Specialization is for Insects

[IAM]

AI is specialized. AI can perform calculations faster and more accurately than any human. If you use calculations (specialization) to defeat the AI the AI will always win because it can calculate faster.

Example: I'm human player (broken stool specialized civ) and I am calculating building multipliers or breaking down combat odds for every possible scenario. The AI can do that faster. AI wins. Don't fight fire with fire; fight fire with water. Electricity (AI) is fire. Humans are mostly water (by weight). specialization = death

Example: AI is specialized. It needs bonuses to defeat human players (diety, immortal, etc.). Human player can use human stratagy. AI can not use human stratagy. Fight fire with water. specialization = death

Story: One island AI versus human. I (dozen ballerinas with flaming machetes non-specialized civ) AI (broken stool specialized civ). I designate my closest city to AI as designated pillage area and build improvements there for AI to stay busy pillaging. I launch a fleet (specialized AI can not do) steam along outside of visual range and hit three cities on far side of island. Raze all three cities and capitulate AI. I win. fight fire with water specialization = death

 

[Acidrain]

Library = +25% beakers.

City 1 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 2 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 3 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 4 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers

Empire1 spent 360 hammers to gain 4 x 3.75 = 15 beakers.

vs.

City 1 = Science city. 60 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 2 = GP farm.
City 3 = Production city.
City 4 = Money city.

Empire2 spent 90 hammers to gain 1 x 15 = 15 beakers.

-----------------------------------------------

Axeman = 35 hammers.
Empire1 wasted 270 hammers to get same amount beakers.
(360 - 90)/35 = 7.7 Axemen

EDIT: Added 3 more cities to Empire2 for people to understand it more.
Great person points, Beakers, Gold, Hammers. All these resources your empire uses, you must build +% buildings only once in one city in Empire2. Empire1 needs to build all +% buildings every city to keep up.
Production city builds only units mostly in Empire2.
Empire1 builds units in all cities, but has to build buildings also in all cities.

All in all, Empire1 wastes more hammers than Empire2 if it wants to be equally as advanced in all 4 gategories.
Empire2 has all the hammers in one city and wont be wasted.

I belive this will prove anything. If not oh well... cba to think a lot. ^^

 

[Shurdus]

Library = +25% beakers.

City 1 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 2 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 3 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 4 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers

Empire1 spent 360 hammers to gain 4 x 3.75 = 15 beakers.

vs.

City 1 = 60 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers

Empire2 spent 90 hammers to gain 1 x 15 = 15 beakers.

-----------------------------------------------

Axeman = 35 hammers.
Empire1 wasted 270 hammers to get same amount beakers.
(360 - 90)/35 = 7.7 Axemen

By the time empire 2 finally mnaged to build 7 axemen at what has to be a very slow rate, the opposition will have longbows. bye bye opportinity!

 

[r_rolo1]

IAM, just a reminder : this is a turn based game The human has all the time in the world to make his calcs if he wants to...

 

[Acidrain]

By the time empire 2 finally mnaged to build 7 axemen at what has to be a very slow rate, the opposition will have longbows. bye bye opportinity!

Changed it ^^

 

[IAM]

Library = +25% beakers.

City 1 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 2 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 3 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 4 = 15 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers

Empire1 spent 360 hammers to gain 4 x 3.75 = 15 beakers.

vs.

City 1 = Science city. 60 beakers -> Library = -90 Hammers
City 2 = GP farm.
City 3 = Production city.
City 4 = Money city.

Empire2 spent 90 hammers to gain 1 x 15 = 15 beakers.

-----------------------------------------------

Axeman = 35 hammers.
Empire1 wasted 270 hammers to get same amount beakers.
(360 - 90)/35 = 7.7 Axemen

EDIT: Added 3 more cities to Empire2 for people to understand it more.
Great person points, Beakers, Gold, Hammers. All these resources your empire uses, you must build +% buildings only once in one city in Empire2. Empire1 needs to build all +% buildings every city to keep up.
Production city builds only units mostly in Empire2.
Empire1 builds units in all cities, but has to build buildings also in all cities.

