Somnium discussion

[Sto]

Somnium can't be played against other players only against AIs in hotseat games.

I've not implemented the game for hotseat games. This implementation require some special functions and it's hard to define. I will take a look at that when upgrading the game in 10 days, but i can't promise anything (hide the screen for confirmation and about all the functions that involve the interface might be upgraded). It was not hurry for the first release, beside the amount of work.

Tcho !

 

[Nikis-Knight]

While I agree with most of what Kael says, I would like to see the lower-value cards you and the AI have banked be visible in some way, for two reasons: One, this is information you really should have ready access to (especially your own bank), and two, the computer WILL use this information against you when using the Fool (i.e., if you only have the 7 of Cups, but have the 6 and 7 of Angels, and the computer has neither Cups nor Angels, it will take the Cups from you).

The computer players' memory is limited by difficulty levels, I believe.

 

[woodelf]

The computer's memory is better than mine in most cases.

 

[Jabie]

Any chance of adding a "Somnium for fun" option into CIV4GameOptionInfos.xml, so you can play Somnium for fun without it having any effect on your money or reputation?


Also, can you change the playmat to include transparent versions of the suits in each of the slots were the cards are placed. It'll make it easier to spot if you have a particular suit or not at a glance.

 

[woodelf]

When you lose a game the message says that you "loose" 1 Should be lose.

 

[Polobo]

Idea: Having a "steal the draw" action - once per game - where the player can elect to try and steal the current draw. This can only be done once the opponent has ended their turn. The player is required to draw the next card and play it as if it was their turn (death and fool work normally). If the draw is still valid then the player gets all the cards in the draw. If the draw fails then the opponent gets to keep all the cards including the extra/matched card.

 

[xienwolf]

Since all of the cards are visible all of the time, I don't think you need to get too fancy for Hotseat games (screen blanking and whatnot). Just have both players be controlled by the Human, and maybe add a pop-up at the start of each turn stating which player is currently active.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Or rather than a pop-up, which would delay things a bit, have the player whose turn it is have their name highlighted on the right side.

 

[TheJopa]

I have to say once again how brilliant Somnium is.

Lol for house rules! Me and friend will be playing runes civs next game so house rule of no stealing tower might really come in play.

 

[Blackmantle]

@ Sto: Sorry for the confusion and bad choice of words. I didn't mean i experienced it that the bals get more adjustment. I just wanted to give my support to magisters opinion. + Imo Kyleen and Perpy also should be the best players out there on each difficulties as much as it is possible (its a carnival after all and perpy can mindread.) So that you really have to earn that bonus and get hit hard if you don't.

Yea the memory training is a good point but still anoying at times when already early in the morning and after some hours of play... But that can be part of the fun. Given.
And the comment with the money for upkeep was not all that serious.


@ Kael: So it was on intent to make our poor heads hurt. You... are really mean (jk. )


No really, i just made that comment because i thought that the game is still not utterly polished / you still needed feedback on it + you had something like that in mind and because FFH 2 uses another aproach usually (to make the game easier by documentation and comfort functions), but if its intent and part of the game with somnium im very much fine with it. (I don't think i will ever use paper unless its really a game deciding situation on a very hard difficulty. Or if a human oponent whould discernably do the same regularly. Have to try a game at immortal / deity still to see how it plays on that difficulties.) + the game looks really polished if thats on intent.

But if nothing else at least one thing were the AI has a clear advantage.

I have to say that the impact on diplomacy is rather huge at normal speed (if you can win relatively reliable which is possible against some AI or if you reload) since the bonus doesn't run out and stacks. +4 from 4 won games in 120 Turns is really alot for something you only want to have a minor impact. (Akin to trust and can make the difference between even annoyed and pleased quite fast.)
So you might want to limit that one part were it influences the main game. Perhaps it should wear off with time? Or not Stack more than twice?

I find it really hard to reliably! win on Emperor against the conservative AIs (Capria is a real hard contender. Beeri is about on par with me. Kyleen is rather beatable being a bit more prone to risks.). But that must be down the way i play it (which is perhaps a bit prone to gambling). Its definately a big plus that those different leaders play the game differently but all still very good.
Kudos for accomplishing that (and it makes me lose the game once or twice for having to adapt each time i change the oponent. Another sign that its designed very solidly.).

 

[Camber]

I agree, brilliant game. Amazing graphics. The Fools cards are the most exciting aspect of the game; and I've stupidly picked a card with the Fool that was already of the same suit as one drawn, and lost it--that's what I think about when my relations notes say "-1 Learn to play Somnium!"

A little feedback:
I hope you don't have any options that make Somnium completely irrelevant to gameplay (i.e., 0 gold). The +/- 1 to relations is by far my favorite, because it actually *means* something.

I would also ask for an option to bet a larger part of your treasury, up to 10% of the smallest treasury between the two players (i.e., if I have 210 gold and my opponent has 200, the most that could be bet would be 20, not 21).

Like the AI's unwillingness sometimes to trade techs and other items, the AI should probably refuse to play for gold or relations sometimes. (Perhaps if he couldn't afford to lose based on a series of parameters, such as he really hates you and couldn't stand liking you a little more if you were to win).

I am also surprised that none of the leaders are sore losers. Certainly there must be some point at which a leader gets angry. I won today against the Sidar and he had only 16 points (midway through the game he still had zero, when I had stolen his only two cards). Sidar is pretty mellow and introverted, but it seems that there must be some leaders in the game that would bellow at you rather than admire you if that were to occur.

