Stormrider
Civ Journeyman
I got it. Will not be able to play until tomorrow if that is ok
SP6 - Deity Training
- Thread starter Sirp
- Start date
Indeed, it has been far too long since you played your turn Renata. It is not good for a succession game's health to stall for this long.
I'm afraid we're going to have to skip you, Stormrider. I'm up, and I got it, and I'm playing right now!
-Sirp.
I'm afraid we're going to have to skip you, Stormrider. I'm up, and I got it, and I'm playing right now!
-Sirp.
(IT) 470BC: change workers mining near Baltimore to irrigating. I am tempted, sorely tempted, to change Washington from building a marketplace -> workers. But, we do need that marketplace. St Louis is switched to a worker from barracks though. New Orleans is switched from warrior -> worker. Yes we are thin on military. We are also thin on workers.
Boston can get to 5 food surplus and 5 spt, so we can get a worker out every 2 turns. Hmm..Seattle was left ready to riot. Fix that.
Buffalo is switched to a worker as well.
Chicago catapult -> Aqueduct.
Yes, we are short on military. Yes, if someone attacks us, we will die. Let's just hope it doesn't happen.
(1) 450BC: I start moving lots of workers west and toward the capital. That's where they're needed most.
*all* the AIs now have Feudalism and Theology. Soon enough we'll see knights prancing around. Meanwhile we have some real convincing looking paper cut outs defending our cities!
(2) 430BC: The Japanese are building Leonardo's Workshop. We now have Boston set up in worker every 2 turns mode.
(3) 410BC: ...move workers around, trying to focus on getting cities near Washington and New York going well.
(4) 390BC: We now have trade routes with our harbor completed.
We trade ivory + 60 gold to Babylon for spices. Then we trade ivory to Hiawatha for 130 gold + 2gpt.
Lux rate cut, and we are getting 21gpt. After our incense is hooked up and we have a marketplace in Washington, we should be able to nix luxuries entirely.
France could do with our ivories, but can't pay us anything decent for them.
(5) 370BC: Our incense is hooked up, and we purchase Feudalism off France for 189 gold + Ivory + Incense. Can't quite do away with our lux slider altogether, but we do fire some specialists.
(6) 350BC: Washington grows to size 8, and we have to set a taxman for one turn, but it's going to complete its marketplace next turn.
(7) 330BC: Washington builds its marketplace, and some gpt deals expire at the same time, giving us an income of 38gpt. Philadelphia has the Forbidden Palace due next turn. I immediately merge a worker into Washington, and our income goes up to 40gpt. We are still paying 37gpt to other civs. When that all runs out, we're going to be making lots.
Hmm..unfortunately we still can't nix luxuries completely. We're going to need at least one more luxury good to do that.
(8) 310BC: Philadelphia FP -> Marketplace. Our gpt surplus shoots up to 69 momentarily, before falling to 64 as we build workers and units. Germany doesn't have invention yet, but does have theology, so I am tempted to go for a 2-for-1, but having to pay around 40gpt is just a little too much to commit to. We don't need these inventions right now, so let's just build up our treasury and buy them cheap later.
We could really do with more incense and silks being hooked up to sell, so I set about doing that.
(9) 290BC: ...moving workers about...
(10) 270BC: New York builds its marketplace -> Medieval Infantry. Getting a good city that can build military is our first step toward guaranteeing national security. Merge two workers into the city to pull it up to size 9. Our gpt is now 77. Chivalry has now been discovered and traded around the AI. France is the only civ that *doesn't* have it.
Hmm...time to pull some brokering. Chivalry from the Iroquois for 186 gold + Incense + 9gpt. We've traded away our last incense, but we're about to hook more up next turn.
Then we visit France and trade Chivalry + OUR ONLY SOURCE OF IRON (!!) for Theology and Feudalism.
I decide to play one more turn just to make sure our happiness and lux rate is done right...
(11) 250BC: We hook up incense, lux cut to 10%. Surplus is at 76gpt. We have a 37gpt payment to the Iroquois that's going to expire next turn!
We want to hook up this silk soon, as it will be useful for more trading opportunities. Make sure that there is a road onto it for when Atlanta's borders expand. The Ottoman taking of Salonika is especially crucial considering it has iron AND silks. We are happy to sell our only source of iron to France. We can get LOTS of value from it. We might consider building some horses and warriors while the deal lasts, and when it runs out, upgrade the units in one turn and then immediately make another deal for iron.
I know that selling off your only source of iron isn't pretty in the least, but sometimes you just gotta do it on Deity.
We need to look for an opportunity to broker for Education. Keep building up our cash supply, and hopefully we can get to the stage of being able to buy things with straight gold instead of paying gpt.
Hey our military may not be pretty, but at least our economy is getting somewhere. Slowly. We can build an MDI in New York, since it already started on it. Then we'll have to settle for longbowmen as our best military unit.
We've got lots of settler/escort pairs wandering across our lands. Heading down south. It's a Deity Right of Passage. Just let them go across
Stormrider (skipped)
Sirp <-- Just played
Matt_g <-- UP NOW!
Renata
Borealis (hope her move goes well, and she's feeling better!)
Go get em Matt_g!
-Sirp.
