Specialization of Cities

iwas

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One of the biggest ways Civ4 is different from Civ3 is in the way we choose locations for cities.

In Civ3, city placement was a sort of checklist, and the cities with the most checks were usually the best. Fresh water, check. Hills/mountains for production, check. Food tiles for growth, check. Resources, check. On the coast, check. And so on; you wanted the best checklist cities possible because with the exception of cultural victory cities and maybe super science cities (with double sci wonders), all cities really did the same thing. This is not so in Civ4, and when I first made the transition the need to specialize cities was one of the things that was most confusing to me. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Why Specialize?
There are a number of factors that force us to specialize our cities. They are, in no particular order:
-Great People system. The nature of GP makes it far more beneficial to have one city produce a ton of GPP than have a bunch of cities all make a little bit of GPP.
-Roads no longer produce commerce. In Civ3, we didn't need to make commerce-specific cities because every large, fully roaded (or RRed) city produced a lot of commerce on its own. This is not so in Civ4; you need to build a specific improvement (cottage) in order to increase a tile's commerce.
-National wonder complement each other, but you can only build 2 per city. It is a great idea to have Heroic Epic and West Point in the same city; it will build military units faster and give them bonus experience to boot. Since the national wonders usually give a percent benefit to one aspect of a city's production, it obviously behooves us to ensure that the aspect recieving the bonus is as high as possible.
-# of city upkeep forces us to limit the number of cities we found. This is probably the biggest difference from Civ3. There was a penalty from founding too many cities in Civ3 (corruption), but it was nowhere near as crippling as the penalty is in Civ4. Since we are severely limited in the number of cities we can make, we obviously want to make the most of those cities. (One thing that strikes me as odd about this is the dissolution of colonies in Civ4. If the game is designed to discourage founding a city specifically to get an important resource, shouldn't there be a built in alternative?)
-Culture provides a defensive bonus. This means that in addition to any logistical benefits, a few high culture cities will always be easier to defend than a horde of low culture cities.
-Religion! Simply put it is easier to spread religion to all of your cities if you have less cities.

So now that we have a good idea of why it specializing is good, lets look at the three basic types of cities.

The House of Commerce, aka Moneybag City, Goldsville
Essentially, this is a city that is designed to get as much commerce as possible. You will end up building cottages on almost every tile in the city's fat t, but it is important to have enough food to ensure that the city grows quickly. This city will have lots of gold (and therefore science), so it behooves you to build +% gold/science improvements here (depending on what you are doing at the time)!

When looking for places for commerce cities, remember that while eventual gold production is important, you also need to consider the speed at which the city will reach its optimal size. You could have the highest gold city in the world and it would be useless if it takes all game to get to size 6.

You have to balance this need for food with early cottage placement, however. Cottages take a long time to grow fully, and need to be worked in order to grow. You need to be wary of the opposite of the high-gold-no-people commerce city; the high-people-no-towns commerce city. Balance working food tiles and cottages while your commerce city grows.

Consider rivers carefully. Rivers provide a bonus to both commerce and, through farming, food. You need to decide whether to use a river for your commerce city or for...

The GP Farm aka Specialistville, Wondertown.
This city is built on pure population, converted into specialists to produce GPP. In low levels you can usually count on wonders to produce a good amount of GPP, but specialists are more reliably attainable and above all, convertable.

Look for fertile ground with lots of bonus food. If you also want to get wonders for GPP, you will need a good amount of production as well, so some hills would probably be nice too.

Obviously, it would be a good idea to get +GPP improvements/wonders here. National Epic (I think thats what it's called) should go here for sure.

One more thing - never put super-specialists in your GP Farm. GP Farms usually produce a fair amount of culture/beakers/commerce just by having so many specialists, but never forget that their primary purpose is making GP. Put the super-specialists in a place that could really use the extra production, like...

The Factory, aka Anviltown, Hill-Land, Detroit
What the house of commerce is for money and the GP farm is for food, the factory is for production. This city, when fully developed, should be capable of producing a ton of hammers per turn, and be fully endowed with national wonders that increase either production or the benefits of it. I have already mentioned my personal favorite combination of nat'l wonders for the factory: Heroic Epic and West Point. Other combinations are possible too, most using Iron Works in some way. It is sometimes necessary to distinguish between a military factory and a wonder/SS/other factory.