It has been mentioned that this would be a fun thing to do while waiting for other players to finish their turns in MP. Would it be possible to end your turn, and then start a game of Somnium, and then play until everyone else is ready? I wonder if the game could be forfeited without penalty if it is forced to end unfinished because the MP game is moving on to the next turn.

Lastly, and these are the only suggestions that for me are really critical, can the game please be altered to be rated PG? I would like to be able to to introduce it to my kids. The artwork is amazing, and I hate to complain, but the Death card shows female nipples, and if that could be altered it would help a lot. Also, if the expression when you lose could be something less colorful than "Damned!," I would also really appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

[Ksi]

Does difficulty make it harder Blackmantle? I play on deity so I do not know how it is at the lower levels. I won 3/4 so far (lost the money one -- not the relationship.) It is rather funny having Somnium god in the dip. menu.

All I do is play conservatively early game, if I can get 12+ points I do it and no more. Towards the end I always risk it big. If I am behind (especially if death and most of the 7's are taken) then it can payoff very well, especially with the fool cards. Secondly I get less points towards the end of the game (2 or 3.) If I am ahead near the end I keep drawing, never banking unless it is very close and all the fools are gone. This way the AI has less cards to use to catch up.

 

[woodelf]

I think if you lose to a civ they should challenge you for more than 1 as soon as they can.

 

[Blackmantle]

I don't know for sure but it seems to according to other posts here in this thread. So i assume (perhaps the difference between emperor and deity is not so huge as between noble and emperor). And it would make sense. (because it has some impact on the game and getting an easy pass on deity whould seem odd. Currently the impact seems quite hefty if you play really well.)

But you seem to have a much better memory than me even though my ratio is still about 2/3 so a net +.
Good for you. (Or you posess a magic sheet of paper and pencil to help out. )

Another question whould be which AI you play against. They do play very much differently and some are much easier for me to beat than others with a ratio of 7/8 (perhaps thats not anymore so on deity. Haven't played a 0.33 Game on deity yet.).

 

[Chamaedrys]

I love sominum. I hope there will be a stand alone version some day.

 

[Kael]

Lastly, and these are the only suggestions that for me are really critical, can the game please be altered to be rated PG? I would like to be able to to introduce it to my kids. The artwork is amazing, and I hate to complain, but the Death card shows female nipples, and if that could be altered it would help a lot. Also, if the expression when you lose could be something less colorful than "Damned!," I would also really appreciate it.

Thanks!

I never thought about Somnium for kids, it would be a pretty easy game for a kid to pick up and learn some basic numbers and counting.

I won't be changing the art for the death card. I actually thought it was a guy in the picture but now that I look at it Im not sure it its a guy or a girl. I will remove Damned in the next patch though, it just doesn't sound right.

 

[Sto]

Any chance of adding a "Somnium for fun" option into CIV4GameOptionInfos.xml, so you can play Somnium for fun without it having any effect on your money or reputation?

This should come ...

Since all of the cards are visible all of the time, I don't think you need to get too fancy for Hotseat games (screen blanking and whatnot). Just have both players be controlled by the Human, and maybe add a pop-up at the start of each turn stating which player is currently active.

I will do that. According that the players are in the same room, there is no need for pop up i think. Just a longer pause when the screen close. The problem comes from the implementation. I have made a first implementation with player left/right referenced to have a good structure (and prevent a headache ^^). When i will update the code, i will change all and make this dynamic -> allow hotseat games (almost all the screen and half of the interface code need to be updated for that).

I would also ask for an option to bet a larger part of your treasury, up to 10% of the smallest treasury between the two players (i.e., if I have 210 gold and my opponent has 200, the most that could be bet would be 20, not 21).

I will add an option for MP games that allow you to play for a value/point like proposed by Xienwolf. But for SG games, it's intended that the mini-game shouldn't have such an impact on the game itself. And when playing for 1 gold, the AI amount of gold remain unchanged. I let the decision with discussion at Kael which design the game.

It has been mentioned that this would be a fun thing to do while waiting for other players to finish their turns in MP. Would it be possible to end your turn, and then start a game of Somnium, and then play until everyone else is ready? I wonder if the game could be forfeited without penalty if it is forced to end unfinished because the MP game is moving on to the next turn.

The game will continue without problem on the beginning of your next turn. You can pass your turn and play Somnium. If all other players pass, there should have no problem to continue on your next turn (just put on the option minimize popups ^^). Force other players to wait your game to be finished will be endless since they will begin a Somnium game ...

Also, if the expression when you lose could be something less colorful than "Damned!," I would also really appreciate it.

Sorry for the "Damned". Didn't know that it have a bad connotation in English.

I love sominum. I hope there will be a stand alone version some day.

I will try to do that.

Tcho !

 

[uberfish]

if you draw Fool when opponent has no cards in bank, the game says "you cannot take a card TO the opponent", it should be "take a card FROM the opponent"

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Sorry for the "Damned". Didn't know that it have a bad connotation in English.

Anyway it would be the present tense [damn!] that is commonly used.

 

[Zechnophobe]

The only Gripe I'm having with Somnium, is that it seems the Fools are far too strong. Consider that each one is often a 10 to 14 point swing in and of themselves, it seems that most games end up being decided by who draws them.