All in all, Empire1 wastes more hammers than Empire2 if it wants to be equally as advanced in all 4 gategories.
Empire2 has all the hammers in one city and wont be wasted.

I belive this will prove anything. If not oh well... cba to think a lot. ^^

You have specialized your example. Library gives an early culture boost for expanding borders (underrated), it allows you to run a two scientist, it gives a beaker boost +25% and it is intellectually pleasing. I wouldn't want to live in a city without a library. Who would? fight fire with water specialization = death

r rolo1 yes it is turn based but no matter how long you take to calculate the 'perfect' (specialized) strategy the AI can always beat a calculated strategy. It's not your ability to calculate that forces the game to give the AI bonuses to fight you. It's your human stratagy. fight fire with water specialization = death

 

[Acidrain]

Ah trolling topic. I fell for it.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

Actually, a science fiction writer, even Heinlein, isn't an authoritative source.

Especially since that part of the quote is sarcastic. Can you do all the things he lists? No. His point was that human beings are specialized to an even higher degree than insects.

 

[DrakenKin]

Especially since that part of the quote is sarcastic. Can you do all the things he lists? No. His point was that human beings are specialized to an even higher degree than insects.

+1

This general strategy of building all cities equal sounds good on paper, but imo won't work well in practice. Have you tried it on emperor+ and did it work?

However in all fairness, this method is nice if you play lower difficulty levels and want to play fast games. Building generic cities help you speed up the game in noble and lesser since it is one less aspect to worry about. After all optimizing cities when you don't really need that specific edge to win is a waste of time.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Wow, IAM writes better Attacko strategies then Tracko himself!

 

[naterator]

Wow, IAM writes better Attacko strategies then Tracko himself!

I dunno, "what is strategy" to me started out as a great attacko work, definitely better than his other stuff lately which was just spammy and stupid. This one is kind of... lacking. It just seems forced to me. I tend to agree with rolo that one troy is enough (except when it's too much). Or maybe i'm just comfortable with the troll who's lived under our bridge for years.

 

[The Dark One]

Ah trolling topic. I fell for it.

Yeah, me too. I think the OP is either (a) having a laugh or (b) just plain crazy. Thank you, IAM, and good night.

 

[Silu]

Yeah, me too. I think the OP is either (a) having a laugh or (b) just plain crazy. Thank you, IAM, and good night.

You know, my guess is both. They usually tend to go hand in hand

Only upside in this when compared to troy was the surprise factor, though it evaporated halfway into the post as well.

 

[IAM]

Specialization is like a pair of scissors. It's a one function tool that doesn't work very well as a screw driver or bottle opener.

Non-specialized civ is like a Swiss Army knife. Versatile and useful in many applications. Those not use to a Swiss Army knife will laugh at it's plethora of attachments. But it is a functional tool for human minds.

Application: A machine arm can be programmed to use scissors. It is a simple two way motion. Humans can be taught to use scissors and since it is simple (specialized) motion it is easy to master. But a human that only uses scissors when they can use the Swiss Army knife will always be missing something.

Thought: Mastering a simple tool (specialized civ) has a social reward in group think. Using the Swiss Army knife has rewards beyond. It is the human thing.

Personal story: I saved money and bought a Swiss Army knife when I was 10 or 12 or so. It was a lot of money. 50 American dollars or so. Almost 3 decades later I sit at a computer with the knife in front of me. I'm holding it up to see... Well then just imagine it. It's a dig red one with lots of tools for a human. fight fire with water specialization = death

 

[TheMeInTeam]

By the time empire 2 finally mnaged to build 7 axemen at what has to be a very slow rate, the opposition will have longbows. bye bye opportinity!

I don't know about you, bust most people can come up with those kinds of hammers pre-longbows unless they're playing deity.

