Space-1: War While Waiting

[a space oddity]

Seems like we actually have a tie here, since I originally had Karasu down for Persia too.

So I'll go wth Greebley's suggestion and let Ted decide on the matter, since he'll be forced to choose between Rome and Persia. No more dreams of Joan, it's the X-Man or Ceasar for for you.

Rome - Handy, Greebley, Pike
Persia - Mad-bax, Karasu, Space

 

[Karasu]

Ok, then, we'll have to win this one too...

What about the roster then... I mean the order: who is going to get us started? I have some ideas, but I'll keep them to myself...

 

[a space oddity]

Hmm, yes, the actual order... I have some ideas too.

Actually, I don't see so much wrong with the way it is, I'll change the first post.

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by a space oddity
Actually, I don't see so much wrong with the way it is...

I knew it... and, btw, very nicely put, Space.

 

[mad-bax]

I object to Ted being after me in the roster. He always picks me up on my moves.

Only joking...... I think.

 

[TedJackson]

"Cry `HAVOC' and let slip the dogs of war!"
William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I

Just be careful not to step in the pooh

Edit: Just pass the bong along with the save MB. Then I'll be much more relaxed about dubious moves


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Rome it is then, alea jacta est, morituri te salutant!. Actually I'm much more optimistic than that, go team!

When the save is up, so will MB be. Ted is 'on the bench'.

The floor is free for tactical discussion. So we are the Roman, tech gaining will be extra hard and will have to have our undevided attention. Which ones will be our first goal? (my suggestion would be Math and Iron)

Exploration should be done verrrrry carefully.

 

[mad-bax]

Does that mean I'm not allowed my usual farmer gambit opening?

 

[a space oddity]

The job at hand is staying alive. If you manage to do that with a farmer gambit, it's OK. I don't know what Ted will say though.

But seriously, landgrab stays as important as ever.

 

[TedJackson]

Barracks as first or second build for every city except capital. Dense build (not quite ICS) to allow units to support more than 1 city.
Build Warriors not Spears.
Build Horses not MDI.
Don't upgrade Legions, use them instead of Pikes for defense (they're just as good).
Beeline for IW, Great Lib, Maths then Monarchy. We might get lucky with some first contacts to get something we need.
Build Markets then Libs ASAP as we'll have to do all our own research after the initial contact trading.

Just some of the lessons I've learnt. Sorry to be abrupt but I've got to dash out now. Expand a bit when I get back.


Ted

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by mad-bax
I don't object to Rome, but just for the hell of it..
I was being facetious when I said I liked the English start. My vote was really for the Persians. I should have used more smilies, or better still, proper English.

But Rome it is. Hail Caesar Spaceous!

If we had been asked to rank them by easiest start Persia would have gotten my vote. However, Rome looks very winnable, and I have a soft spot for the Baccus. Furthermore, the defense of our UU will come in very handy me thinks. And if the RNG is in a giving mood our UU's offense may get us the Pyramids as well as the GL.

Originally posted by TedJackson
Barracks as first or second build for every city except capital. Dense build (not quite ICS) to allow units to support more than 1 city.
Build Warriors not Spears.
Build Horses not MDI.
Don't upgrade Legions, use them instead of Pikes for defense (they're just as good).
Beeline for IW, Great Lib, Maths then Monarchy. We might get lucky with some first contacts to get something we need.
Build Markets then Libs ASAP as we'll have to do all our own research after the initial contact trading.
Ted

