Something significant is missing...

[KingCruz]

Sounds like a beauracracy to me...

 

[Seven05]

The thing to remember with Civ games it that a) they're a game, and b) while they can be inspired by history they need not mimic it. Take any of the existing civics as an example, they're based on the theory of that particular civic, not so much what has happened in history. So to properly incorporate labor unions as a civic or even a building that allows for some benefits you need to look at what they are supposed to do regardless of what history has shown in either isolated or widespread circumstances.

If you want to follow history unions are really a wash and can be ignored. While they improve work quality and pay for the working masses they increase overhead for the companies and add a lot of legal red-tape to society. So while "Joe" makes more money because he's in a unions, he has to pay more money for everything he wants because those are also made by union workers or companies that have been affected by laws brought about by union workers. But this game isn't about what history was is is about what history could have been.

So what is the utopian union supposed to provide?

1. A fair salary based on the work performed (happy people)

2. Safer work conditions (reduced building unhealthyness)

3. A counter-weight to the coproate machine's influence (Medium/High civic upkeep or perhaps removing the free trade route provided by the corporation tech)

4. A boost in productivity as a result of happy, safe workers. (Small production boost, maybe 10%)

To maintain game balance all you really need are some "penalties" that keep it from becoming too good. If it's a civic part of the penalty is not receiving the bonuses from another civic in the same group. If it's a building, part of the penalty is the cost/time required to build it. In most cases that should be plenty. After all a courthouse brings lawyers with it and yet their is no penalty for letting those demons run loose in your cities

 

[Yushal]

The Environmentalism civic, for example. That economic system hasn't yet been implimented in the real world...although it's starting to be. Markets of tradeable pollution credits have been in use for a decade now, and could expand to many other fields of industry like water and utilities.

WHAT?!?

Where can I find info on this, please?

 

[troytheface]

labor unions a wash? Yes besides stopping children from working in american factories- and providing rights for workers.

 

[Thalassicus]

The Environmentalism civic, for example. That economic system hasn't yet been implemented in the real world...although it's starting to be. Markets of tradable pollution credits have been in use for a decade now, and could expand to many other fields of industry like water and utilities.

WHAT?!?

Where can I find info on this, please?

It's a little off topic, but you can find a lot of information with a Google search on "cap and trade".

Here's a detailed article about it: View attachment CreditMarkets.zip

And an excerpt:

Spoiler :

Economists have long argued that for many social and environmental problems, economic machines that direct human competitive and acquisitive instincts toward a global good could achieve greater progress at a quicker pace and a lower price than the “command and control” methods traditionally used by governments. After a long period of skepticism, many regulators, international institutions and philanthropies are now embracing this idea. Markets have been created to slow greenhouse warming, safeguard watersheds, halt over fishing and protect endangered species.

When they are well designed and carefully policed, proponents argue, such markets can become as efficient, self-sustaining and adept at handling risks and uncertainties as a stock exchange. Trading systems make it easier to reconcile the wide range of values that people hold, by letting them express their preferences through a common currency: money. But even among environmental economists, the approach has its doubters, who observe that the details cloaked in the essential qualifiers “well designed” and “carefully policed” are devilish indeed.

Much of the current enthusiasm for market-based regulation stems from the results of a pilot program launched in the U.S. in 1990. Congress amended the Clean Air Act that year to set up a market for the permits that power plants must have to release sulfur dioxide (SO2)—a major culprit in acid rain—out of their smokestacks. The Environmental Protection Agency began holding annual auctions to sell the pollution permits. Federal law caps the total number of tons of SO2 emissions that the EPA can sell permits for and lowers the cap periodically; the laws of supply and demand determine the price at which permits for one ton trade.

Regulators hoped that the worst polluters would make relatively affordable upgrades to lower their emissions, so that they could then sell their excess permits at a profit to cleaner plants, for whom further upgrades would be prohibitively expensive. The market would thus direct investments to where they could do the most good for the environment.