 

[champ82]

The OP is crazy

Yeah, build a bank, uni, observatory in your heroic epic city, no don't even build heroic epic as it will foster specialization which is like the ant who has been here well before we were and will be here long after we're gone, draft from your Oxford city, who cares if it kills a scientist or a maturing village…wait no this is crazy, more importantly it is a loser’s game.

The OP has a point

1.)If you want Wall St. you need 6 banks.
If you want Oxford you need 6 libraries and unis.
If you want Globe Theater you need 6 theaters.

The likelihood that you will need these 6 pre-requisite buildings in 6 different cities is low in my experience (the 6 libraries / unis is not so bad.)

2.) I’m still a sucker for multiplier buildings in basically all of my cities. No point in having a high city that will be a requisite library / uni or bank city have such low production it can’t do this in a timely matter. In my most recent game (victory), most cities had some cottages and some workshops.

3.) I am blindly speculating this approach may be more valid on multi-player, but I really don’t know what I’m talking about…can’t enter the gamespy lobby…don’t know why .

Approach – Vague suggestions that are “just so crazy they might work”, “proving” the strategy by making comparisons to events (or in this instance objects) in real life, no screenshots, no saves…hmm…I’ve read this sort of thing before…can’t place it…oh wait yes I can…and so can everybody else.

 

[champ82]

AI is specialized.

The AI is so specialized it
-builds cottages in it’s HE city.
-doesn’t change weights invested in me even though I crank mine up towards them and ruin their space projects.
-will research stealth in a close space race.
-will build Versailles and Forbidden Palace very close to it’s capital.
etc.

 

[mercury529]

He has a point. Specialization is terrible. This thread is one such example. He devoted an entire thread to this topic. If we all ignore the specialization of this thread, it would have a lot more value.

Allow me to start. Anyone else hate it when the AI attacks you before turn 60? I remember a solid deity start that was completely wrecked by a war on turn 58. I even popped BW in the game (unfortunately no copper to be found), and I had still had no chance to stop a 4 axe, 2 swordsmen, 2 archer rush.

 

[KaytieKat]

Specialization is like a pair of scissors. It's a one function tool that doesn't work very well as a screw driver or bottle opener.

Non-specialized civ is like a Swiss Army knife. Versatile and useful in many applications. Those not use to a Swiss Army knife will laugh at it's plethora of attachments. But it is a functional tool for human minds.

Application: A machine arm can be programmed to use scissors. It is a simple two way motion. Humans can be taught to use scissors and since it is simple (specialized) motion it is easy to master. But a human that only uses scissors when they can use the Swiss Army knife will always be missing something.

Thought: Mastering a simple tool (specialized civ) has a social reward in group think. Using the Swiss Army knife has rewards beyond. It is the human thing.

Personal story: I saved money and bought a Swiss Army knife when I was 10 or 12 or so. It was a lot of money. 50 American dollars or so. Almost 3 decades later I sit at a computer with the knife in front of me. I'm holding it up to see... Well then just imagine it. It's a dig red one with lots of tools for a human. fight fire with water specialization = death

Hi

I like the swiss army knife example cause it think it good example about how specialization is a GOOD thing in civ game. Ideally each city in your empire should have a specific purpose and be optimized to fuflill that purpose. Having an empire all doing the exact same thing in the exact same way would be like having a swiss army knife where everyblade is exactly the same.

Blades of swiss army knife all designed to be optimal for specific purposes and the cities of your empire should be like that ideally.

I guess I shouldnt say "should" as in I mean its some kind of rule or law or something(not that my word being absolute law would be BAD thing hehe ) just that doing it that way tends to make the game easier more often than not.

Kaytie

 

[bitplayer]

I always play huge maps so I agree with the guy a bit. Maybe its because Im lazy or maybe its because Im too poor of a player, but, when I have more cities than I know what to do with I make most of them into hybrids as well.

Its a complex game and there is more than one way to win imo.