[BTS] Some late game questions

[Tobiyogi]

Hi there,

i am about to finish my first very conscious late game, where I pay attention to most of the processes.

Some thing i don't quite understand:

- Why is it from a certain point not possible to trade with my vassals? I was using Mansa as good trading partner but when he got Ecology, I would have given him Computers, but he didn't need it. He "wants" nothing at all though I was several techs ahead.

- The war weariness is quite tough in the late game, at least -10 with 1. Turn of war. Especially in my captured cities. I have Statue of Zeus though (maybe obsolete anyway). Is is maybe linked to civics? Or are people in the modern area simply less likely to tolerate war? (actually, that's a good thing).

- last question concerns the corporations, and maybe it is also dependent on the economy civic. I was running Environmentalism and brought some of those "Mining" guys to another continent. They increase hammers in those cities but the price is triple as on the mother continent. Is that maybe better with State Property?

Thanks for answers

 

[Lennier]

I don't know why Mansa is refusing to trade with you. Usually by that point in the game, joint wars have brought you to friendly with your vassals, so the "We Fear You Are Becoming Too Advanced" issue should be gone. You can hover over Ecology and see what excuse he has to not to trade with you.

War weariness slowly decays when at peace, but you generally have some left over from previous wars. The main issue with modern wars is the large number of units, leading to large numbers of units killed/lost making WW build up quickly.

In BtS, cities on landmasses other than your capital pay triple maintenance. Corps pay extra maintenance under Environmentalism. The best civic for corporations is Free Market. State Property turns off corporations. If you're conquering in multiple landmass maps, State Property is probably the way to go rather than corps. Corps are best when going for space.

 

[Olafeson]

Mh can you double check the "vassals will not trade with me anymore".
I am pretty sure they always trade techs with you, even when they have furious relations with you

 

[Lennier]

I've had newly-acquired vassals refuse to trade techs with me. At least until I've had enough to trade to them.

Vassals will trade resources with you, even their last copy of one (but won't necessarily accept every one of your resources.) You can demand vassals gve you resources; after the first time they might refuse and break free. But you can't demand techs.

 

[Tobiyogi]

no, it's different, we were friendly and he would have traded me his stuff. the problem is that he and the other vassals (who were extremly behind) did not seem to need anything from me. I thought this would be an in-built game mechanic to prevent too much trading with vassals because that would make the game too easy

 

[AcaMetis]

I don't suppose you've got something like No Tech Brokering on? Not entirely sure how that setting works, but maybe that's the issue? Or maybe he's going full Culture Victory mode and doesn't think he'll need more techs, so he refuses to trade for them? You should be able to hover over the tech in the trade screen and be told why he doesn't want it.

Not sure, I've never seen this before. Definitely hover over the techs in the tech screen and see what the game says insofar as to why he doesn't want it.

 

[Tobiyogi]

it's true, I usually play without Brokering. you can only trade what you had fully self-teched before. and I did. still, my techs didn't even appear in the right list, there was nothing. i had at least 3-4 techs that he could have needed. don't know what kind of victory he was going for. I suppose it's a kind of limit - because when you have 4 vassals, and each of them gives you 80 gold for something like education every third turn, you have quite a regular income, this feels like almost cheating

 

[lymond]

Vassals will always trade techs with you. However, once you reach the Space Parts techs that may be different...I can't remember at the moment since I rarely go for Space, but generally AIs don't trade the last space parts techs. Hover over their techs and it should say something like "We are trying to win the game, thank you". Not sure this applies to vassals, but I guess it does based on what you are saying.

I"m not sure what you mean by they don't need anything from you...that does not make sense to me. They will either trade their techs or they won't . They would never NOT accept the techs you have that they don't ..whether gifted or traded for something.

If running corps, you should be in Free Market. Maintenance cost will still be significantly higher overseas, but Free Market and CHs will help a lot.

hmmm...techs not appearing on the right side of trade screen? That sounds very odd to me. Are you sure that they don't already have the techs.

