Space-1: War While Waiting

[mad-bax]

Rather uneventfull I'm afraid. Nevertheless here is what little took place.

1000BC: Pre-turn
Everything looks good.The viking archer may have to be repelled at some point, but not yet.

IBT:
Another viking archer shows up at Neapolis.

975BC:
Adjust sliders for Literature.
Worker goes to road gems.
Our archer starts towards Neapolis

IBT:
I want to see if we have horses nearby. So I set research to wheel.
We can't explore ATM. Set science to 50%. -1gpt defecit.
Antium worker - worker

950BC:
Change Veii to Great Library.

IBT:
Vikings want an audience. I decline.
Archer attacks spear and dies.
Pompeii walls - rax
Cumae spear - worker
Rome Settler - Settler

925BC:
Nothing happened

IBT:
Neapolis rax - archer

900BC:
Elite archer kills last viking archer.

875BC:
Still quiet

IBT:
Babylonians request audience. Nope.

850BC:
Spot barb galley. Does that mean Map making is around?

IBT:
Cumae worker - archer

825BC:
All quiet
Adjust slider for Wheel

IBT:
Spain contacts us. She offers wheel for Lit. No. I can't see any of her units so she must have traded for our contact.
Declare war on Spain.
Learn wheel, research maths
Rome Settler - archer
Another viking archer shows up.

800BC:
There are horses on the hills to the southwest of Pompeii. We should get HBR by the time they are hooked up.
Found Pisae - Walls
Elite archer kills archer.

IBT:
Hmmmm.. another Vik archer and two warriors appear. Our elite archer is sat on a hill SW of Neapolis. He might die soon. I'll send a spear there to help out a bit.

775BC: Elite Archer kills reg warrior.

IBT:
Pompeii rax - spear. Yes I know MB builds a spear, alert the men in white coats.

750BC:
Nothing happened.

There are a couple of warriors knocking about. Nothing to get excited about. There is a settler in Pompeii, on his way to settle on the hill either next to the horses or directly on the horses.

A couple of workers are irrigating tiles around Veii. This is a of course since Veii isn't going above size 6 any time soon. Sorry about that.

Here is the >>save<<

There are a few cities at size 3 now. We could peel off a couple of settlers and put a couple of cities on the line of Hills. With only one lux and no iron we need the land. On reflection ICS may have been a better move.

Still, we're in good shape AFAICT, but then this is my first AW.

 

[handy900]

We are in much better shape have now that we know where the horses are. Good job.

I lkie your idea of lining the hills with cities. We can move horses around and defend pretty well from there.

 

[a space oddity]

Looks like good turns, MB. I did not have time to look at the save yet, but I will tonight.

Ted, you're UP.

 

[TedJackson]

Got it



Ted

 

[TedJackson]

Pre-flight checks... OK

Press button
Gems are hooked up
Viking Warrior moves South

1 - 730BC
Spear/Archer S
Settler/Spear SW
Lux 10%
Research 70% (Maths in 8 @ +2gpt)

IBT
Viking Warriors run away
Rome Archer - Spear
Antium Worker (Flo) - Walls

2 - 710BC
Flo to Veii (road to Pompeii)
Worker (Gertie, N Antium) mine - N
Alice SE
Archer fort Rome
Spear/Settler SW - spot 2 Bab Warriors on Horses Hill
Archer/Spear S
Archer SW

IBT
Vikings head back
Babs NE

3 - 690BC
Settler/Spear SW
Elite Archer kills Bab Warrior
Alice to S Rome
Bathsheba road - joins Alice
Flo to Rome
Hilda (E Rome) irrigate - road
Gertie road

IBT
Vikings move N
Bab Bowman appears W of Horses Hill
Vet Archer kills Viking Warrior (3/4) - spots Viking Settler/Spear WSW
Elite Archer kills Bab Warrior (3/5)
Settler/Spear W to Horses Hill
Spear to Horses Hill
Alice & Bathsheba road to SW
Flo S

IBT
Vet Archer kills attacking Warrior & promotes (2/5)
Viking settler founds on spot