The Game
Boston can get to 5 food surplus and 5 spt, so we can get a worker out every 2 turns. Hmm..Seattle was left ready to riot. Fix that.
Buffalo is switched to a worker as well.
Chicago catapult -> Aqueduct.
Yes, we are short on military. Yes, if someone attacks us, we will die. Let's just hope it doesn't happen.
(1) 450BC: I start moving lots of workers west and toward the capital. That's where they're needed most.
*all* the AIs now have Feudalism and Theology. Soon enough we'll see knights prancing around. Meanwhile we have some real convincing looking paper cut outs defending our cities!
(2) 430BC: The Japanese are building Leonardo's Workshop. We now have Boston set up in worker every 2 turns mode.
(3) 410BC: ...move workers around, trying to focus on getting cities near Washington and New York going well.
(4) 390BC: We now have trade routes with our harbor completed.
We trade ivory + 60 gold to Babylon for spices. Then we trade ivory to Hiawatha for 130 gold + 2gpt.
Lux rate cut, and we are getting 21gpt. After our incense is hooked up and we have a marketplace in Washington, we should be able to nix luxuries entirely.
France could do with our ivories, but can't pay us anything decent for them.
(5) 370BC: Our incense is hooked up, and we purchase Feudalism off France for 189 gold + Ivory + Incense. Can't quite do away with our lux slider altogether, but we do fire some specialists.
(6) 350BC: Washington grows to size 8, and we have to set a taxman for one turn, but it's going to complete its marketplace next turn.
(7) 330BC: Washington builds its marketplace, and some gpt deals expire at the same time, giving us an income of 38gpt. Philadelphia has the Forbidden Palace due next turn. I immediately merge a worker into Washington, and our income goes up to 40gpt. We are still paying 37gpt to other civs. When that all runs out, we're going to be making lots.
Hmm..unfortunately we still can't nix luxuries completely. We're going to need at least one more luxury good to do that.
(8) 310BC: Philadelphia FP -> Marketplace. Our gpt surplus shoots up to 69 momentarily, before falling to 64 as we build workers and units. Germany doesn't have invention yet, but does have theology, so I am tempted to go for a 2-for-1, but having to pay around 40gpt is just a little too much to commit to. We don't need these inventions right now, so let's just build up our treasury and buy them cheap later.
We could really do with more incense and silks being hooked up to sell, so I set about doing that.
(9) 290BC: ...moving workers about...
(10) 270BC: New York builds its marketplace -> Medieval Infantry. Getting a good city that can build military is our first step toward guaranteeing national security. Merge two workers into the city to pull it up to size 9. Our gpt is now 77. Chivalry has now been discovered and traded around the AI. France is the only civ that *doesn't* have it.
Hmm...time to pull some brokering. Chivalry from the Iroquois for 186 gold + Incense + 9gpt. We've traded away our last incense, but we're about to hook more up next turn.
Then we visit France and trade Chivalry + OUR ONLY SOURCE OF IRON (!!) for Theology and Feudalism.
I decide to play one more turn just to make sure our happiness and lux rate is done right...
(11) 250BC: We hook up incense, lux cut to 10%. Surplus is at 76gpt. We have a 37gpt payment to the Iroquois that's going to expire next turn!
We want to hook up this silk soon, as it will be useful for more trading opportunities. Make sure that there is a road onto it for when Atlanta's borders expand. The Ottoman taking of Salonika is especially crucial considering it has iron AND silks. We are happy to sell our only source of iron to France. We can get LOTS of value from it. We might consider building some horses and warriors while the deal lasts, and when it runs out, upgrade the units in one turn and then immediately make another deal for iron.
I know that selling off your only source of iron isn't pretty in the least, but sometimes you just gotta do it on Deity.
We need to look for an opportunity to broker for Education. Keep building up our cash supply, and hopefully we can get to the stage of being able to buy things with straight gold instead of paying gpt.
Hey our military may not be pretty, but at least our economy is getting somewhere. Slowly. We can build an MDI in New York, since it already started on it. Then we'll have to settle for longbowmen as our best military unit.
We've got lots of settler/escort pairs wandering across our lands. Heading down south. It's a Deity Right of Passage. Just let them go across
Stormrider (skipped)
Sirp <-- Just played
Matt_g <-- UP NOW!
Renata
Borealis (hope her move goes well, and she's feeling better!)
Go get em Matt_g!
-Sirp.
The Game
*pokes head in*
I'm back to civving now, finally, and I should be able to take my turn after Renata.
It looks like the money is finally starting to roll in, and I agree about trading away the iron- I've done similar things on Emperor level, and wondered if it would work here.
I'm back to civving now, finally, and I should be able to take my turn after Renata.
It looks like the money is finally starting to roll in, and I agree about trading away the iron- I've done similar things on Emperor level, and wondered if it would work here.
Preturn: Nothing changed.
230 BC (1) Washington, temple>cathedral. We want Wash. at size 12. I turned down the lux slider to see where its at happiness wise. At size 10 with the temple and no lux tax, it has 4 happy and 6 unhappy. If we get another lux, (say wines from Bismarck for whatever), at size 12 it will have 5 happy, 1 content, and 6 unhappy. No good. Hence the cathedral. If we have to pay 2gpt upkeep for a building, we might as well get 3 content faces vs. 2 for a colosseum. If I have figured this wrong please tell me.