Similar regulatory markets have already been set up for emissions regulation, watershed, habitat, and sustainable fisheries in the US, EU, Australia, and New Zealand, among other countries. There's potential for more than just the regulation of pollution, such as in the farming industry.

The thing to remember is that economic change comes very, very slowly. Applying new principles (like those of Adam Smith or Keynes) took a long time to be adopted worldwide. It's not an eternal process though, just look at the success of fuel-efficient cars (like hybrids or smaller vehicles) in the past decade. Ten years ago hybrids were nothing but concepts, and now they're in mass production at a price almost as affordable as a standard vehicle. Market demand can do amazing things for advancement of an industry.

 

[calyth]

You could let factories produce 1 or 2 unhappy faces, that only labor unions could remove. I am not sure they should reduce production, because they never did in real life, but they might cost a lot of upkeep.

Don't know what you've seen, but I didn't find productive people working in a unionized supermarket. And at least in Canada, they are usually antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic, and end up hindering things more than anything else. At the very same time, I was earning about $8.75/hr while working along side with other unionized workers doing the same job at upwards of $20/hr.
So I do agree that reducing some production would be accurate.

 

[Carewolf]

Don't know what you've seen, but I didn't find productive people working in a unionized supermarket. And at least in Canada, they are usually antagonistic for the sake of being antagonistic, and end up hindering things more than anything else. At the very same time, I was earning about $8.75/hr while working along side with other unionized workers doing the same job at upwards of $20/hr.
So I do agree that reducing some production would be accurate.

This is the same everywhere they have cheap "slaves" like you. The "old" people will screw you over. It has nothing to do with unions. It is the exact same in every place, and has alwasy been that way.

If you look at the results of the introductions of unions in their classic environment in factories. The result was a actual a small increase in productivity.

It is one of the paradoxes in economy that companies in the early 20th century with their focus on productivitiy actually decreased it by ruining worker moral and health.

 

[john10235]

Labour Union...sounds quite identical to the Guilds to me =.="

 

[Polopapolo]

How about a union leader as a great person or a city specialist?

Specialist:
+ happy face (job security)
+ health (job safety)
+ gold (better income for workers)

GP:
Can create a national union --> more production when at war!
Could be something like the "mobilization" option in Civ III ?

I'd leave out the production issue for union specialists as it is yet unproven if unions help or hinder production. Has more to do with worker motivation IMO.

 

[Yushal]

This is the same everywhere they have cheap "slaves" like you. The "old" people will screw you over. It has nothing to do with unions. It is the exact same in every place, and has alwasy been that way.

If you look at the results of the introductions of unions in their classic environment in factories. The result was a actual a small increase in productivity.

It is one of the paradoxes in economy that companies in the early 20th century with their focus on productivitiy actually decreased it by ruining worker moral and health.

Of course they want him to do all the work, the dirty scab!

Thanks for the article link Thall

 

[patweb]

They have communism, isn't that close enough?

I don't want my civs yelling "Hoffman for President" or going on strike.

 

[drjones]

Personally I would see this as as two buildings:

Union Hall:
No production change
+% happyness
+% health bonus based on gold income for the city (like the % theatres add to happy if culture is high)
increase to city maintenance from legal wrangling/govt inefficency

Wal-Mart:
+1 happy (trailer park folks get DVD players)
-1 health (No health care, workers can only afford cheap food)
+10% production for efficiency sake
Increased maintenace from damage to local tax base and increased public services useage by workers.

Of course the wal-mart model is incredibly situation specific, if it was not for the totalitatarian govenerment in China and the US governements dedication to free trade at any cost Wal-Mart would not be the major player that it is at this point. Perhaps 'Union busting shop' instead.

This way the Social Democrats and the Young Republicans can both be happy.

-drjones

ps. I'm not unionized myself and don't feel the need to be but add to the list of 'small effects' of unions: We don't work 7 days a week for 12 hours a day! Well at least we get payed more for it.. well until GWB has his way

 

[Reignking]

Unions should lead to high inflation and inefficiency...

 

[Napo981]

Unions are great, if there weren't unions, most western nations would be like the USA.