4 - 650BC
Ravenna founded on Horses Hill - Walls
Flo joins Road Gang

IBT
Rome Archer - Settler
We get the Forbidden Palace message
Neapolis Archer - Spear

5 - 630BC
Hilda road - move to SW Rome
Gertie (S Pisae) road - move to S Antium
Chap mine - move to SW Rome
Flo & Bathsheba road - move to Pompeii

IBT
Antium Walls - Spear
Cumae Archer - Spear
Pompeii Spear - Archer

6 - 610BC
Gertie SW, mine (was irrigated Wheat)
Alice, Bathsheba & Flo start road to E Ravenna with Spear escort
Research 80% (1 turn @ -2gpt)

IBT
Maths - HBR
Pisae Walls - Spear
Seville (Spain) Colossus

7 - 590BC
Leave Research 80% (HBR in 4 @ -2gpt)
Zzz...

IBT
Another Bab Bowman arrives NNW of Ravenna
Viking Warrior appears 2NW of Ravenna

8 - 570BC
fort Archers on hill
Road Gang roads...

IBT
Elite Archer kills attacking Bowman
Viking Warrior moves to hill N Ravenna
2 Viking Archers show up 2NW of Ravenna
Rome Settler - Lib
Neapolis Archer - Spear

9 - 550BC
Settler moves to E Neapolis
Elite Archer kills vet Warrior (N Ravenna)
Research 70% (still 2 turns @ +3gpt)

IBT
Our elite Archer (N Ravenna) is killed by Viking Archer (red-lined)
Vet Archer kills attacking Bowman

10 - 530BC
Hilda & Chap move to Cow (NW Pompeii) ready to irrigate next turn
Vet Archer to Ravenna to heal
Elite Archer (Ravenna) N (lookout)
Settler to NW Neapolis with Spear escort
Research 50% (HBR next turn @ +5gpt)

Our Empire

Notes
HBR & road to Horses both complete next turn.
We should have at least one town building a Library. Presently Rome is building one, I suggest that Neapolis starts one after the current Spear then Pompeii.
Gertie (Wheat, NE Veii) is mining the Wheat to speed GL.
Hilda & Chap (NW Pompeii) are poised to irrigate the Cow.
The Settler (NW Neapolis) is for SW of the Gold hill. Origianlly I thought of it as just a filler to increase our free military entitlement but it might do for our first bait city. It's not ideal but there isn't much else available at the moment.

The save is > here <


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Wow, Ted, that was quick.

Karasu, if you want to reconsider playing before you leave, just say so. If not, Greebley is UP.

 

[Karasu]

Sigh.
I can't play today, and tomorrow... 'Last day at work', anything can happen

I don't want to hold the SG. Skip me

 

[a space oddity]

Ok, sorry for trying to seduce you...

Greebley you're UP.

 

[handy900]

Nice job on the horses Ted.

The Settler (NW Neapolis) is for SW of the Gold hill. Origianlly I thought of it as just a filler to increase our free military entitlement but it might do for our first bait city. It's not ideal but there isn't much else available at the moment.

Nice call. Looks good.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by handy900
Nice job on the horses Ted.

I originally wanted to settle on the hill SE of the Horses to allow us to fit another city in the hills but there were too many enemy units around to chance it.


Ted

 

[Greebley]

I got it and will play tonight.

Since I am less experienced with the AW varient - some questions:

I was thinking if I can find a spare spearman to send it S as a scout. Does this seem reasonable?

Would building a town between our southmost town (Ravenna I think) and the one on the lake (neapolis I think) make sense? I was thinking on the hill 2 squares N of Ravenna. This assumes I can afford another settler. The advantage is that with a road we have 2-3 squares between cities. The disadvantage is that it is another city to guard and it is close to the grey city.

Should any considerations be made about the close grey city? Or should we be in turtle mode and ignoring it?

If we make the city SW of the gold a bait city, does that mean we want to clear the forest outside neapolis?

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by Greebley
I was thinking if I can find a spare spearman to send it S as a scout. Does this seem reasonable?

By all means

Originally posted by Greebley
Would building a town between our southmost town (Ravenna I think) and the one on the lake (neapolis I think) make sense? I was thinking on the hill 2 squares N of Ravenna. This assumes I can afford another settler. The advantage is that with a road we have 2-3 squares between cities. The disadvantage is that it is another city to guard and it is close to the grey city.

