Space Race, Good or Bad?

[greggbert]

I always left the space race turned on because I'm nostalgic since Civ I, however, I'm finding that in Civ4 and even in Beyond the sword, going for a space race victory often results in an end-game end-turn clickfest.

On most space race games, by the time riflemen have come out, I've secured my territory, bribed allies, etc until I have that "magic" 200-300 point lead you need over the rest of the pack when you KNOW you're going to win. Then you throw all the cities into build research and then click click your way to the end of the game.


After dozens of games like this I'm thinking "that's just not fun"! I feel like I haven't used a tank in like the last 5 games! I'm considering disabling space race for good. What are your views and experiences on space race victory?

 

[AlessioCerci]

Its ok, i'll normally try and aim for domination or diplomatic but if the situation doesnt suit it then space is fine.

DO NOT DISABLE THE SPACE RACE VICTORY OPTION, cos then the AIs will have even less chance of winning. (they can only go cultural)
Instead just go for a domination win - it can be finished quciker and with more land area you'll tend to get higher scores.

You could also try and win diplo with the AP.

 

[axident]

SR = boring.

 

[jimbob27]

Leave it on... just don't persue it yourself. Thats how I usually play... In my current game, I'm going for a conquest... and theres 5 of 18 civs left.... and all 4 AI's have built the apollo programme. I've now got a challenge ahead of me.... to attack and destroy them all before somebody wins the SR! If I'd taken part in the SR myself, I would have easily kicked their arses...... however I decided to go for conquest, because it's fun.

 

[Spearthrower]

Leave it on...... if you are at that point of the game and aren't already well on your way to achieving domination/conquest.... and if you aren't pushing culture to the max.... then what else are you going to do?

Personally, I just turn the time condition off and leave the rest to the whims of the game. I may start out with the idea of persuing a domination, but it might go pear-shaped - personally at that point I'd rather change tactics and go for space than start a new game.

Also, I love the new launch and following it out into space.... very nice reward for this victory

 

[Rusty Edge]

I think Space Race is what the A.I. does best, so I think disabling it would give you an unfair advantage.

Besides, it can throw you a few surpises if you're going for a diplomatic or cultural victory, and you suddenly find somebody, such as your staunch alli Hannibal, maybe even your vassal Ghandi is pursuing the Space victory.
Do you re-tool for a space victory ? Try to dissrupt them with a war? Hurry your current strategy? I like trying to adapt.

 

[LDiCesare]

Space Victory was a clickfest in civ2 if you had 40 cities and only 5 were conributing to the race at any one time. But the more limited types of parts (structure/component/module) allowed you to need only 3 techs. And there were massive difference in speeds, the number of needed structures increased with the number of components.
In Civ IV, the techs needed for SR victory are too far from one another so you have always finished the 5(at most) components from one tech before you start the next type. This is why it's boring. We need more components of fewer kinds as in civ I and II, and there should be some ratio between structure/hull and engines too. Plus you could add booster techs like fusion. I suppose it's possible to mod the game like it was in civ II by reducing the prerq techs and increasing the number of needed parts and speed for fast ships.

 

[hoopsnerd]

I agree with the OP to some extent... Space Race is boring because it ends up being my "cop-out" victory. I get towards the end of the game and start thinking "ok, i have the lead... now what's the easiest way I can win." I'm a builder so I'm usually ahead in tech at the end and several of my cities are built for mass production... I end up thinking "building a huge army and using it to take over the world is too much work, i'll just build the spaceship cause it's easy". Then I procede with the "click-fest." Im hoping the space race is better now, like it was in civ1 (or was it 2?) where if you built a "better" ship it would reach alpha centuri faster... I think it would be cool to add a small "Space Era" with future techs that we anticipate discovering. Satellite weapons, drastic global warming, etc. You would have to build a smaller spaceship that would have to reach the moon before entering the space age, at which point you can start building the space ship that wins you the game.

I don't know if this is a good idea, but I know it would make you do a lot more "preparation" for a space race victory. Every other victory requires careful planning, with a space race you just have to get the techs and build a project quickly, which should be pretty easy considering your cities are probably already set up to get techs and build things quickly... It seems like in every game I play, Space Race is the most lucrative way to end the game for me simply because im lazy and dont feel commanding my troops all around the globe for 300 turns when I can win in a click-fest.

I realize the "Space Age" would probably require another expansion pack... "Beyond the Tank." And I'm sure there are Mods I could apply that i havent even looked for if I really wanted it like this...

 

[TheBigBabyP]

I hate the space race and never turn it on. It is to easy for me to do and I prefer a longer game. So I always turn off time and SR then go large or huge map marathon speed. I do agree that it hampers the AI some. But I prefer to go up a difficulty level instead of have the space race in. I play monarch now, and until I get to deity and win consistantly I see no reason to turn it on.

I would like to see it pushed all the way to the end of the tech tree. If you had to complete the tech tree with no gaps before moving on to space ship parts I think it would make it much harder to acheive and therfore make it worth it to me.

 

[p dandy]

Its ok, i'll normally try and aim for domination or diplomatic but if the situation doesnt suit it then space is fine.

DO NOT DISABLE THE SPACE RACE VICTORY OPTION, cos then the AIs will have even less chance of winning. (they can only go cultural)
Instead just go for a domination win - it can be finished quciker and with more land area you'll tend to get higher scores.

You could also try and win diplo with the AP.

Wait that's dependent on the AI civ (Shaka, etc) right? Doesn't the AI go after the domination victory pretty well too.

