Special for Zouave: A good way to counter settler diarrhoea!(Killer cannot spell)PH76

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

I cut OCN (Optimum City Number) seriously in my Mod, then cut corruption accordingly. Even with 75% corruption and OCN of 16 on huge, it works just fine! The AI is content to settle it's area, then goes culture and military. And, it will only try to grab luxuries and resources by land grab, becasue the map is larger than 8 times 16 cities. So the AI doesn't throw settlers everywhere, but plants its cities rather smartly

The worst one stopped at around 22 cities, and I haven't seen a settler since!


Give it a shot, man, just restrict yourself so you don't seriously outbuild the AI - that would be too boring!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

here's the first game with drastically reduced OCN. Watch the year!!!!

see the open spaces between Russia nd India (me)? and north of the yellow one?

The map fills up nicely (this is average land, continents) and we get common borders (would be ridiculous to have say 10 free squares), but noone ever tried the stupid 'go through human territory and found city at the other end' thing yet! btw: most towns are in place since over 40 turns!

 

[sabo]

WHat's OCN?

 

[Chris_b_89]

what's OCN?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

sorry, Optimum City Number, in the editor under World Sizes or map sizes (mine's in German, so I don't know the English title for sure )

OCN influences corruption, so it is a good idea not to go too far over it. (that's very brief, there's a very good thread on corruption I think by etj4eagle or someone else, sorry, forgot - you might want to search for it)

 

[Chris_b_89]

Sabo you son of a *()((*& you stole my thunder!

 

[sabo]

Chris,
I hear an echo.... Do you???? HAR

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
I cut OCN (Optimum City Number) seriously in my Mod, then cut corruption accordingly. Even with 75% corruption and OCN of 16 on huge, it works just fine! The AI is content to settle it's area, then goes culture and military. And, it will only try to grab luxuries and resources by land grab, becasue the map is larger than 8 times 16 cities. So the AI doesn't throw settlers everywhere, but plants its cities rather smartly

The worst one stopped at around 22 cities, and I haven't seen a settler since!


Give it a shot, man, just restrict yourself so you don't seriously outbuild the AI - that would be too boring!

Sounds good.

(Maybe sending some Imodium-D to Firaxis. . .?)

I have an additional idea. Three of them.

1. Rival settlers upon entering my territory will, the FIRST time I order them, GET OUT OF MY CIV by the same route they came in. Doing otherwise is an act of war on me.

2. Settlers will be forbidden in the progamming to build towns on desert or tundra or jungle, unless adjacent to a resource.

3. Garrisoned colonies can NOT be overrun by a new rival town.


Point two above would require the addition of a new function for settlers: Military Base. Not a growing town, but a place where military units can heal. Sort of like a town that never grows beyond 1 or 2 and has no need for any city improvement other than walls.

 

[warpstorm]

I know I've disagreed with some of the stuff you've said in the past, but I actually really like the 3 suggestions you have here.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
OCN influences corruption, so it is a good idea not to go too far over it. (that's very brief, there's a very good thread on corruption I think by etj4eagle or someone else, sorry, forgot - you might want to search for it)

Nope that great research was not done by me (my investigation started a little after that work was done). However, I do suggest everyone to find on read that thread (it makes curroption much more understandable and dealable with).

Will have to give your OCN suggestion a try when I get back home in a few weeks.

 

[-proletarian-]

Ack, I would take your advice, but I fear it would hurt the AI too much. I'd still be free to settle at my usual pace, while they would be a little more docile on the land-grab.

 

[Machi]

Zouave,
those are wicked ideas. Especially the military base.

 

[Zouave]

Tonight we have the following:

Me: Babylonians.

Greeks nearby. 1630 BC.

I see the damn settler/spearman coming. I know this same tired act. And it happens.

They enter my territory. I tell them to get out. They ignore me. They move deeper into my territory. I tell them to get out. They ignore me. They move still deeper into my territory. I tell them "Declare War or Get Out".