I think that might cramp Pompeii which has a bit of potential in the medium term.

Originally posted by Greebley
Should any considerations be made about the close grey city? Or should we be in turtle mode and ignoring it?

Ignore it until we have Horsemen. Perhaps ignore it then.

Originally posted by Greebley
If we make the city SW of the gold a bait city, does that mean we want to clear the forest outside neapolis?

Correct. Road the other side of the river between Pompeii & Ravenna (river tiles roaded generate an extra gp). Carry on roading up the side of the lake to Neapolis (easier troop movements between cities) and then chop the forest. Sit back and kill lots of warriors & Archers


Ted

 

[Greebley]

Preturn (1): Things were in tip-top shape. The only thing I did was switch forests in one city from a front line forest to a behind the line forest so wandering units would upset some build on me. Note that this is turn 1 to get us back on track.

IBT: The 1 hp viking archer is replaced by a veteran swordsmen.

510 BC (2): We finish horses and I start toward Monarchy (which seems to be the most useful choice though I would like map making). We can get Mysticism at top speed (4 turns). The elite archer retreats from the sword back into town.

IBT: Everyone fortifies. I have a sense of deja-vu.

490 BC (3): Worker finishes mining wheat. Road gets horses to Rome. I switch Cumae and Pompeii to horsemen. Send the archer from Cumae to Veil so I can send the elite warrior to the front to give the warrior opportunity to hit 1 hp units and get us a leader. I don't want to raise Lux so the warrior doesnt yet move. Just the archer. Cumae is happy enough as is to nod need the archer.

IBT: Another viking sword arrives.
Neapolis: Spear->Horse

470 BC (4): Hispalis built on peninsula and starts a worker. Science adjusted to 50 from 60 - still in 2.

IBT: Our guest list is now the Babylon: 1archer, Viking: 2 veteran swords and regular archer, Iroquois spear.

450 BC (5): Change my mind on Neapolis and switch to a catapult. I need to be able to bombard to get good odds fighting pillaging spearmen. Change Hispalis to walls (almost forgot to build them first). Science lowered to 40.

IBT: Viking force advances. A barbarian also shows up.

430 BC (6): Barbarian gets our archer to elite. Get Mysticism. Since I see little use for cash in the short term, I raise the science rate to 90% (after checking to make sure noone has met anyone new - the one use of money). We are at -5 gpt with 84 in the bank.

IBT: Viking swordsman and archer attack and lose. Last sword fortifies.
Antium: Spear->Catapult
Pompeii: Horse->Spear

410 BC (7): Iroquois spear is blocking my ability to complete the Pompeii to Neapolis road.

IBT: More units show up Viking have sword, archer, spear, Iroquois have spear, wearrior, archer, babylon is still at 1 archer.
Ottoman build Oracle in Edrine

390 BC (8): Bombard spearman succeeds. Decide horse vs 2 hp spear not worth it in the forest.

IBT: Another Iroqois archer appears.

370 BC (9): Finally decide I can afford to send a spear south. Actually SW seems best as the Vikings tend to come from that way more than from the S. Babylon also has iron, but no troops yet. The AI's are doing well in tech. They are close to the middle ages I think.

IBT: More Iroquois junk units appear. Viking spear near Neapolis.
Rome: Library->Horse

350 BC (10): Again attacked spear with catapult and did a point of damage. MM Rome to 10 shields for horse in 3.

I didn't do much oher than turtle. There just wasn't a lot of opportunity. I started on catapults so hopefully we can damage stuff enough so attacks are reasonable. Horses too so we can attack and retreat.

I didn't switch a town to library. I leave that to the next player to choose.

Pompeii was MM'd to give it an extra shield to get its build in 2. It can be re-adjusted next turn to get full food without delaying the build.

The Save

 

[handy900]

Well done Greebly.

Looks like I'm up. I'll get the save when I get home from work and play Thursday night. Looking at the screen shot above it appears we have lots of tiles to improve and room to sqeeze in a few more cities. We do need to have at least 1 core city working on library, marketplace, etc. at all times so I'll look at that.