Boston, worker>worker.
Palace gets a new front lawn.
Workers start chopping jungle around Atlanta in anticipation of getting that silk hooked. No since building the road first when it needs to be cleared anyways.
God I love the Industrious trait.
We are making +112gpt after finally getting Republic paid for. [dance]
IT: nada
210 BC (2) Baltimore, worker>temple. I know we cant win a culture war but we have it get some in there to help with flip prevention and expand borders.
Working on getting those game tiles outside of Miami irrigated so they can be used when its borders expand.
Diplo check: Hammie, Bismarck & Hiawatha all have Education. I could get it from Hiawa for all our gold (264) 40gpt., and WM.
Joanie and Toku have nothing to give for it except Monarchy Bah. Osman has furs but thats not good enough.
IT: nada
190 BC (3) Boston, worker>worker. New York, Medieval Infantry>Horseman.
I rethink my strategy at Washington and switch it to a barracks (no shields lost). We need troops more. If we have to run lux tax so be it. Perhaps we can take care of the problem by bringing in wines from Germany and fur from the Ottomans.
Diplo check: Whoa Toku and and Hammie now have Education and Gunpowder. I can get Gunpowder for 361 gold (have 374) WM, and 52gpt. I am afraid everyone will have it next turn and I will lose this opportunity to get Education, so I pull the trigger.
WM, 361 gold and 52gpt to Toku for Gunpowder.
Gunpowder, WM, 13 gold and 18gpt to Hiawatha for Education.
We are still making 49gpt.
Education to Osman for all his gold (6) .sucks I know, WM and furs. He has no gpt to part with. Even putting in 1 gpt was a They will never accept such a deal situation.
Gunpowder to Bismarck for 13 gold, his WM and Wines. He doesnt have any gpt either Bah. One good side effect, He is no longer annoyed and is now polite. Thats not insignificant in and of itself. In fact all Civs are polite with us. We just might live long enough to roll over these turkeys with tanks yet!
Finally get around to Joanie who has nothing. I give her Gunpowder for her 5 gold, WM, and Monarchy. Yeah I know we will never use it but we might as well get something from her.
We are now at tech parity (for a turn or 2 anyways)
Where is all their gpt going? Man that was frustrating.
I look forward to hearing your feedback on this trade Sirp. This is one aspect of the game I have no experience with.
At Regent and below where I have been playing until these TDGs, and even in that Monarch game I sent you, I was and always am the tech leader, so this is new to me.
IT: nada
170 BC (4) Washington, barracks>Longbow. At 14spt building horses in 3 hurts way to much. LBs are more efficient and better attackers.
Philly, market>granary. I want this city at size 12 ASAP.
Oops I forgot to nix the lux tax at the end of last turn. I do it now. With that and Phillys market done we are making +82gpt. [dance]
Nothing wrong with our economy! Oh and we will have 2 saltpeter when the borders expand at Detroit and New Orleans. In fact to get muskets online ASAP, I rush the remainder of the temple at Detroit for 48 gold speeding that up by 3 turns. Saltpeter/muskets will be online by the end of my turn. (Yes, I write these reports as Im playing)
One other tidbit. Mugla must be grabbing oil as there isnt any SP down there.
IT: nada
150 BC (5) Miami, temple>courthouse. It has 40% corruption.
Detroit, temple>granary. Boston, worker>worker.
Damn, Cincy riots. I forgot it wasnt on the trade network and it rioted when it grew to size 2. Clown hired until the road completes. MM New York to grow faster and still pull 10spt. Was getting 12 spt. That was an evil number.
IT: Most of the settler pairs have gone home.
130 BC (6) Chicago, Aqueduct>temple. Denver, worker>temple.
New York, horseman>horseman. OK, I really dont like the looks of this Ottoman archer and sword approaching Boston. I have our lone MDI in front of them in position to reach either Boston or NO in 1 turn. I send our horse that just completed in NY down that way as well. They could be going home to Mugla but I just have a bad feeling about this. We will see in a couple of turns.
Diplo check: Nothing new. We are still at tech parity and in fact are up Gunpowder on Osman. He cant give squat for it though so he does without.
IT: nada
110 BC (7) Road to Cincy completes and the clown is told to get off his lazy ass and go back to work. Boston, worker>worker. Houston, worker>courthouse. Washington, LB>LB.
IT: Osman demands 29 gold and our TM. I pay the a**hole his money. There will come a day my friend, when you will regret the fact your mother ever gave birth to you!
90 BC (8) Atlanta, temple>market. Philly, granary>rax. Lets get some troops.
Nothing new on the Tech front.
IT: nada
70 BC (9) Saltpeter online!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
New Orleans, temple>market. Torn between this or a granary.
New York, horseman>musket.
Boston, worker>worker. Swap Washingtons LB to a musket.
IT: Iros complete Sun Tzu. Everyone cascades to Leos. Osman didnt sneak attack us. I think he would have if I hadnt moved 2 more units into Chicago last turn. I have been shadowing his units with a horse and our only MDI.
