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Spec Ops doubts, Ideas and strategies.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ticio, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    I have started a game only to use a lot of Spec Ops just to see if they are useful.

    After getting the last promotion (camouflage) that give them invisibility until a enemy unit reach 1tile distance, they become quite good and are useful thanks to hit and run tactics.

    But I have some doubts after all:

    1) Camouflage promotion: They become visible after attacking? it seems so, but the description say "Only adjacent enemy units can reveal this unit". So they should be able to shoot and then retreat and still be invisible.

    I did something wrong or they become visible and is a bug?

    2) Is there a way to attack Great General with "priority objective? I can attack support units, and read somewhere on reddit that it was possible to use it on Great Generals but I couldn't on my game.


    IDEAS:

    I think that the unit is good, but is not worth the cost they have or the time to try to get their promotions (very hard as the are not good in combar and die very quickly). Maybe with some little improvements they could become more useful:

    1) Most important! let them have movement after paradroping. when they get behind enemy lines they loose a turn and they normally get kill. I think it could be interesting if they had normal movement after it so they could scape, get to a better position or just pillage the objective tile.

    It could be an ability gained with the "ambush" or "guerrilla" promotion or just inherent to the unit.

    2) To increase their XP gain, it could be interesting to add them an ability to shoot twice in a row like the other 2 land units. This way, they could win double the XP, and they are not insanely powerfull units so I think it wouldn't be OP even with the promotion "Guerrilla".

    *3) Maybe give you some strategic ressources if thet pillage this kind of tile. For example, + 5 coal/oil/Uranium if they pillage this tile.

    Maybe it is a little crazy, but it would be something different from the rest of units that do the trick like bombers or privateers. It would also add an incentive to use Spec ops and paradrop them on vital points

    *4) the ability to pillage dams and nuclear Power plants and unleashed the water and radiation. I think that right now nothing happend if you pillage them (they do not flood the tiles or let escape radiation clouds), so it could be a good alternative if they have counter spies and they are killing yours.

    This would make extreme "risk/reward" uses for the spec ops and force the enemy to move assets to patrol this vital points (as in real life).

    Maybe that is too extreme, but I think it would be very funny!!



    Strategies:

    I only have used them for jumping behind enemy lines and pillage strategic tiles (normally oil or Uranium).
    I know they are useful in the frontline too as they can snipe out support units but I was against the AI, so I didn't use it a lot.

    Are there other scenarios where I could use the Spec ops? I find them really really funny to use, so I'm hopping to have an excuse to do so!

    Thank you everyone as always!

    **Added after editing
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
    Haig and Pietato like this.
  2. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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    No bug, that's how it works also for privateers/submarines: If they attack or pillage, they remain visible until the start of the next turn, and can be attacked.
     
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  3. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    The problem with spec ops is that they have terrible combat values for their era, far below what rangers have.

    in my signature you can see a link to a unit balancing mod that has a description of why I changed spec ops to be the way they are.

    Personally spec ops only really make sense in vanilla if you use Incan Warak’aqs to dominate your foes and then need an upgrade. Power peaks at rangers, but a spec ops army with guerilla and camo is not a bad unit.
    Or if you need something that can quickly whack a barb camp if you border some snow or uninhabited islands or something. Light cavalry make better pillagers most of the time, although helicopter aluminum costs are too brutal to use them seriously. Bombers can also pillage.
     
  4. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    Yeah, unfortunately they suck. I only ever upgade them. Firaxis really need to buff them.
     
  5. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    Will that makes sense, but why doesn't it say this? Are you sure?
     
  6. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    I knew for privateers and submarines, as they are invisible from the start, and when a pirate is attacking and pillaging make sense.

    This way they are not insanely powerful.

    But I really though Spec ops would have this ability to attack and remain invisible (as is a very difficult promotion to achieve and they are ver vulnerable) as if they were wearing silencers or something like that.

    This would allow them to jump behind enemy lines, kill the objective (great general, support units) and try to return home!

    Too bad, I think this ability to attack and scape while invisible would be sick!

    Thank you very much! I will give it a shot!

    Do spec Ops have the ability like light horses to move through ZoC??

    The thing is that reach the last improvements of Spec Ops is very very dfifficult to gain.

    What I I conclude with all your comments is that for the price, training and final utility is far better to use other units.
    At the end, there is not a single motive to use spec ops (apart that they look cool).

    Maybe they could change some little things to make them useful. Like the ability to pillage and attack while remaining cover, and to paradrop and being able to move without waiting a turn as stated before.

    This way they would fulfil an unique role: To be able to disrupt behind enemy lines and make the enemy mobilize ressources looking for them as they have to get close to them to reaveal them.

    At the moment is better to use helicopter/light cavalry or bombers to do this... so no use for spec ops as they would die the same turn they paradrop wasting all the efforts improving and gaining promotions for them.