 

[Solomwi]

I play mainly for the fun of seeing my empire grow from such humble beginnings to a modern colossus, especially the parts where it grows by politely requesting that other empires hand over cities to it. Actual victory is very, very secondary. So similarly to hoopsnerd, I tend to use Space Race as a cop out victory and one more chance to flex my empire's muscle. A by-product of that approach is that I build the spaceship while playing the rest of the game as if there's life after victory, which tends to (a) give me more insight for the next game by virtue of having seen a few more situations and made a few more decisions than if I had just focused solely on getting those parts built, and (2) reduces the click-through tedium of the endgame.

On a sidenote, does anybody know if the type of a particular component you choose (new to BtS) has any effect beyond the cosmetic?

 

[agoodfella]

if you Opt out of Space Race, does that limit the units and technologies that you can research / build?

 

[greggbert]

What I really want to see is an option such that all the non-vassal AI players start to lose their minds on whatever civ is ahead in space race and do a no-holes barred assault on your capital once if they become convinced that you're going to win!

 

[Rusty Edge]

On a sidenote, does anybody know if the type of a particular component you choose (new to BtS) has any effect beyond the cosmetic?

I understand that you can launch without all of the casing, but there is a greater chance of mission failure.

If it's anything like Civ I ( and it seems like it is , graphics aside ) you can launch with one engine, but it will take longer to get there. Then again, maybe the extra engine is for safety, not speed.

 

[Spearthrower]

On a sidenote, does anybody know if the type of a particular component you choose (new to BtS) has any effect beyond the cosmetic?

No, the different graphics for each piece are just that - aesthetic and have no part to play in the function.... it's just a little nod towards the increasing level of customisation in games these days.


Personally, I find the Space Race more satisfying than Culture or Diplomacy..... and if people are finding that they are easily winning the space race then they need to move up a level.... the AI is often very strong in competing on this I've found and the new espionage system is practically designed for more interaction and back-stabbing during the Space Race.

 

[Palomino]

I like the BTS Space Race where you launch your ship and have some turns left to kill before you officially win. It gives you a chance to use several dozen nukes around the globe to get even for all those tech demands and other offenses you suffered for 6000 years. I especially like the new Tac Nukes launched from a sub fleet with their ability to avoid SDI interception.

 

[jackdog]

I would agree that if you find space race boring and a cop out perhaps a harder difficulty is where you should be. I admit recently I alos cop out to space race but am not secure enough on prince yet that its a sure thing. I used to always conquest, then domination, now space race, I don't usually go for diplo intentionally but some idiot built the UN in the game I finished last night a few turns off the pretty space graphics and I had most of the votes so what the heck.

It is a click fest and yes moving loads of troops around especially on water is a real pain and on normal speed I usually play at, as I am not good enough for these really early wins, getting domination is sometimes a race against time. Perhaps a bit more war automation where its much easier to order a load of cities to do this until they have built that many troops and then deliver them there. Perhaps a 'war machine' setting where you prioritise what units you like so they get built at that ratio automatically and immediately goto certain cities for dispersal. You could set up a troop rout by sea that meant you could order delivery overseas and just concentrate on protecting that route with ships. Anyway you get the idea.

Right now for me any win is good and the easier and earlier the better, if you are copping out move up a level, if you are coping out at diety perhaps the challange of building a real space rocket........................

 

[BlastDuke]

On a sidenote, does anybody know if the type of a particular component you choose (new to BtS) has any effect beyond the cosmetic?

Please note that I have analyzed the BtS Space race and you find the results in this thread.

 

[Seafroggys]

I just finished a really awesome Marathon game on Noble, and I was going for a Spacerace victory, but won a Domination before I could finish the ship. My industrial capacity was so high, I could concentrate on the spaceship and fight a three front war and win on all three fronts (against 3 civs, one master two vassals)!

Of course, having enough of a lead where you have Mech Infantry and Modern Armor verses Infantry, Anti-Tank, and Cavalry does help a little, but still.

 

[Yin Cognito]

Old thread, but I have to agree with Solomwi that the space race is only "boring" if:
- you don't have the patience for longer games (every other type of victory can be achieved before getting to Alpha Centauri)
- you like the war part of the game more than the building part of it
- you treat the game as "finished" or "already won" as soon as you have a lead on points or you switch to building research

The key here is the last thing in the above list. Knowing that you'll win (and not actually playing the game anymore beside the "clickfest") is what makes you feel bored. If you would still play the game thinking that the victory was not a given, then the boredom would dissapear - after all, in real life there is no certainty that once you arrive (for the first time) to a distant planet that you "thought" it was suitable for life, you'll be able to actually colonize it. It's always a question of maybe/probably, not a question of definitely. The hit and miss system of earlier CIV versions was more realistic from this point of view. Basically, you should be able to launch the spaceship and still not win the game (yet) - this would force you to not take the victory for granted and continue your gameplay looking for alternative ways to win (ranging from attempting another victory type or trying to launch another spaceship to the same / another star system or planet; in the meantime, other civs could have a better chance of winning than you, either by launching their starship to different coordinates or pursuing another victory type).

EDIT: In my opinion, I would take out the time/score victory from the game completely and replace it with a UN vote or something similar (the result of which you would not know beforehand) in 2050 AD, if no player was able to win the game before that date. There are at least three reasons for such an approach:
1. uncertainty over victory is what keeps the player(s) motivated, and not "bored"
2. time/score method would almost certainly make the US "the winner" if it would apply to real life; on the other hand, plenty of arguments could be made for other "real life winners" (e.g. Greece, Italy, India, China or even... Mongolia, since Genghis Khan influence on world history, from ethnicity/descent to commerce/technology exchange spans for centuries)
3. despite the reasonably comprehensive system of calculating the score in CIV 4, it's very hard to actually quantify the legacy and influence that a civilization has (or had through different eras), which is basically what the score system tries to do in the end