50 BC (10) Worker stuff.
State of the Nation:
We have 30 workers and Boston is still cranking 1 every 2 turns.
We have 473 gold and are making +86gpt.
We finally have the means to replace our paper cutouts with muskets.
We are still at tech parity.
It looks like Joanie and Hammie dont have any SaltPeter. The rest do, but most dont have it hooked yet.
We lose our spices in 3 turns. Always renegotiate is turned on. Without them our citys will riot at size 12. 5 luxuries doesnt cut it.
Still 13 turns left on the deal I made which is costing 70 gpt.
9 turns till the Iron deal is up.
Osmans sword and archer are still hanging around. I dont trust that lowlife as far as I could throw him.
There is a Horse and a Longbow fortified in Chicago that you will probably want to move elsewhere. Those are the 2 units I mentioned early that I used to deter Osman from sneak attacking us. It looks like they may be heading to Mugla now, but they sure took the long way around, walking right by Chicago.
I just realized that Seattle needs work. It has a courthouse due in 5. Im thinking rush the courthouse and mine some tiles and get an aqueduct built. Its stuck at 6. Buffalo is in the same situation basically.
@Sirp, before you even say it, I see the bad move with the worker working the hill at Detroit.
Good luck Renata!
Matt
230 BC (1) Washington, temple>cathedral. We want Wash. at size 12. I turned down the lux slider to see where its at happiness wise. At size 10 with the temple and no lux tax, it has 4 happy and 6 unhappy. If we get another lux, (say wines from Bismarck for whatever), at size 12 it will have 5 happy, 1 content, and 6 unhappy. No good. Hence the cathedral. If we have to pay 2gpt upkeep for a building, we might as well get 3 content faces vs. 2 for a colosseum. If I have figured this wrong please tell me.
Boston, worker>worker.
Palace gets a new front lawn.
Workers start chopping jungle around Atlanta in anticipation of getting that silk hooked. No since building the road first when it needs to be cleared anyways.
God I love the Industrious trait.
We are making +112gpt after finally getting Republic paid for. [dance]
IT: nada
210 BC (2) Baltimore, worker>temple. I know we cant win a culture war but we have it get some in there to help with flip prevention and expand borders.
Working on getting those game tiles outside of Miami irrigated so they can be used when its borders expand.
Diplo check: Hammie, Bismarck & Hiawatha all have Education. I could get it from Hiawa for all our gold (264) 40gpt., and WM.
Joanie and Toku have nothing to give for it except Monarchy Bah. Osman has furs but thats not good enough.
IT: nada
190 BC (3) Boston, worker>worker. New York, Medieval Infantry>Horseman.
I rethink my strategy at Washington and switch it to a barracks (no shields lost). We need troops more. If we have to run lux tax so be it. Perhaps we can take care of the problem by bringing in wines from Germany and fur from the Ottomans.
Diplo check: Whoa Toku and and Hammie now have Education and Gunpowder. I can get Gunpowder for 361 gold (have 374) WM, and 52gpt. I am afraid everyone will have it next turn and I will lose this opportunity to get Education, so I pull the trigger.
WM, 361 gold and 52gpt to Toku for Gunpowder.
Gunpowder, WM, 13 gold and 18gpt to Hiawatha for Education.
We are still making 49gpt.
Education to Osman for all his gold (6) .sucks I know, WM and furs. He has no gpt to part with. Even putting in 1 gpt was a They will never accept such a deal situation.
Gunpowder to Bismarck for 13 gold, his WM and Wines. He doesnt have any gpt either Bah. One good side effect, He is no longer annoyed and is now polite. Thats not insignificant in and of itself. In fact all Civs are polite with us. We just might live long enough to roll over these turkeys with tanks yet!
Finally get around to Joanie who has nothing. I give her Gunpowder for her 5 gold, WM, and Monarchy. Yeah I know we will never use it but we might as well get something from her.
We are now at tech parity (for a turn or 2 anyways)
Where is all their gpt going? Man that was frustrating.
I look forward to hearing your feedback on this trade Sirp. This is one aspect of the game I have no experience with.
At Regent and below where I have been playing until these TDGs, and even in that Monarch game I sent you, I was and always am the tech leader, so this is new to me.
IT: nada
170 BC (4) Washington, barracks>Longbow. At 14spt building horses in 3 hurts way to much. LBs are more efficient and better attackers.
Philly, market>granary. I want this city at size 12 ASAP.
Oops I forgot to nix the lux tax at the end of last turn. I do it now. With that and Phillys market done we are making +82gpt. [dance]
Nothing wrong with our economy! Oh and we will have 2 saltpeter when the borders expand at Detroit and New Orleans. In fact to get muskets online ASAP, I rush the remainder of the temple at Detroit for 48 gold speeding that up by 3 turns. Saltpeter/muskets will be online by the end of my turn. (Yes, I write these reports as Im playing)
One other tidbit. Mugla must be grabbing oil as there isnt any SP down there.
IT: nada
150 BC (5) Miami, temple>courthouse. It has 40% corruption.
Detroit, temple>granary. Boston, worker>worker.
Damn, Cincy riots. I forgot it wasnt on the trade network and it rioted when it grew to size 2. Clown hired until the road completes. MM New York to grow faster and still pull 10spt. Was getting 12 spt. That was an evil number.