"Touchy aren't you?".

They then magically TELEPORT themselves to the OTHER side of my civ, nine tiles away, to open tiles they should not even know exist, and set up a town there.

I am so sick of this sht I can't take it. It is unrealistic, bad programming, and annoying bullbleep.

The above solution for Settler Diarrhea I'm sure will help that problem - a problem Firaxis won't admit exists - but I can't see the OCN change affecting this kind of garbage described above.

I will attack the Greeks at frst opportunity. The hell with my rep; I get blamed for stuff I never did anyway.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Zouave 1. Rival settlers upon entering my territory will, the FIRST time I order them, GET OUT OF MY CIV by the same route they came in. Doing otherwise is an act of war on me.

You already have that option. Peace can be honorably cancelled by any player for any reason (except after making a treaty).

2. Settlers will be forbidden in the progamming to build towns on desert or tundra or jungle, unless adjacent to a resource.

You should restrict the human player too. Which brings up my idea of badlands. By restricting settlement until the industrial age, these areas would be spawning grounds for barbarians, (which should upgrade through the ages).

3. Garrisoned colonies can NOT be overrun by a new rival town.

As long as there is a road connecting it to the capital, perhaps.

Point two above would require the addition of a new function for settlers: Military Base. Not a growing town, but a place where military units can heal. Sort of like a town that never grows beyond 1 or 2 and has no need for any city improvement other than walls.

Fort, Castle, Fortification, Military Base -- good idea! Combine that with the badlands idea. You would have core civilizations with the standard road system, patches of underpopulated regions with connecting roads, and forts along the route. If you restricted settling in desert, tundra and jungle, then the map will look and feel much more "real."

When the industrial age begins, with new technology whichs allows the settlement of the badlands, with new resources appearing on the map, there would be a rush to control these barbarian infested areas with colonies, forts and roads to the capital.

 

[Ezekyel]

Killer, when you did that changes, what happened with the corruption levels of your cities?

 

[Knightblade pDM]

Killer, so in that case, on each map size, did you keep the corruption at 75%? Or what is it set in your mod now? Also, what's your OCN for each map size in your mod? Thanks

Oh and BTW..I went looking for that thread but couldn't find it. Can anyone post the link for me if they know the location for it?

 

[Maple]

Knightblade pDM-

Killer edited his post so I don't know if this information was in it before, but here goes:

"Even with 75% corruption and OCN of 16 on huge..."

That answer your question?

 

[Knightblade pDM]

Yeah that I have But I wanted to know what the OCN number was set at in his mod for each of the map sizes. I mean if he has his set in his mod to 16 on Huge(default is 32) then he must've edited the OCN for the smaller sizes too. I mean isn't 16 Optimal on Tiny or Small?

 

[Dark Sheer]

I just wonder, how would this affect a domination victory?

Since domination victory goes by the number of tiles occupied and the AI will try to stay within OCN limit, this might become a chance to exploit the AI for getting easier domination victory. Just a thought.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

DarkSheer: yep that's a problem I just turn domination off.

Knightblade: 16, 12, 8, 7, 6 for huge --> tiny, corruption @ 75% for all levels, no changes to buildings as far as corruption is concerned.

ezekyl: corruption stayed OK, at 75% on Monarchy even the most remote cities got 2 out of 8 production, so at size 4 or 5 and with some mining / use of forest it's acceptable.

Zouave: nice ideas! I think more differenciated terrain would be a nice idea, including blocking for settling for some terrains, maybe until certain advantages goodjob: Zachriel).

To add to your Military Base idea: if a colony gets overrun by the cultural boundaries of a town, the owner of the colony can either:

disband it after a period of 10 turns
or
pay a dividend of 10% of his turnly income, at least 2 Gold per turn, max. 10 Gold per turn to the new 'owner'.

With this rule, it might be allowed to place colonies in already controlled territory, too - well, maybe.