Soren Johnson's Old World

[Arent11]

Arumba has a stream too: https://www.twitch.tv/arumba07

Thanks.

 

[Airman1991]

What kind of LAN does this game have, do you need two copies to play LAN or can you play with just one.

 

[Kruos]

I am curious about how wars will be handled in multiplayer. I mean, with this order system where players can chain lot of serial orders, I can see some problems occurs if turns are simultaneous. Like we already saw in previous simultaneous TBS game : you click to attack an unit, but in the same time the other player move it so in finé you move in an empty tile.

Will it be a click feast or will there be some constraints, like I dont know, some system that disable simultaneous turn if a war is declared, or other mechanisms maybe?

 

[Sherlock]

I always feel like I'm missing something in these conversations where people say they won't play a game because it's on Epic. It's not even like we're talking on not wanting to switch from games on my PS versus my Xbox. It's all on my PC. It's not Sophie's Choice. It's a toggle.

There's a guy in my neighborhood does house painting. He does a poor job and never returns phone calls, doesn't fix his mistakes. People don't understand why I don't want to do business with him. Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.

 

[Atlas627]

There's a guy in my neighborhood does house painting. He does a poor job and never returns phone calls, doesn't fix his mistakes. People don't understand why I don't want to do business with him. Doesn't seem that hard to understand to me.

Except the analogy doesn't work because 1) the service you are actually getting is not from Epic, but is the game, and 2) playing games through Epic doesn't prevent you from playing other games through other means. Your analogy only works if a game comes out on both platforms, and even then you instead should be comparing it to 2 agents trying to sell the same product, of which you would happily purchase many copies of similar products.

But this game (currently) is not being sold by both agents, so why is the agent enough to dissuade you from buying the product? That's the "missing something" he's talking about. What is the factor that is so strong that it overrides the value of this one product? It certainly isn't any of the things that people seem to say, like the need to "switch over", since you don't need to.

 

[acluewithout]

Saw some live-streams of Old World. Looks really good.

I mean. It looks like Civ 5. It’s like an alternative version of where Civ could have gone if it hadn’t gone down the Civ 6 route.

There’s some learning from Civ 6 I think the game could have benefited from - eg splitting the tech tree instead of just having one tree; reducing movement a bit more.

There’s some stuff that’s just a different take on things, not really better or worse, but still a good take and interesting to see something new - eg specific locations to settle cities.

Then there’s stuff that is genuinely really new and interesting, like order limits.

I’m a bit sorry to see Builders and Scouts etc. I feel like units and unit types are a ripe area for innovation, but OW hasn’t taken up the challenge (and nor has anyone else). I’m also a bit over the pop up Mission / Quests / Events trope.

Anyway. It seems a good take on Historical 4X.

 

[Kwami]

Except the analogy doesn't work because 1) the service you are actually getting is not from Epic, but is the game, and 2) playing games through Epic doesn't prevent you from playing other games through other means. Your analogy only works if a game comes out on both platforms, and even then you instead should be comparing it to 2 agents trying to sell the same product, of which you would happily purchase many copies of similar products.

But this game (currently) is not being sold by both agents, so why is the agent enough to dissuade you from buying the product? That's the "missing something" he's talking about. What is the factor that is so strong that it overrides the value of this one product? It certainly isn't any of the things that people seem to say, like the need to "switch over", since you don't need to.

1. Epic's poor business ethics, such as bribing developers with lower fees to make their games exclusive on Epic's store, even when the game was already available for early access play and pre-orders on Steam and elsewhere. This sucks for the people that expected to play it on Steam and then weren't able to. Examples include Phoenix Point and Metro Exodus. And Epic is still doing this, too. They're going after games that are slated to launch on Steam and GOG and they're offering them funding to pull those releases and to go with Epic for at least one year. That's really poor form.

2. Epic's game client sucks. It's lacking in features compared to the others and it's terrible at resource utilization.

3. Epic is collecting your data. Not just which game you're playing and your hardware configuration, but also things like what media you're streaming. Do you really want yet another company collecting information about you? Isn't Steam bad enough without adding another one?

4. Epic is 40% owned by Tencent, a Chinese company with ties to the Chinese government. Maybe you trust the Chinese government not to misuse any of the data collected by the Epic Store. I sure don't.

Look, I think we all understand why Soren went with Epic. They gave him funding to finish the game and otherwise he might not have been able to finish it at all. But, please understand that some of us aren't going to sign up and install Epic's client just to play this game. I think it's OK for us to express our disappointment in the situation. Epic doesn't need you all to defend them. They're big boys and girls. They can handle some criticism.

If we're all lucky, then Old World will only be exclusive for a year and then we can all play it elsewhere. Ideally, GOG. And hopefully, Soren will have the foresight to make his own mod manager and whatnot so that mods aren't tied to a single platform. It really sucks when you buy a game on GOG and the mods only work in the Steam Workshop, or whatever. We all pay the same price. Let's all get the same features.

 

[footslogger]

I can recommend the stream by Pinstar. He seems to have a much better prior knowledge of how the game works and so his game runs more smoothly and is more informative. It has certainly whetted my appetite for the game, though I prefer to wait until the completed version comes out.

 

[Atlas627]

I appreciate the actual response to what types of things are a big enough deal to not use the Epic Store.

1. Epic's poor business ethics, such as bribing developers with lower fees to make their games exclusive on Epic's store, even when the game was already available for early access play and pre-orders on Steam and elsewhere. This sucks for the people that expected to play it on Steam and then weren't able to. Examples include Phoenix Point and Metro Exodus. And Epic is still doing this, too. They're going after games that are slated to launch on Steam and GOG and they're offering them funding to pull those releases and to go with Epic for at least one year. That's really poor form.