IT: Most of the settler pairs have gone home.
130 BC (6) Chicago, Aqueduct>temple. Denver, worker>temple.
New York, horseman>horseman. OK, I really dont like the looks of this Ottoman archer and sword approaching Boston. I have our lone MDI in front of them in position to reach either Boston or NO in 1 turn. I send our horse that just completed in NY down that way as well. They could be going home to Mugla but I just have a bad feeling about this. We will see in a couple of turns.
Diplo check: Nothing new. We are still at tech parity and in fact are up Gunpowder on Osman. He cant give squat for it though so he does without.
IT: nada
110 BC (7) Road to Cincy completes and the clown is told to get off his lazy ass and go back to work.
Boston, worker>worker. Houston, worker>courthouse. Washington, LB>LB.IT: Osman demands 29 gold and our TM. I pay the a**hole his money. There will come a day my friend, when you will regret the fact your mother ever gave birth to you!
90 BC (8) Atlanta, temple>market. Philly, granary>rax. Lets get some troops.
Nothing new on the Tech front.
IT: nada
70 BC (9) Saltpeter online!
New Orleans, temple>market. Torn between this or a granary.
New York, horseman>musket.
Boston, worker>worker. Swap Washingtons LB to a musket.
IT: Iros complete Sun Tzu. Everyone cascades to Leos. Osman didnt sneak attack us. I think he would have if I hadnt moved 2 more units into Chicago last turn. I have been shadowing his units with a horse and our only MDI.
50 BC (10) Worker stuff.
State of the Nation:
We have 30 workers and Boston is still cranking 1 every 2 turns.
We have 473 gold and are making +86gpt.
We finally have the means to replace our paper cutouts with muskets.
We are still at tech parity.
It looks like Joanie and Hammie dont have any SaltPeter. The rest do, but most dont have it hooked yet.
We lose our spices in 3 turns. Always renegotiate is turned on. Without them our citys will riot at size 12. 5 luxuries doesnt cut it.
Still 13 turns left on the deal I made which is costing 70 gpt.
9 turns till the Iron deal is up.
Osmans sword and archer are still hanging around. I dont trust that lowlife as far as I could throw him.
There is a Horse and a Longbow fortified in Chicago that you will probably want to move elsewhere. Those are the 2 units I mentioned early that I used to deter Osman from sneak attacking us. It looks like they may be heading to Mugla now, but they sure took the long way around, walking right by Chicago.
I just realized that Seattle needs work. It has a courthouse due in 5. Im thinking rush the courthouse and mine some tiles and get an aqueduct built. Its stuck at 6. Buffalo is in the same situation basically.
@Sirp, before you even say it, I see the bad move with the worker working the hill at Detroit.
Good luck Renata!
Matt
@Shillen: Well spotted. Yeah I meant Invention the second time. I have already proven in this game that I get technologies mixed up, with Polytheism vs Mysticism
Yes we do want cathedrals at some stage, but they don't have to be this high priority. I see you changed your mind later.
ALWAYS build cathedrals over colosseums, I hardly ever build colosseums; they cost alot, and are alot to maintain relative to their benefit.
I did choose it for this game for a reason!
Indeed. In case people didn't know, the major factor in culture flipping is the number of tiles in your city's radius that are under the other civ's control. The number of troops in the city are subtracted, and then this is multiplied by the ratio of your civ's total culture, and the ratio of distance between capitals.
(Foreign nationals count too, but that's not important to us at this time).
I understand therefore, that if you have as many troops in a city of yours as there are tiles under the other civ's cultural control, that the city is guaranteed not to flip. I'm not completely sure about this though.
Building a temple in a city helps against culture flip *if* the temple staves off some tiles in the city's radius being under foreign cultural control. This is definitely the case in Baltimore.
If possible, we want to have ongoing resource deals with all the civs we can. It makes them lots happier with us. The nice friendly Americans sell all sorts of goodies to other civilizations, we are happy friendly traders, we don't want to kill anyone! We even let people march right through our territory without saying anything!
Yeah the trade was reasonable. It's frustrating giving away gpt, but sometimes you have no choice. I don't think you left us with too many gpt payments though.
Well, one of the most satisfying parts of the game on higher levels is when you get to pull off a really good deal.
Since it's almost size 12, we want to mine around Washington real soon. Then it'll get over 15 spt soon. Horses are upgradeable to knights and cavalry
A faster way would be just to merge in some workers from Boston. They'll get it nice and big real fast, and no need to use shields on a granary.
We can get a third saltpeter source by founding a city two tiles south-west of Denver. I recommend we do this asap. Other civs lack saltpeter and it would be VERY good to sell it to them.
I think you have to to write them in this detail, and yes, tenses often get mixed up
Nice, but...did you consider selling it to someone else after setting builds for musketmen?
The Ottomans will give us 15gpt for it. Nothing to be sneezed at!
Other civs will give us things for it too. I suggest getting all three saltpeter sources we can, and trading at least two of them, maybe three. Among other things, it will improve relations with civs we trade with.
The value of saltpeter will be relatively low at the moment, since only musketmen can be built with them. As cannon, frigates, and cavalry become available, the price will go up several fold.