I'm mostly in agreement.
Handy is a team player, I will speak my mind (in of course) before the decisions are made, but if the team decides to go in a certain direction, Handy will stick to the plan.
* Dense build is a must. Are we under Lkender¡'s "RCP rules" in this game. The lower corruption of RCP is a big plus in AWM.
* I would strongly suggest walls as the first build in our cities near the front, even before barracks.
* We cannot push our front too far from the capital early on unless it is well fortified (like 12 defense points) with a "bait city" further bask in our lands. It takes too long to build walls & barracks in a low corruption city far from home, and the AI will attack with little pause. We will have to build production cities in safe locations.
* Must plan & build a kill zone with ample bait to force/lure the AI there. For the lurkers out there, a kill zone is flat land next to our fortified position (city, hills or mountains). AI walks to the flat land (no forests allowed) & we kill AI units after the cats bombard. We kill the AI units on the turn they walk up before they can fortify. Best if the kill zone has roads so our horses can retreat after they kill the last AI unit. We never leave one of our units exposed on the flats by itself for the AI to attack.
* I also less strongly suggest spears for the areas near our kill zone, at least until our UU comes on board. Spears upgrade all game long, and since we are at war all game long... well I tend build a lot of spears. Muskets & rifles kill a lot of cavalry in a city on hills behind walls.
*Good idea to build horses & no upgrade of legions. Horsemen knock off the last low hp enemy in our kill zone then retreat to safety. Useful upgrades too.
* GL is the top #1 priority Suggest we set aside a city (on a river if possible) with hills & plains very early for the pre-build. Then improve & join workers into the city. If we miss the GL in a continents game, degree of difficulty increases dramatically. We'll be trying to move troops to the other continent while we are attacked by everyone's ironclads.
If get a really early leader we can consider the Pyramids. Pyramids help us, and also deny the use to the AI.
* In solo games I build lots of catapults. I set one aside at least one city as a cat factory. Cats will miss often, but the bombardment will catapult the kill ratio & leader production to high levels.
* Build a lot of workers. You must make yourself do this as your inclination is to build military. An early worker factory is a good idea. After the obvious city builds, build high corruption cities near the north of our empire will enough food to produce 1 workers each 10 turns worst case.

Let loose the dogs...

 

[a space oddity]

@Handy: We're (or at least I am) not looking for the easiest game here, but we (I) do like to win.

I would have voted the English if I had not wanted to play the Persians. I missed the Open Immortal Conquest earlier and I have never played the Persians other then an opening to try a specific strat. It's all immaterial in the end, as you can tell by the setup and choices, I like things random, not pre-cooked.

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by a space oddity
@Handy: We're (or at least I am) not looking for the easiest game here, but we (I) do like to win.

Agreed. If there is no hill to climb, there is no challenge. Much more fun to think our way out of the hole, and AWM is definitly a hole.

As our fearless leader you (in my eyes at least) have final say. If anything I suggest appears too unbalancing to you, I won't complain. I'm interested in being a good teammate and having fun.

 

[a space oddity]

Wow, Handy, your post increased a bit since I reacted to it.
I will update the first post with the save and the rules tonight. I play under honourable rules (see RBCiv) and dislike RCP, but if there are some good sites at equal distances then we're lucky.
For city placement we should go for the CxxC pattern to make troop movement quick (you know: build a unit in your core, move it to the second city, move the unit that was there to the third, etc, all the way out).
I agree with lots of catapults, hence the Math target for our research. Lots of workers always! Both can easily be build in corrupt cities.
Spears are expensive in the early game, and our Warriors will upgrade to Legions , but I do agree on the upgrade path. I guess we'll start building them when we've got Iron.

I'm sure someone will tell me when this is total BS...

 

[Northern Pike]

I think most of the basic points about surviving in a heavy-war game have been made. I particularly second what's been said about walls (a fantastically cost-effective force multiplier for a militaristic civ) and catapults.

I would just add that we need to make Heroic Epic a high priority, forming an army with our third Great Leader at latest. In ordinary games the math on HE doesn't always work out, since it may not boost the final Leader yield by more than the one it (indirectly) costs. But in a game like this, HE is certain to give us several extra Leaders by the moment of victory if we get it built early.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by handy900
I'm mostly in agreement.
* I would strongly suggest walls as the first build in our cities near the front, even before barracks.

I agree handy. I was a bit rushed for time so I just posted what immediately came to mind

Originally posted by handy900
* We cannot push our front too far from the capital early on unless it is well fortified (like 12 defense points) with a "bait city" further bask in our lands. It takes too long to build walls & barracks in a low corruption city far from home, and the AI will attack with little pause. We will have to build production cities in safe locations.
* Must plan & build a kill zone with ample bait to force/lure the AI there. For the lurkers out there, a kill zone is flat land next to our fortified position (city, hills or mountains). AI walks to the flat land (no forests allowed) & we kill AI units after the cats bombard. We kill the AI units on the turn they walk up before they can fortify. Best if the kill zone has roads so our horses can retreat after they kill the last AI unit. We never leave one of our units exposed on the flats by itself for the AI to attack.

