Some random obervations from the streams

[Zanteogo]

Crosbowman man have 30 strenght and 40 range atack really.

same bulhorsehocky like civ 5 why bother with melee units just spam archers and crosbowman and conquer the world. No tactics.

How hard is it to make range units only have 50% of their range strenght so if they get atacked they get trashed

I noticed the crazy high melee strength of ranged units also. Seemed somewhat unbalanced.

 

[pietro1990]

I noticed the crazy high melee strength of ranged units also. Seemed somewhat unbalanced.

Well this happenned in civ 5 When they give the crosbowman a strenght of 13 wich resulted in ignoring pikemen and spamming crosbowman man only get iron for frigates. use horses to capture a city.


I made a mod that gave crosbowman man strenght 9 it is really balanced. no more spamming crosbowman man and atacking someone you actually need to move better.

watch this lets play how to get domination in civ 5

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Crosbowman man have 30 strenght and 40 range atack really.

same bulhorsehocky like civ 5 why bother with melee units just spam archers and crosbowman and conquer the world. No tactics.

How hard is it to make range units only have 50% of their range strenght so if they get atacked they get trashed

It shouldn't be 50%, because civ6 doesn't work like that civ 6 combat is all about +- not x/%

But they should probably be 20-30 lower melee than the typical melee units of the time (as opposed to the 10-20 they are now)

 

[BigChiefLizzy]

I and a few others were reporting T140 ish wins on standard speed in the first couple of days... with one of the affinity victories. That was how grossly unbalanced that game was and still is. But it wasnt due to Eurekas it was due to trade routes and no efficient rex limiter.

The difficulty can affect speed both ways. Maybe more units will be required and it will slow us down. Or maybe it will allow us to capture better cities. Who knows. Fact is, unhindered the tech rate is too good. These players are inexperienced relative to civ6 and while some of the mechanics translate over Im seeing their video as an uneducated attempt. There are no timings and careful micromanagement involved and a lot of them just try things out.

Nothing wrong with that but if people think this level of play is already at good efficiency level then they are deeply deluded. Once everybody starts taking a more efficient approach to the game and figures the metagame the turn times will drop even furher. And if the current result are already seen as too fast its natural to imagine it may cause a balance problem.

What is an 'affinity victory'? Is that the cultural/religious type? But ok point taken, if people are 'experimenting' and getting T140 wins even on Prince I admit tech costs need boosting a lot, especially if Eurekas were not used. As to rex limiting, yes my first thought having seen a few vids is I may as well spam settlers as quickly as possible. As a science district + library will take ages to build I may as well grab every lux+strategy resource I can, the capital can then regrow while I build districts.

 

[Acken]

What is an 'affinity victory'? Is that the cultural/religious type? But ok point taken, if people are 'experimenting' and getting T140 wins even on Prince I admit tech costs need boosting a lot, especially if Eurekas were not used. As to rex limiting, yes my first thought having seen a few vids is I may as well spam settlers as quickly as possible. As a science district + library will take ages to build I may as well grab every lux+strategy resource I can, the capital can then regrow while I build districts.

Hmmm I was talking about Civ BE in that sentence...

 

[Disgustipated]

Just started on Marb's youtube videos right now, I watched 19 of Quill's. I'm still early on in Marb's though but I am somewhat relieved it's not going as easy for him as for Quill. 3 civilizations declared war on him, and he's currently at war with 4 civilizations. This is actually pretty significant. I never see this in Prince level games in Civ5. I was concerned the AI was too docile as in Quill's Rome game where I felt Kongo should have declared war on him. Of course a human player can handled 4 civilizations at once especially when they are as far away as they are in his game, but I still like to see it. The AI was too docile in Civ5 and BE.

 

[pietro1990]

Just started on Marb's youtube videos right now, I watched 19 of Quill's. I'm still early on in Marb's though but I am somewhat relieved it's not going as easy for him as for Quill. 3 civilizations declared war on him, and he's currently at war with 4 civilizations. This is actually pretty significant. I never see this in Prince level games in Civ5. I was concerned the AI was too docile as in Quill's Rome game where I felt Kongo should have declared war on him. Of course a human player can handled 4 civilizations at once especially when they are as far away as they are in his game, but I still like to see it. The AI was too docile in Civ5 and BE.