(I was able to get Oil off Carthage for 1gpt in my last Deity game, since there was nothing that could be built by it yet. He wanted to renegotiate the deal as soon as it expired, and Destroyers/Battleships were available )
I am pretty sure that sneak attacks work by a civ 'deciding' they will sneak attack you at some point, and then sending units along to do it. No matter what you do, they WILL sneak attack you, although your movements might change exactly when and where.
Keep up the worker jobs. More effective than building granaries is simply irrigating around cities, and/or merging workers into cities.
It would be good to extract the occasional worker from elsewhere now and again.
Yeah Seattle and Buffalo are on the verge of becoming pretty decent cities. Buffalo is taking a bit longer, but has a source of fresh water, so it will overtake Seattle, which will need to stop and build an aqueduct. We could pull some workers out of Seattle for a while instead though (and maybe a settler to get that saltpeter!)
Good luck Renata!
-Sirp.
Yes we do want cathedrals at some stage, but they don't have to be this high priority. I see you changed your mind later.
ALWAYS build cathedrals over colosseums, I hardly ever build colosseums; they cost alot, and are alot to maintain relative to their benefit.
I did choose it for this game for a reason!
Indeed. In case people didn't know, the major factor in culture flipping is the number of tiles in your city's radius that are under the other civ's control. The number of troops in the city are subtracted, and then this is multiplied by the ratio of your civ's total culture, and the ratio of distance between capitals.
(Foreign nationals count too, but that's not important to us at this time).
I understand therefore, that if you have as many troops in a city of yours as there are tiles under the other civ's cultural control, that the city is guaranteed not to flip. I'm not completely sure about this though.
Building a temple in a city helps against culture flip *if* the temple staves off some tiles in the city's radius being under foreign cultural control. This is definitely the case in Baltimore.
Diplo check: Whoa Toku and and Hammie now have Education and Gunpowder. I can get Gunpowder for 361 gold (have 374) WM, and 52gpt. I am afraid everyone will have it next turn and I will lose this opportunity to get Education, so I pull the trigger.
WM, 361 gold and 52gpt to Toku for Gunpowder.
Gunpowder, WM, 13 gold and 18gpt to Hiawatha for Education.
We are still making 49gpt.
Education to Osman for all his gold (6) .sucks I know, WM and furs. He has no gpt to part with. Even putting in 1 gpt was a They will never accept such a deal situation.
Gunpowder to Bismarck for 13 gold, his WM and Wines. He doesnt have any gpt either Bah. One good side effect, He is no longer annoyed and is now polite. Thats not insignificant in and of itself. In fact all Civs are polite with us. We just might live long enough to roll over these turkeys with tanks yet!
If possible, we want to have ongoing resource deals with all the civs we can. It makes them lots happier with us. The nice friendly Americans sell all sorts of goodies to other civilizations, we are happy friendly traders, we don't want to kill anyone! We even let people march right through our territory without saying anything!
Finally get around to Joanie who has nothing. I give her Gunpowder for her 5 gold, WM, and Monarchy. Yeah I know we will never use it but we might as well get something from her.
We are now at tech parity (for a turn or 2 anyways)
Where is all their gpt going? Man that was frustrating.
I look forward to hearing your feedback on this trade Sirp. This is one aspect of the game I have no experience with.
Yeah the trade was reasonable. It's frustrating giving away gpt, but sometimes you have no choice. I don't think you left us with too many gpt payments though.
Well, one of the most satisfying parts of the game on higher levels is when you get to pull off a really good deal.
Since it's almost size 12, we want to mine around Washington real soon. Then it'll get over 15 spt soon. Horses are upgradeable to knights and cavalry
A faster way would be just to merge in some workers from Boston. They'll get it nice and big real fast, and no need to use shields on a granary.
We can get a third saltpeter source by founding a city two tiles south-west of Denver. I recommend we do this asap. Other civs lack saltpeter and it would be VERY good to sell it to them.
I think you have to to write them in this detail, and yes, tenses often get mixed up
70 BC (9) Saltpeter online!
Nice, but...did you consider selling it to someone else after setting builds for musketmen?
The Ottomans will give us 15gpt for it. Nothing to be sneezed at!
Other civs will give us things for it too. I suggest getting all three saltpeter sources we can, and trading at least two of them, maybe three. Among other things, it will improve relations with civs we trade with.
The value of saltpeter will be relatively low at the moment, since only musketmen can be built with them. As cannon, frigates, and cavalry become available, the price will go up several fold.
(I was able to get Oil off Carthage for 1gpt in my last Deity game, since there was nothing that could be built by it yet. He wanted to renegotiate the deal as soon as it expired, and Destroyers/Battleships were available
)I am pretty sure that sneak attacks work by a civ 'deciding' they will sneak attack you at some point, and then sending units along to do it. No matter what you do, they WILL sneak attack you, although your movements might change exactly when and where.
Keep up the worker jobs. More effective than building granaries is simply irrigating around cities, and/or merging workers into cities.
It would be good to extract the occasional worker from elsewhere now and again.
