some thoughts

[Valkrionn]

Actually, pretty sure that he meant the demon barbarians, not the Sheiam.

 

[xienwolf]

Aye, I meant Demons. Sheiam spawns depend on buildings which you have. Need both a Planar Gate and a Grove for Manticores, since most people don't bother building Groves unless Neutral, and even then only in one city for their 3 druids, I bet you just didn't have one.

 

[Sarisin]

Aye, I meant Demons. Sheiam spawns depend on buildings which you have. Need both a Planar Gate and a Grove for Manticores, since most people don't bother building Groves unless Neutral, and even then only in one city for their 3 druids, I bet you just didn't have one.

You are wrong. I had ONE Grove. I built one in my city that I used to produce military units. Its dumb, but when I designate a city for military production, I build EVERY military building in it regardless of whether it does anything or not. Even for the Jotnar.

I should have built one in each city with a Planar Gate. Too bad there isn't a Wonder that will give you a Grove in each city similar to the Catacombs.

The Planar Gates are a little wonky anyway. I try to have one in each of my Sheaim cities. However, some seem to produce many units while others don't produce any, even with the necessary buildings in the city. Still, I think you get plenty of creatures...except for the Manticores. As mentioned, sometimes too many of the lesser guys.

Next time I play the Sheaim, I'll make sure every city with a Planar Gate has the required building for each creature.

 

[stupidnewbie]

In my last Sheaim game, I had an army of ~30 manticores. It was neato, until I hit 100AC, at which point I had an army of considerably fewer manticores and two fewer dragons. I really didn't have any problem spawning them after I built as many cities as I could and used the stonefire guild to build gates and groves in them.

I have decided, however, never to build the catacomb wonder as Sheaim ever again. My manticore army was rivaled only by my army of useless witches.

 

[WarKirby]

It was neato, until I hit 100AC, at which point I had an army of considerably fewer manticores and two fewer dragons.

Manticores are alive? That doesn't seem right.

Also, dragons really need to be immune to armageddon.

 

[Earthling]

I'm actually a little curious - why is it that Agares' spawns get SO much experience? Not from killing AI units, just from spawning. Maybe it's difficulty related, since I know Deity AI gets tons themselves anyway. They have no promos when they first spawn, but invariably a turn later they're combat 5 + fear + maybe something else. I think that's why the manticores own everyone - I've also never seen AI really build Pax Diabolicus.

As for strategy - I never have had problems as good civs myself, only a handful of games for experience, so maybe I've never seen the AC pushed up too early. I've avoided Wrath + Iras so far, obviously no reason to let it go that far when I'm good, haven't played a Sheiam or Armeggedon driven evil game yet. But anyway, here's the strategy I find quite effective:
Banish mages at your borders - along with the archers you naturally have there can damage any stray demon that spawns. T3 units with demon-slaying are usually enough to take anything normal down after that.

And again I'm awaiting WarKirby's Monstrous Creatures, should be fun so keep it up man!

 

[xienwolf]

Bonus for being non-Human based on Difficulty level, and bonus for being Demons based on a combo of Difficulty level and current AC. The idea is that Hell is a battleground, and as the AC goes up, the link between the worlds becomes stronger and thus able to support the more experienced and stronger units from Hell, which subsequently crush all the smaller rivals who might try to stop them from going to this new playground.

 

[stupidnewbie]

Manticores are alive? That doesn't seem right.

Also, dragons really need to be immune to armageddon.

They're beast units and they don't get a demon or undead promotion, so yes, armageddon slays them. Maybe beasts should be immune since there aren't that many of them and they tend to be dragons or manticores. Or heavily promoted spiders, I guess...

 

[Sarisin]

They're beast units and they don't get a demon or undead promotion, so yes, armageddon slays them. Maybe beasts should be immune since there aren't that many of them and they tend to be dragons or manticores. Or heavily promoted spiders, I guess...

Which TWO dragons did you have? Abashi and Acheron?

It is bad luck that you lost both of them. I thought AC 100 leaves you with something like 50% of your Hero units.

What always hurts me is when I lose a Beastmaster I brought up through the ranks from Scout with 300 XP, but get to keep one I just built with 9 XP. I hate losing heroes, but sometimes switch to another religion to build those not built yet. Worse, for me, is the uber-Veteran units that are killed by AC 100.

AC 100 is another reason to beeline Feral Bond and get The Baron. If you can manage to keep at least one werewolf, preferably the Baron, after Armageddon hits, you can produce more.

Again, I can get the rationale on the promotions for Demon spawn (even at Prince they come into the world with 5-6 promotions) and it is a challenge for the Human player to deal with. However, AI civs cannot cope and are quickly mowed down. When the Manticores et al start coming it is time to forget about protecting your improvements (they will be pillaged in no time) and just hunker down in your cities waiting out the soon to be eliminated AI civs.

 

[Quetz]

Aye, I meant Demons. Sheiam spawns depend on buildings which you have. Need both a Planar Gate and a Grove for Manticores, since most people don't bother building Groves unless Neutral, and even then only in one city for their 3 druids, I bet you just didn't have one.

I built Groves in about 10 cities I had Gates in and got 2 manticores over 30 turns or so. They do seem slow, but that just might be an impression, I guess. Though I was getting lesser spawns out the wazoo. Got only one Minotaur over that time, but they are garbage anyways, as I mentioned earlier. For the tech required. Mino's should at least be able to use weapons imo.

Another small thing I forgot: Rituals which increase the AC only seem to do so the first time they are cast. This counts for Purge the Unfaithful (which really shouldnt increase it anyways imo) and Elegy of the Sheiam, which kind of ruins the point of it.

 

[stupidnewbie]

Yeah, I had the red and the black dragons. The black one was only about a dozen turns old. Guess I should have waited... not that it really mattered, because at that point, the infernals were the only other civ left. Also, dragons don't start with the hero promotion... not sure if that's relevant to armageddon survival or not.

 

[stupidnewbie]

Also, yeah, the demon civ seems overly powerful. I've found that now when I'm playing as sheaim or infernals, I actually try to prevent the spread of hell terrain because otherwise the game ends up being too easy. Archos was dominating early in that last game, but they had bradeline's well and I saw they had no religion, so I gave them AV. Hilarity ensued.

...especially when someone summoned the mercurians and a bunch of civs dogpiled on me. The only city I had on their continent was next to the well in the middle of demon territory. They sent ~5 armies at me, but none of them arrived. I guess it also didn't help that the barbarian civ was spawning stacks of beastmasters all over the newly unoccupied territory.

 

[Vehem]

EDIT: Just read the first page, didn't see the second

 

[xienwolf]

Firefox Autopager plugin + 40 posts per page setting on CFC account = TEH WIN