Agreed

Originally posted by handy900
* I also less strongly suggest spears for the areas near our kill zone, at least until our UU comes on board. Spears upgrade all game long, and since we are at war all game long... well I tend build a lot of spears. Muskets & rifles kill a lot of cavalry in a city on hills behind walls.

I think this will depend on the situation we find ourselves in.

I'm not totally against Spears but for 20 shields you can either have 1 Spear or 2 Warriors. As Warriors upgrade to our UU I'm definitely leaning that way. When you also consider that Legionaries defend at 3 rather than the Spears 2 it just adds to that leaning.

All the above is based on an ideal situation where we have Iron (not necessarily connected, but easily available) and Iron Working. There is a place for Spears in our Armies but they aren't as compelling as Warriors/Legions for the early game.

Originally posted by handy900
*Good idea to build horses & no upgrade of legions. Horsemen knock off the last low hp enemy in our kill zone then retreat to safety. Useful upgrades too.

I'm playing in another game where Legions were being upgraded & it just made me aware that it isn't the best use for them. It's not a bad thing to upgrade a few but if you go the Warrior/Legionary route then you lose your best defenders.

Originally posted by handy900
* GL is the top #1 priority Suggest we set aside a city (on a river if possible) with hills & plains very early for the pre-build. Then improve & join workers into the city. If we miss the GL in a continents game, degree of difficulty increases dramatically. We'll be trying to move troops to the other continent while we are attacked by everyone's ironclads.
If get a really early leader we can consider the Pyramids. Pyramids help us, and also deny the use to the AI.

Don't expect too much from the Great Library. We might get lucky or we might not. Either way we'll need to get our research capability up & running quite early.

Originally posted by handy900
* In solo games I build lots of catapults. I set one aside at least one city as a cat factory. Cats will miss often, but the bombardment will catapult the kill ratio & leader production to high levels.
* Build a lot of workers. You must make yourself do this as your inclination is to build military. An early worker factory is a good idea. After the obvious city builds, build high corruption cities near the north of our empire will enough food to produce 1 workers each 10 turns worst case.

All good points.

Just my (usual) random thoughts.


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Guys, I've put the save and the rules in the first post.
Mad-bax, would you do the honour of getting this game started?

 

[handy900]

Originally posted by Northern Pike
... I would just add that we need to make Heroic Epic a high priority, forming an army with our third Great Leader at latest. In ordinary games the math on HE doesn't always work out, since it may not boost the final Leader yield by more than the one it (indirectly) costs. But in a game like this, HE is certain to give us several extra Leaders by the moment of victory if we get it built early.

Agreed. As it most games, situation will ultimately dictate what we do.

The 5 turns later is a good idea. War takes a long time and the late turns get long.

FYI for all. I go to preferences & turn the battle animations off (speeds up AW turns). I also turn on colorblind help & something else ("city shadow boxes". ) becasue I just like what they do & how they look. I will try my very best to remember to turn this stuff off before posting a save.

Sounds like we are ready to roll. I'm going to RB @ lunch to make sure I know the rules. I messed up & bought a woker before 1000 bc in another game, so I don't want to screw up in this one right out of the blocks.

With regards to RCP, All else being more or less equal I'll consider it, but I do like river locations & will break RCP for a river, lux, hill, etc. I'm not a pure RCP, it's just hard to totally ignore it when deciding.

Agreed on the city placement for "chaining" troop movement from city to city. Built unit goes to city A, city A's unit goes to city B, B's goes to C, etc. This is a must in this game. You can't wait around for 4 turns while a units plods to the front.

 

[mad-bax]

I'm playing.....

 

[Greebley]

Best if the kill zone has roads so our horses can retreat after they kill the last AI unit. We never leave one of our units exposed on the flats by itself for the AI to attack.

I am not sure if I follow this point. The kill zone is on movement 1 terrain by your previous definition. Therefore the horse can attack for 1 move and head back for 1 move. Roads don't seem to make much difference in the point above. The only time I see it mattering is if you want to move more than 1 after attack which would only be useful if a town was within 3 of the kill zone. Then horses could make it back to a town in 1 and get healed fast.

Or is this what the statement above meant and assumed that the kill zone has a close town (which I think is very likely)?