TEAM INPUT REQUESTED
It looks like the Romans have a good shot at the GL. The only time I set science low in an AW game is the GL period to build cash for upgrades. If the GL is ours, we get research for free, so it’s a good time to build the bank. Without Iron I guess the first upgrade will be knights when Chivalry comes in.

Since we have math, lit and HRB, does the team want to "roll the dice" and go low on science now and bet we get the GL, or play it safe & research until we know we have the GL. An immediate Knight upgrade would be nice and perhaps give us a window to go on offense for a few turns. Wouldn't it be sweet to get super lucky with a suicide galley, contact the other continent & get chivalry well before our local AI friends.

I can’t play for a few hours, so cast your votes.

 

[Greebley]

Knights require iron as well (unless you are India).

The only upgrade we can do is archer->longbowmen and eventually spear->muskets (if we have salt). Note that this may make archers the best build once we get enough horsemen for our immediate purposes.

[Edit: For below; I think the AI's have map-making so we don't need to research it ourselves, of course. We want it for the reasons below, but only need to research it ourselves if the great library is a bust]

For this reason, I would keep research at maximum. Get Monarchy and MapMaking before stopping. Mapmaking could be very useful if we could find a two-bit island with iron. A rushed harbor would give us the iron - even a single turn could allow us to upgrage. Also for monarchy, we may get there first so even with the GL the research may benefit us.

I wonder if it might not be a bad idea to build a an army with our first GL, get a cheap win, and then send it out as a scout. The computer does not usually attack armies. We can use this to scout out the Viking (and babylon) iron and see if we are going to be able to get it anytime soon.

 

[TedJackson]

1st GL for an Army. Army picks an easy win. Heroic epic. 2nd GL hurries Heroic Epic


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

I agree with continuing research. It would already be harsh if we fail the Great Library, so we should *not* put all our cards on it. Not getting a wonder doesn't break a game. Not researching when you can't trade, will.

 

[Northern Pike]

In a normal game, this would certainly be the time to go to minimum research. But in our situation, it could be damaging to wait for Map Making and Monarchy until the Great Library produces them, so I think we should continue doing our own research at least until we have those two techs.

Some points of detail:

1. If the Viking swordsman and archer near Neapolis move north next turn, we'll have no good way of reinforcing Hispalis before they can attack its inadequate garrison (one spearman). We need to get reinforcements moving out of Neapolis towards Hispalis right now, before pressing Enter. To keep our defensive position balanced, we could also move a spearman out of Rome towards Neapolis and a horseman from Neapolis to Rome.

2. Pisae is building a spearman without a barracks. It should either switch to a barracks, or--if it's going to become our new worker pump, which seems reasonable to me--to a worker, with minor waste of shields.

3. We can turn the research rate down a notch and still discover Polytheism in three turns.

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by Greebley
Knights require iron as well (unless you are India).

The only upgrade we can do is archer->longbowmen and eventually spear->muskets (if we have salt). Note that this may make archers the best build once we get enough horsemen for our immediate purposes.

[Edit: For below; I think the AI's have map-making so we don't need to research it ourselves, of course. We want it for the reasons below, but only need to research it ourselves if the great library is a bust]

For this reason, I would keep research at maximum. Get Monarchy and MapMaking before stopping. Mapmaking could be very useful if we could find a two-bit island with iron. A rushed harbor would give us the iron - even a single turn could allow us to upgrage. Also for monarchy, we may get there first so even with the GL the research may benefit us.

I wonder if it might not be a bad idea to build a an army with our first GL, get a cheap win, and then send it out as a scout. The computer does not usually attack armies. We can use this to scout out the Viking (and babylon) iron and see if we are going to be able to get it anytime soon.

You are right, I totally forgot about the Iron needs for Knights.

Agree we make an army first. We can use it to both scout and pillage.

Contiune on with max research.

N Pike, agree with your comments, I'll implement them my first turn.

 

[mad-bax]

Since the vikings have iron, and we must have it for our UU, knights and railroad, have we considered an archer rush? The vikings are not going to be that strong since they have lost a lot of shields to us already. I want their iron.