I think this is the most commonly heard complaint, and I don't see any problem with it whatsoever. Why is this a problem?

2. Epic's game client sucks. It's lacking in features compared to the others and it's terrible at resource utilization.

I agree. I don't see why this matters when the game is the part I care about.

3. Epic is collecting your data. Not just which game you're playing and your hardware configuration, but also things like what media you're streaming. Do you really want yet another company collecting information about you? Isn't Steam bad enough without adding another one?

I was not aware of this, but I don't really care either. If I had nobody collecting this type of data from me, then I would care. But going from 100 to 101 doesn't really bug me.

4. Epic is 40% owned by Tencent, a Chinese company with ties to the Chinese government. Maybe you trust the Chinese government not to misuse any of the data collected by the Epic Store. I sure don't.

I absolutely do not trust the Chinese government in any way. However, I fail to see how they are going to use the Epic Store data in a way that is differently harmful from all the other data they manage to collect. And Tencent owns a billion things anyway. If I tried to avoid everything that was connected with a Chinese company (and thus the government), then I wouldn't be able to do anything.

Look, I think we all understand why Soren went with Epic. They gave him funding to finish the game and otherwise he might not have been able to finish it at all. But, please understand that some of us aren't going to sign up and install Epic's client just to play this game. I think it's OK for us to express our disappointment in the situation. Epic doesn't need you all to defend them. They're big boys and girls. They can handle some criticism.

I don't think anyone was defending them. The problem is that nobody had provided a useful critique, merely complaints. Thank you for actually pointing out which things bother you about Epic, so we can have an actual discussion topic.

If we're all lucky, then Old World will only be exclusive for a year and then we can all play it elsewhere. Ideally, GOG. And hopefully, Soren will have the foresight to make his own mod manager and whatnot so that mods aren't tied to a single platform. It really sucks when you buy a game on GOG and the mods only work in the Steam Workshop, or whatever. We all pay the same price. Let's all get the same features.

This is a far more useful statement than "ew Epic", and I hope the developers take it into consideration.

 

[tedhebert]

1. Epic's poor business ethics, such as bribing developers with lower fees to make their games exclusive on Epic's store, even when the game was already available for early access play and pre-orders on Steam and elsewhere. This sucks for the people that expected to play it on Steam and then weren't able to. Examples include Phoenix Point and Metro Exodus. And Epic is still doing this, too. They're going after games that are slated to launch on Steam and GOG and they're offering them funding to pull those releases and to go with Epic for at least one year. That's really poor form.

So I guess by that account that you wont subscribe to Disney+ since they 'STOLE' stuff that was already on netflix, like the Marvel movies ? Or HBO MAX because they took away 'Friends' from netflix ? Common, that's just common business for something new settling in !

3. Epic is collecting your data. Not just which game you're playing and your hardware configuration, but also things like what media you're streaming. Do you really want yet another company collecting information about you? Isn't Steam bad enough without adding another one?

So... Steam is doing it, FB is doing it, almost everyone is doing it, but EPIC if evil incarnate because they're doing it ?

4. Epic is 40% owned by Tencent, a Chinese company with ties to the Chinese government. Maybe you trust the Chinese government not to misuse any of the data collected by the Epic Store. I sure don't.

Well... no I don't trust them. But to be 100% honest, I don't trust the US Government either. Snowdon and friends have shown us why !

I'm not an Epic supporter, I don't have the client, but I just fail to see why Steam HAS to be the only platform for games. It's convenient, yes. But so was microsoft when windows was pretty much the only OS on personal computer. Didn't make it right or better,

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: This thread is about the game Old World. Please come back to topic.

 

[Kruos]

For whom interested, here is a let's play serie from the guys at Explorminate :

 

[Naktis]

I really like family tree, reminds me of crusader kings, where heirs getting assassinated. What I didnt like is that I cant build cities where I want. And how big war will happen with units and movement system.

 

[newbie2]

is it gonna stay epic exclusive?

 

[Starwars]

After checking out some gameplay videos of this, I have to say that I'm pretty excited for it. Might even buy it for early access, looks like a lot of fun.

 

[j51]

It looks exciting and I would actually buy it early access if it was on mac, but alas... Although I swear on the day it was announced there were mac specs listed and then they were taken down. I must be imagining things!

 

[Xefjord]

I only play games where I can play Asian nations/scenarios, but the mechanics for this game look very cool. What are the chances that more regions of the world eventually get covered and more cultures? Especially from asia?

 

[Casualty of war]

All the things I enjoy about current 4X games with several delightful features that have been lost or neglected by CivVI. Crusader Kings and Civ IV got busy and had a baby. Sign me up. I appreciate the more intimate scale because Archers shooting across lakes always pulls me out of the immersion.

I really enjoyed Potato's play-through, Difficulty turned up to 11. "Aaaaah, Barbs everywhere, all my heirs are dead, my brother stole the throne!" That's the kind of exhilaration I'm looking for.

 

[footslogger]

Do we have an approximate date for release of the completed version of the game?

 

[Kruos]

All the things I enjoy about current 4X games with several delightful features that have been lost or neglected by CivVI. Crusader Kings and Civ IV got busy and had a baby. Sign me up. I appreciate the more intimate scale because Archers shooting across lakes always pulls me out of the immersion.

I really enjoyed Potato's play-through, Difficulty turned up to 11. "Aaaaah, Barbs everywhere, all my heirs are dead, my brother stole the throne!" That's the kind of exhilaration I'm looking for.

Same for me. With the scale fix it seems SJ is showing Firaxis the right way to implement 1upt in a civ game.