Link to channel please?

 

[Acken]

Just started on Marb's youtube videos right now, I watched 19 of Quill's. I'm still early on in Marb's though but I am somewhat relieved it's not going as easy for him as for Quill. 3 civilizations declared war on him, and he's currently at war with 4 civilizations. This is actually pretty significant. I never see this in Prince level games in Civ5. I was concerned the AI was too docile as in Quill's Rome game where I felt Kongo should have declared war on him. Of course a human player can handled 4 civilizations at once especially when they are as far away as they are in his game, but I still like to see it. The AI was too docile in Civ5 and BE.

None of the AI do anything to him. Which is not too surprising since it's Prince. But their attacks are really pathetic with like 3 warriors.

 

[phryxolydian]

They really need to implement some better coding for the AI to DoW you. Even at Prince, having neighboring AIs declare joint wars on the player and his/her reaction being "whatever " while only having 3 archers to defend is surely not what Firaxis had in mind?

I just watched Rome's "scary DoW" on Filthy's Kongo game and he defended with just 2 archers. Shouldn't the AI have a bare minimum of units to consider DoWing another AI/player? Obviously taking into consideration the strength (tech) of its units compared to the target as well. Well, at least the AI seems to be more aggressive and willing to declare wars (early on, which is all I've seen) but even so, these DoWs are laughable.

 

[Ulthwithian]

What i noticed is that youre technology goes faster then the policy tree(civic tree) it should be the other way around...

Is there any reason for this to be true? Why should Civics be achieved faster than Technology? (I don't disagree with you, necessarily. I'm wondering why you say 'should'.)

 

[Acken]

They really need to implement some better coding for the AI to DoW you. Even at Prince, having neighboring AIs declare joint wars on the player and his/her reaction being "whatever " while only having 3 archers to defend is surely not what Firaxis had in mind?

I just watched Rome's "scary DoW" on Filthy's Kongo game and he defended with just 2 archers. Shouldn't the AI have a bare minimum of units to consider DoWing another AI/player? Obviously taking into consideration the strength (tech) of its units compared to the target as well. Well, at least the AI seems to be more aggressive and willing to declare wars (early on, which is all I've seen) but even so, these DoWs are laughable.

Maybe its still a work in progress. War preparation is something they had already made for civ5. I'd find it poor from Firaxis to come with something worse. Here is how it works in civ5 :
1. The Diplomacy AI decides someone needs to be killed and makes a request of an attack.
2. The AI choses a city as the target of that attack and a city to muster forces
3. It increases the weights of units production until all slot of an Army are filled. An army is 8 units in Prince I think and 16 in Deity.
4. Once the army is filled and the war still valid it moves toward the targeted city target and declare war.

Joint wars are an exception as those have a tendency to make the AI skip the preparation for one of the two members. One of the main reasons why in civ5 a double DoW often resulted in only one AI being threatening for the early part of the war.

The part about judging whether an attack is a good idea or not is done at the diplomacy AI stage before the request of an attack.

 

[phryxolydian]

Yeah, I didn't know the exact steps it took but that's more like it. If they somehow have managed to go backwards with this, simplifying it and dumbing it down, it certainly is poor on their part. So far war preparations are something of the past because the AI declares on a whim, it seems. One turn they congratulate you for whatever their agenda is. Next turn you plant a city close-ish to them, they dislike it and let you know. Three turns later they decide they've had enough of you so they DoW.

Also, in Filthy's video Rome made yet another comment about Filthy settling more cities while being at war. Like, sorry?

 

[elitetroops]

Maybe its still a work in progress. War preparation is something they had already made for civ5. I'd find it poor from Firaxis to come with something worse. Here is how it works in civ5 :
1. The Diplomacy AI decides someone needs to be killed and makes a request of an attack.
2. The AI choses a city as the target of that attack and a city to muster forces
3. It increases the weights of units production until all slot of an Army are filled. An army is 8 units in Prince I think and 16 in Deity.
4. Once the army is filled and the war still valid it moves toward the targeted city target and declare war.

