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[Cyberstar]

Where are the labor unions?

It just occurred to me that there are no labor unions in Civ4 and there should be. I'm not a real fan of unions, but they did play a major role in the development of many societies in the last century.

There should be a tech [labor unions] at the least. The current tech tree goes [economics] to [corporation] and stops. Another line goes like this [astronomy] to [scientific method] to [communism] and stops. There is a perfect bridge opportunity to connect it like this: [corporation] to [labor unions] to [communism]. This tech could reduce the benefit of factories (25%), but give a bonus to happiness (+1 in all cities). It would be good if it were somehow optional (for Wal-Mart fans). I guess you don't have to research the tech.

There could even be a civic for it in the Labor Civic section which would decrease productivity and/or commerce a little, but give some kind of benefit to happiness. In fact, when the get too big and powerful they can have a really negative effect on commerce. I would alter the Labor Civics this way. Well, I'm sure sure how I would alter it, but a Labor Union Civic would come after Emancipation or it could be built in somehow by others more creative than myself.

The idea could even be incorporated into the UN by giving it a charter vote that would force countries to adopt labor unions (and the advantages/disadvantages that go with them). [Shoot, the country I'm living in even has a sex-workers union thanks to the UN.]

If someone should mod this, please do it in such a way that I can still play a religion mod (abbamouse) at the same time.

 

[Seven05]

Not a bad idea really, you could give it something like emmancipation has, a penalty for not selecting it once it is available. The civic itself could provide no bonuses or penalties (aside from upkeep) and that would be bad enough. But, with both emmancipation and labor unions you'd need a way to cancel out the negative effect of emmancipation once labor unions were discovered or you'd need to move labor unions over to an economic civic.

 

[lost_civantares]

Keep in mind though that labor unions have really only been around for about 100 years, and civilzation spans thousands of years.

Additionally keep in mind that a theocratic king would have little use for labor unions, whips would most cirtainly be in order.

 

[Cyberstar]

Keep in mind though that labor unions have really only been around for about 100 years, and civilzation spans thousands of years.

Additionally keep in mind that a theocratic king would have little use for labor unions, whips would most cirtainly be in order.

Yes, you are right. But lots of techs in Civ have only been around for a relatively short period of time. The same can be said of some of the civics. One of the fun parts of the game is how we can mix and match modern concepts with archaic ones.

 

[Thalassicus]

The Environmentalism civic, for example. That economic system hasn't yet been implimented in the real world...although it's starting to be. Markets of tradeable pollution credits have been in use for a decade now, and could expand to many other fields of industry like water and utilities.

 

[TylerDurdon]

Keep in mind though that labor unions have really only been around for about 100 years, and civilzation spans thousands of years.

Yeah!!!! and tanks have been around for roughly 70 years... and yet their in!!

I'm not that much of a BIG union fans, even if where I live it has the HIGHEST % in the world of unionize labor!!! But it has done a lot to maintain a middle class, which is needed for a consumers society like ours!!!! Eventhought over time they tend to become corporation of their own, making their wealth over the poor people they're supposed to defend and becoming more and more greedy like the monsters they are supose to fight!!!

 

[calyth]

I'm not that much of a BIG union fans, even if where I live it has the HIGHEST % in the world of unionize labor!!! But it has done a lot to maintain a middle class, which is needed for a consumers society like ours!!!! Eventhought over time they tend to become corporation of their own, making their wealth over the poor people they're supposed to defend and becoming more and more greedy like the monsters they are supose to fight!!!

Amen! I'm glad someone in Canada thinks this way. Every time I express my views on unions, I either get shot down, or people say that my views are imported (I'm Chinese-Canadian).
But I do think they do deserve a place somewhere in a civic. If the corporation is a tech, and we have plenty of city improvements that rakes in the dough, a labour union civic could become one that slows productivity/commerse a bit and increase happiness.

 

[la cosa nostra]

Unions are great, if there weren't unions, most western nations would be like the USA.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Their was a Labour Union tech back in Civ2 (and Civ?) - it allowed Mechanized Infantry

 

[Cyberstar]

Their was a Labour Union tech back in Civ2 (and Civ?) - it allowed Mechanized Infantry

So it would seem that this wasn't just an oversight in the development. I still think it would be a good addition to civ4.

 

[Carewolf]

You could let factories produce 1 or 2 unhappy faces, that only labor unions could remove. I am not sure they should reduce production, because they never did in real life, but they might cost a lot of upkeep.

 

[warpstorm]

Unions are great, if there weren't unions, most western nations would be like the USA.

What a silly statement. Many Americans are members of unions.

 

[petey]

What a silly statement. Many Americans are members of unions.

Actually, labour union membership in the US is at the lowest point since the Great Depression. I can't recall the actual number, but I think it's only 10-15% of people are members of a union now. This is down from about 40% at their peak.

 

[Amelas]

It's a good idea to include unions in some form or another. It would have to give something a hell of a lot better than a smiley per city to justify 25% production loss nationwide though heheh

 

[CVDon]

Ohhhhh YES!!! And when you develop Labor Unions you can build "Union Organizers" and send them to any city in any Civ even if you do not have Open Borders. Then you use them to reduce happiness in that city. Cultural sneak attack!

 

[bio_hazard]

Unions would be a cool mod- great idea. Maybe it could grant extra happiness (or negate industrial unhappiness) in cities with factories, and maybe add a health point as well (by increasing factory saftey standards, health coverage). The balancing negative aspects could be a high civic upkeep, higher cost to rush production, and maybe less effective trade missions by great merchants.

 

[TyranusBonehead]

Naaaaah:thumbdown

 

[Crimso]

I'm Canadian, so yeah, I'm quite pro-union. But adding such a concept to Civ IV? Your proposal to implement it is so asinine I very much doubt you understand what makes the stand-alone version of Civ IV so great.

 

[spankey]

Unions are great, if there weren't unions, most western nations would be like the USA.

To add to what Warpstorm has said already--Many Americans are members of Labor unions.
Unfortunately, the businesses with the highest percentage of unionized labor (Airline and Automobile) also are the ones in trouble and unable to effectively compete with international competition.
Outside of industry, the largest sector for unionized labor in america is the governemental employees and teachers. Those sectors are certainly not known for cost effective management or productivity improvements.

 

[Andygal]

I'm also Canadian and quite pro-union (though I do think they get ridiculous on occassion with thier demands for huge pay hikes.

I don't really think anybody's come up with a proper way to represent them in Civ, it might require a lot more then "just" adding a new civic, like modding a bunch of other stuff....