Yeah Seattle and Buffalo are on the verge of becoming pretty decent cities. Buffalo is taking a bit longer, but has a source of fresh water, so it will overtake Seattle, which will need to stop and build an aqueduct. We could pull some workers out of Seattle for a while instead though (and maybe a settler to get that saltpeter!)
Good luck Renata!
-Sirp.
I thought I would add something in about culture wars and avoiding culture flipping on Deity, since I think this is an important, but under-recognized topic.
Firstly, let's make one thing clear: we have no chance of flipping someone else's city to us. No chance. It's a pipe dream that's not going to happen.
The only flipping that can happen is our cities flipping to them.
The formula for the chance of flipping is something like,
(T + F + R - M) * C * D * K
where,
T is the number of tiles in the city's radius that is under the 'attacking' civilization's cultural control
F is the number of foreign nationals in the city of the 'attacking' civilization
R is the number of resisters in the city of the 'attacking' civilization's nationality
M is the number of military units in the city
C is the ratio of the attacker's total culture to the defender's total culture
D is the ratio of the distance of the city from the attacker's capital to the distance of the city from the defender's capital
K is a constant
(There are a few other factors such as flip chance being doubled if the 'historical' culture of the attacking civilization is higher in the city than that of the defending, but I won't go into those here, as they are more related to culture flipping in a captured city).
Now, note that in this game, the Japanese have over seven times as much culture as us (you can check this by capturing the culture histograph, loading into an image program, and counting pixels). Japan is the *least* cultured of our rivals; other civilizations such as Babylon have even more.
So there you go, to start with, any attempt by us to culture flip a Japanese city will be divided by 7 due to total culture. Any attempt by Japan to culture flip one of our cities will be multiplied by 7 due to total culture. That means that Japan is 49 times more likely to flip one of our cities than we are to flip one of theirs, other things being even. Ouch.
So how do you stop culture flips? No matter how nasty those C and D numbers are, as long as the bit inside the brackets, (T + F + R - M) is 0 (or less), there is no chance of a culture flip. F and R are not relevant for us at this stage, so all that matters is T - M. I.e. we must make sure T <= M. We must make sure we have as least as many military units in the city as tiles in the city radius that are under Japanese cultural control.
I have made an image of the Japanese front:
Tiles marked with red crosses are tiles in our city radii which are as near to Japanese cities as they are to ours. That is, they are in contention. The city with the higher culture takes control of the tile. On Deity, we must assume that those tiles will fall under control of the Japanese. They are a religious civ, and we do not have any cultural traits, to make things worse.
The tiles marked with green crosses are in our city radii, not yet claimed by us, but which are closer to our cities than to any Japanese city. If we have *any* cultural claim to these tiles at all, the Japanese cannot take them off us, no matter how much culture they have. A city need only build one cultural building and it claims those tiles with no hope of the Japanese getting it.
However, if we don't build at least one cultural building in the relevant city, the Japanese may indeed take control of the tile if they have enough culture, until we do build a cultural building.
This is why it is important to build temples in border cities. This is the only reason. Other than taking control of tiles, cultural buildings do NOTHING to stop flips, or improve the chance of flipping another city, EXCEPT in that they also improve the total culture of your civilization.
So, what do we learn from this?
- we need cultural buildings in the border cities sometime before the Japanese would get cultural control over the tiles marked with green crosses.
- we must try to keep as many or more military units in cities under cultural pressure than the number of tiles of pressure. We have two in Baltimore, which is good, keep it that way. New Orleans should be fine with its one. Seattle only has two units, and it is going to need four. If we do not give Seattle more units for flip suppresant, as long as the Japanese borders grow sometime soon, I can almost guarantee that it will flip at some point during the game.
Because we've sold our iron, we can still build warriors. Nice regular warriors do just fine as flip suppressant material. Very cheap, and no-one will be tempted to move them elsewhere
Of course, if we can afford to fill our border cities with nice shiny new musket men, then even better.
San Francisco (our incense city), is going to need some military as flip suppresant as well. We need to start thinking about this sooner rather than later. We'd hate to lose any of our cities to culture flips.
I hope this little treatise was helpful to someone. I'm not sure if it was 'common knowledge' that everyone knows or if it's actually something new
Please give me feedback on whether this stuff is helpful...
-Sirp.
EDIT: Oh and yes, about that unclaimed source of saltpeter...we can get a settler out of Detroit or St Louis, or instead we can use a colony. The Japanese will have to get several expansions of their border to wrest a colony there off us, meaning we will get a nice supply of saltpeter for personal use for a very long time, while we trade the other two sources to other civilizations.
Even when they do get close to getting it off us, we could get a settler at that time (since we'll have a bigger economy by then), if we still want the saltpeter, and found a city at that point.
Yes I'm thinking a colony is the best option.
Firstly, let's make one thing clear: we have no chance of flipping someone else's city to us. No chance. It's a pipe dream that's not going to happen.
The only flipping that can happen is our cities flipping to them.
The formula for the chance of flipping is something like,
(T + F + R - M) * C * D * K
where,
T is the number of tiles in the city's radius that is under the 'attacking' civilization's cultural control
F is the number of foreign nationals in the city of the 'attacking' civilization
R is the number of resisters in the city of the 'attacking' civilization's nationality
M is the number of military units in the city
C is the ratio of the attacker's total culture to the defender's total culture
D is the ratio of the distance of the city from the attacker's capital to the distance of the city from the defender's capital
K is a constant
(There are a few other factors such as flip chance being doubled if the 'historical' culture of the attacking civilization is higher in the city than that of the defending, but I won't go into those here, as they are more related to culture flipping in a captured city).