Joint wars are an exception as those have a tendency to make the AI skip the preparation for one of the two members. One of the main reasons why in civ5 a double DoW often resulted in only one AI being threatening for the early part of the war.

The part about judging whether an attack is a good idea or not is done at the diplomacy AI stage before the request of an attack.

It was pretty much like that in IV as well. They declared war the same turn their stack entered your borders.

In Marbs game, England and Norway declare a joint war against him, but neither of them send any units at all in the first few turns. It takes several turns before the first English units appear to threaten his cities and Norway never sends any units at all. My guess is that the AI just randomly decides when to trade with other AI and joint wars are treated the same way.

The worst part, Marb stays mainly defensive and kills maybe 5-6 English units, then she offers him a city+lots of gold for peace...

 

[Acken]

My guess is that the AI just randomly decides when to trade with other AI and joint wars are treated the same way.

Interesting possibility.

 

[narmox]

Another random observation (or perhaps another UX/UI peeve):

When an AI offers a luxury trade deal, there is no way to know how it will affect your empire.. I've noticed in the Marbs LP, the AI often trades for luxuries and right on the start of his following turn, he gets messages about needing amenities. Perhaps this is why the AI is offering money to get more lux in return, and deprive Marb's Greece of some amenities.. Doesn't seem like lacking amenities (or being always around 0 surplus) is such a big issue at Prince though.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Another random observation (or perhaps another UX/UI peeve):

When an AI offers a luxury trade deal, there is no way to know how it will affect your empire.. I've noticed in the Marbs LP, the AI often trades for luxuries and right on the start of his following turn, he gets messages about needing amenities. Perhaps this is why the AI is offering money to get more lux in return, and deprive Marb's Greece of some amenities.. Doesn't seem like lacking amenities (or being always around 0 surplus) is such a big issue at Prince though.

It's nearly impossible to predict the effect of luxury trade over amenities in each particular city. For example, if you trade your second resource for one you don't have yet AND you have 8+ cities, you don't get extra amenities, you get more flexibility, so they are redistributed between cities. I don't think it could be displayed in any sane way.

 

[narmox]

It's nearly impossible to predict the effect of luxury trade over amenities in each particular city. For example, if you trade your second resource for one you don't have yet AND you have 8+ cities, you don't get extra amenities, you get more flexibility, so they are redistributed between cities. I don't think it could be displayed in any sane way.

Quite correct actually.. So perhaps that is the bigger issue, just like there's no city list, units list, etc.

 

[elitetroops]

Marb's problem is that he seems to think only one copy of every luxury is needed and he always trades away excess luxuries. Sometimes 3-4 luxuries he has multiple copies of for only one luxury+some gold.

But I agree that there should be some way to tell how many of your luxuries are actually being used by your cities. The other thing that really would help is tooltips when selecting policies for actual effects. You can calculate them on your own, but it seems like a lot of unnecessary work. On the other hand, maybe they think it would make all decisions too obvious if they gave you the exact numbers for how each policy would affect your empire.

And while complaining about how things are displayed in the interface, why does the city yields in the lower right corner show the total production of food as +xx? That's a totally meaningless number until you subtract the amount of food eaten by the population. Not even that is the whole truth, as this can still be modified by housing shortage. I'd much prefer that the number shown was the food surplus, not the food production. Haven't quite decided yet if I'd want it to take into account housing modifiers as well.

 

[jekke]

It's nearly impossible to predict the effect of luxury trade over amenities in each particular city. For example, if you trade your second resource for one you don't have yet AND you have 8+ cities, you don't get extra amenities, you get more flexibility, so they are redistributed between cities. I don't think it could be displayed in any sane way.

You certainly have a point here but then this observation almost entirely ruins any justification for the whole system of amenities and their distributions, which is thus turned into a one big black box, and players have no clue what is going on there.

 

[narmox]

Agreed with both previous posts.



Another observation not about UI this time lol, about overall strategy. Going to echo a youtuber comment from the Marbs LP, paraphrasing:

It might be better to build out your cities first and mark your territory before starting to build districts. This way you have a better idea of what districts you can build and where, to maximize their effect.

Otherwise you end up in the mid-to-late game with districts costing a LOT and being more limited in what you can build as a result.