I've never seen anything like that. A save or screenshots would help. Diplo dialogue screen and trade info screen

 

[Tobiyogi]

Sorry, save game is already erased. I am quite sure that Mansa could not have those techs because I was commanding him all the time what to research. And he would have given me his tech (ecology for ex.), but the ones I already had (like computers, radio) didn't pop up on my side of the trading screen. also for the other vassals. there were times where i could not "give" them anything, even though they didn't even have Steampower. that's why I thought about trading limit or maybe it has to somethng to do with the brokering. Lain in his videos speaks sometimes about trade limit but it seems rather to apply to the amount what I can get from others and not to what I can give away.

What means CHs? ... custom house probably

 

[lymond]

Courthouses

Vassals can trade with each other and with other AIs (you can prevent this though if you wish). An AI like Mansa will trade freely with anyone unless you block it, so you will find him often catching up faster than you expect. Sometimes in a matter of a turn or two, when AIs finish what they are teching or you have gifted them some techs, they will trade around several techs among themselves...so what you think they did not have they now have quickly.

AIs have trade caps, except Mansa. That is why you want to limit what you trade for during the game, like those small early techs like the religious ones and archery. Trade for key techs, tech the rest yourself.

 

[Fippy]

Could be confirmed via "can research" in the tech screenie?
(if Mansa or other vassals already picked up a tech)

I doubt techs would just disappear from trading, never have seen or read about that.
No tech brokering is not complicated, cannot trade techs away that were not self-researched.
Also AIs will not accept techs if they are close to completing them (so they can keep the benefit of trading with them).

 

[ArchGhost]

Your Vassals always trade techs. This is an exception to WFYABTA and all attitude based thresholds. They are flagged to trade as if Friendly IIRC even if they aren't.

If you don't have the tech up for trade in the window on your side, it just means Mansa already has it. He traded or acquired them elsewhere before you could trade them to him. Mansa is a prolific trader and excellent techer so it's not unlikely especially as the game goes late and he racks up AI era bonuses.

If the techs were still up in the Foreign Diplomacy window as him needing them (under "Can Research" or "Wants" for Mansa) but not in the trade window, the only explanation is a bug or possible mod rule if you are using anything like that. No Brokering/Tech Trading will shows your techs you have up on him under "Can't Trade."

 

[Olafeson]

Mansa is a prolific trader and excellent techer so it's not unlikely especially as the game goes late and he racks up AI era bonuses.

What and how big are those A.I. era bonuses? do you have a link or would be so kind for quick explanation

 

[Tobiyogi]

In my case, I was the first to have several techs like Computers and Satellites, so it was obvious that even Mansa couldn't have traded for them and he could not have researched them neither, as I was telling him all the time what to go for. Still, those techs or any prerequs did not pop up on my side of the trading window.
I didn't save savegames so it's difficult to show, it's still a bit mysterious to me, but it's ok, the game is over now and when I encounter that again, I will make some screenshots.

 

[ArchGhost]

What and how big are those A.I. era bonuses? do you have a link or would be so kind for quick explanation

Sorry, @Olafeson I've been spotty around the forums that last month or two.

According to this chart:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/difficulty-levels-spreadsheet.158130/

AIs on Deity get a 5% cost on tech handicap per technology era they reach, if I'm reading that correctly (iAiPerEraModifier). Green are player modifiers, Yellow are AI, and white appear to be barb related

AIs tech faster and faster as the game goes on and they reach new eras, a feedback loop of sorts. This is why Deity games tend to not last much longer than the early 300s left to only AIs doing stuff. Hope this was what you were looking for.

This actually the first time I've seen all these handicaps all together in one spot, good snag for the reference material folder!

EDIT: Scroll down a bit, and there's a post for the BTS version. Apparently the top one is for Warlords.