Now, note that in this game, the Japanese have over seven times as much culture as us (you can check this by capturing the culture histograph, loading into an image program, and counting pixels). Japan is the *least* cultured of our rivals; other civilizations such as Babylon have even more.
So there you go, to start with, any attempt by us to culture flip a Japanese city will be divided by 7 due to total culture. Any attempt by Japan to culture flip one of our cities will be multiplied by 7 due to total culture. That means that Japan is 49 times more likely to flip one of our cities than we are to flip one of theirs, other things being even. Ouch.
So how do you stop culture flips? No matter how nasty those C and D numbers are, as long as the bit inside the brackets, (T + F + R - M) is 0 (or less), there is no chance of a culture flip. F and R are not relevant for us at this stage, so all that matters is T - M. I.e. we must make sure T <= M. We must make sure we have as least as many military units in the city as tiles in the city radius that are under Japanese cultural control.
I have made an image of the Japanese front:
Tiles marked with red crosses are tiles in our city radii which are as near to Japanese cities as they are to ours. That is, they are in contention. The city with the higher culture takes control of the tile. On Deity, we must assume that those tiles will fall under control of the Japanese. They are a religious civ, and we do not have any cultural traits, to make things worse.
The tiles marked with green crosses are in our city radii, not yet claimed by us, but which are closer to our cities than to any Japanese city. If we have *any* cultural claim to these tiles at all, the Japanese cannot take them off us, no matter how much culture they have. A city need only build one cultural building and it claims those tiles with no hope of the Japanese getting it.
However, if we don't build at least one cultural building in the relevant city, the Japanese may indeed take control of the tile if they have enough culture, until we do build a cultural building.
This is why it is important to build temples in border cities. This is the only reason. Other than taking control of tiles, cultural buildings do NOTHING to stop flips, or improve the chance of flipping another city, EXCEPT in that they also improve the total culture of your civilization.
So, what do we learn from this?
- we need cultural buildings in the border cities sometime before the Japanese would get cultural control over the tiles marked with green crosses.
- we must try to keep as many or more military units in cities under cultural pressure than the number of tiles of pressure. We have two in Baltimore, which is good, keep it that way. New Orleans should be fine with its one. Seattle only has two units, and it is going to need four. If we do not give Seattle more units for flip suppresant, as long as the Japanese borders grow sometime soon, I can almost guarantee that it will flip at some point during the game.
Because we've sold our iron, we can still build warriors. Nice regular warriors do just fine as flip suppressant material. Very cheap, and no-one will be tempted to move them elsewhere
Of course, if we can afford to fill our border cities with nice shiny new musket men, then even better.
San Francisco (our incense city), is going to need some military as flip suppresant as well. We need to start thinking about this sooner rather than later. We'd hate to lose any of our cities to culture flips.
I hope this little treatise was helpful to someone. I'm not sure if it was 'common knowledge' that everyone knows or if it's actually something new
Please give me feedback on whether this stuff is helpful...
-Sirp.
EDIT: Oh and yes, about that unclaimed source of saltpeter...we can get a settler out of Detroit or St Louis, or instead we can use a colony. The Japanese will have to get several expansions of their border to wrest a colony there off us, meaning we will get a nice supply of saltpeter for personal use for a very long time, while we trade the other two sources to other civilizations.
Even when they do get close to getting it off us, we could get a settler at that time (since we'll have a bigger economy by then), if we still want the saltpeter, and found a city at that point.
Yes I'm thinking a colony is the best option.
bewareofgnomes
Back Again
lurker's comment: good stuff sirp. so the best culture suppressor is cheap units and getting more tile. thanks for the in depthe guide. [lurk]
Matt: Glad to hear it was helpful
It's also a good thing to understand if you are the cultural leader, since then you can best force flips.
Renata: You don't need to station a military unit on it, since moving onto the colony would be an act of war. Since a colony is essentially as valuable as a worker, it's no more dangerous than having workers around when rival civilizations have military units nearby.
But sure, if you had a spare military unit, stationing it on the colony wouldn't be a bad idea...
-Sirp.
It's also a good thing to understand if you are the cultural leader, since then you can best force flips.
Renata: You don't need to station a military unit on it, since moving onto the colony would be an act of war. Since a colony is essentially as valuable as a worker, it's no more dangerous than having workers around when rival civilizations have military units nearby.
But sure, if you had a spare military unit, stationing it on the colony wouldn't be a bad idea...
-Sirp.
<---- Begging for more time.
Got home late from Easter dinner (my relatives can *talk*), and only got through turn 4 before I found myself staring at one worker for five minutes straight with my eyes glazing over and decided to call it a night.
I can finish my turns tonight after work.
Renata
Got home late from Easter dinner (my relatives can *talk*), and only got through turn 4 before I found myself staring at one worker for five minutes straight with my eyes glazing over and decided to call it a night.
I can finish my turns tonight after work.
Renata