    Also, having the ability to kill great people would be fun (Not to kill, make them return to the city), so you could disrupt enemy preparation for war or delay their mprovements.
    The last one is just a silly dream, but the other 2 I really think could improve a lot the unit.
     
  7. Chefofrats

    Chefofrats Prince

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    They do not.
     
  8. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    So definitely there is not a reason to pick them instead of light cavalry.. only giving them the ability to move through ZOC (even if it is through a promotion) could improve a lot their usefulness.

    I'm getting depress, the more I know about Special Ops, the most useless they become :(
     
  9. AsH2

    AsH2 Prince

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    I know you could attack any embarked unit (to civs you're at war with) that way, but don't know if it's been changed/fixed.
     
  10. jasper

    jasper Chieftain

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    I think youre on to something with the stealth and paradrop idea. Id be fine with simply turning them into a risky cruise missle where they have temporary long range, can take out one specific target then need to find a way back out on their own.
     
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  11. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    I think one problem is that they're a dual role unit with conflicting objectives. They're half skirmisher, and half spec ops. I'm not refering to the units when I call them those, I'm refering to the roles.

    Because of this they must have two qualifiers: they must be cheap, and they must be expensive. Skirmishers are supposed to be cheap, and spec ops are supposed to be expensive. They can't do both, obviously, which is why they have an too expensive to perform one role, and too weak to perform the other.

    The obvious solution here is to split them up. A skirmisher line, possibly starting with slingers (which I call slinkies) that is strong vs. ranged and siege, but weak vs. cavalry, and a spec ops line starting with... rangers?

    So:
    Slingers>Peltasts>Skirmishers>Irregulars>guerrillas
    Rangers>Spec Ops
     
    Victoria likes this.
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    even if you could, the general does not die.
    Personally spec ops are an expendable decoy. They should be cheaper because this is the best job they do.
    I agree, however they are at their zenith as skirmishers, especially +20 skirmisher. Attacking the opposite side of a civ with pillaging is very strong and their ability to shoot then move is lovely. The cost of building them is ugh.
    I do encourage my scout to get XP but always consider her expendable because the odd are on that she will sadly meet her maker before the summit unless you spend effort in protection.
     
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  13. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    I'm sorry, I do not understand very well your point (english is not my first language), Do you mean to make 2 promotions trees so you can choose which paths to follow? or add this 2 trees to range units?

    I personally would be glad if they had a higher cost but in exchange, they should be able to perform according to this price.

    Right now, they have no excuses for their prices.
    They are too expensive for what they can really do.

    If they become useful units with a specific purpose and role that only they can accomplish, they could be expensive. However, right now, you pay a lot for tasks that other units make far better...
     
  14. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    But they would make the unit retreat to a city center. Imagine being attacked by Gran Colombia, if you could snipe out the Great Generals and the Comandantes Generales they would lose a lot of power during some turns and make a counteroffesinve easier.

    And I agree, in the past I have always chose the +5 CS anti barb but now I always choose the double XP for explorer and try to keep them alive.
    But at the end is not worth it.
    And for some reason, the "exploration" card seems to disapear after some time (I don't know exactly when).

    For sure the game is not letting you have your Special Ops with promotions easely... and yet, at the end they are not very good nor useful.

    I really hope they make some little changes to them. Only the one to be able to move just after paradroping and the ability to make floods and radiactive leaks after pillaging the districts would be awsome! And I think they are not very hard to add (I'm not a programmer so maybe is almost impossible and I'm here askig silly things XD).

    It would open a "mini game" of infiltration on enemy territory where you should try to avoid being discover and after making real damage, trty to escape before they kill the unit (I think the other way around is entertaining too, having to check or put units in "key" points of your cities to protect these strategic points).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2020
  15. Buni0ns

    Buni0ns Warlord

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    Would be interesting if someone could mod in an "airstrike" ability that was a graphically modded meteor that they could call in / use against targets.
     
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  16. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    I just had a flashbacks of starcraft with your comment XD

    Something like marking with laser could be pretty cool! but maybe it would be too much effort for them :(
     

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  17. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    It is removed (or correctly replaced by "Conquering Natives" - which hasn't the exp boost for scouting units) when Colonialism is researched.
     
  18. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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    ... And you get maybe one scout to the +20 promotion, so you get maybe one OP spec ops army if you don't exploit the hell out of the game (like killing walls in some ****** city you don't want, staying in war and leveling your skirmishers/rangers on attacking that city).
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Sounds like I am 6 months ahead of you. I sometimes take the double XP but very rarely try to keep them alive
    Screw Spec op... its the skirmisher I want. and because the unit is so weak and targeted heavily you shoudl use it full when it is best... spec op is pretty useless.
     
  20. Ticio

    Ticio Warlord

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    Oh, I see... Thank you very much for the info!
     

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