, you can get open borders with other civs sharing a common war regardless of their attitude. So even if the require a friendly attitude if you're both at war with the same enemy they'll usually ask for open borders the next turn and keep them in place until one of you is no longer at war. So while this change can make exploration and trade a bit more difficult it doesn't make it much harder to wage war on distant foes and it makes shared wars even more important for diplomacy as that's probably the only way you'll get open borders with many civs, since both shared war and open borders give you an attitude bonus with most civs this can actually open up 'real' open borders later which seems appropriate to me.

 

[seizer]

I started an 8.30 game with Os-Gabelle, on an island with coastal connection to Austrin lands to the West. I had no contact with anyone else; my two explorers got killed, one by lizard and one by sea monster (I cheered out loud at the second incident!), and I was too busy building the Prophecy of Ragnarok and temples to build more at that time. Sara and Ecks was (were?) reluctant to open borders. She (they?) finally relented after I caved in to two demands for technologies. That's rare for me but I really wanted the trade and I knew that I needed to send a galley/trireme combo in to get past a particular pesky lizard and explore beyond the Austrin. Then she (they?) offered me a trade: Corruption of Spirit for Archery + World Map. Well... as it turned out, all other civs were on one big pangaea. So that was that. Except for some probably empty ocean, all the significant world was revealed to me on turn 155. End of discovery.

Have you tried the tectonics - lakes mapscript? On my last game on this, the world wasn't mapped until I got omniscience, and 350ish turns in (on normal speed) only about 2/3 of the world was occupied. IIRC this was with some extra AIs thrown in as well.