What I said about the commerce city and growth holds true for the factory as well; you need to emphasis production, yes, but the city also has to grow. Remember, you can put a factory on the coast too, for mass production of ships.
 
Obviously, it is very difficult to have every single city in your empire be specialized in one direction (especially if you didn't found the cities). Use common sense and don't be too afraid to found a hybrid.

In addition to knowing what sort of cities you can build, you should know when to go for what type. It is when deciding which strategy to go for that Civ4 really begins to shine; there are so many considerations and layers of strategy that it is impossible to say what is best for every situation, but I think I can spew out some general guidelines:

Consider your leader traits when deciding where to found your core! A financial civ should make getting a commerce city a priority; a philisophical leader should seriously consider a GP farm almost immediately. It is important to maximize your benefit from both of your leader's traits.

Choose your civics carefully, as to maximize your advantages and minimize your disadvantages. If your GP farm is booming, but your commerce city is lagging behind (and thus slowing your research), you should seriously consider Representation. Don't become addicted to any one civic! They are all viable, and will remain so throughout the game (except for the civics that Emancipation kind of kills.)

Have an overall plan! I cannot stress this enough. In Civ4, more than ever, it is important to start reaching for your eventual goals at the beginning of the game. You want some flexibility of course; it doesn't work to be hell-bent on military conquest and then discover you lack Copper and Iron. But whenever you found a city, ask yourself, "How does this city help me reach my overall goal?"

I hope you guys find this article-thing helpful.
 
Nice article man!:goodjob:

However, I have some question to ask... Is it necessary to optimal all the specialist city's population to 20 (of coz GP farm for sure)? Coz it is relatively difficult for Money-bag city or the Factory city to grow. Or specialization is just a stretegy for late-game?
 
Nice stab at an article :goodjob:. A couple of comments/nitpicks, though:

iwas said:
By the same token, its a good idea to build Wall Street and Oxford in the same city; you want to build them both in a very high commerce city. Since the national wonders usually give a benefit to one aspect of a city's production, it obviously behooves us to ensure that the aspect recieving the bonus is as high as possible.

You usually do NOT want Wall Street and Oxford in the same city as your main gold producer will usually be different from your main researching city. I find that IF I found a religion the holy city is a good one to produce Wall Street (from the income generated from the shrine) while Oxford often should go in the high commerce city (since you usually want to be on 90% or 100%). Also, The Spiral Minaret is another good wonder to build in the commerce city as you can focus it.

iwas said:
-# of city upkeep forces us to limit the number of cities we found. This is probably the biggest difference from Civ3. There was a penalty from founding too many cities in Civ3 (corruption), but it was nowhere near as crippling as the penalty is in Civ4. Since we are severely limited in the number of cities we can make, we obviously want to make the most of those cities. (One thing that strikes me as odd about this is the dissolution of colonies in Civ4. If the game is designed to discourage founding a city specifically to get an important resource, shouldn't there be a built in alternative?)

I think they're trying to encourage more diplomatic solutions (i.e., trading).

iwas said:
-Culture provides a defensive bonus. This means that in addition to any logistical benefits, a few high culture cities will always be easier to defend than a horde of low culture cities.
-Religion! Simply put it is easier to spread religion to all of your cities if you have less cities.

Overall, I'm not sure why having less cities means that you need to specialize. I see it as two completely separate beasts. Is there a specific reason why you think that having less cities means you should specialize (I might be missing the obvious, so please show me what I'm missing if I am.)

iwas said:
This city will have lots of gold (and therefore science), so it behooves you to build +% gold/science improvements here! Get a marketplace, grocer, bank, as well as a university, observatory, etc.

It will have a lot of COMMERCE, NOT gold (I hate what Firaxis did with the icons - that was just a major brain fart, IMO). You often do NOT want to be building the marketplace, grocer, bank, etc. as sometimes it's just a waste of time in most cities (as a lot of the times in the game, you want to be at 100% Science).

iwas said:
Consider rivers carefully. Rivers provide a bonus to both commerce and, through farming, food. You need to decide whether to use a river for your commerce city or for...

Rivers are nice, but a MAJOR factor (at least in the long run) for a commerce city is whether that city is on the coast. I've found that coastal cities not only have tiles which naturally produce commerce, but also have more buildings to improve commerce (The Colossus, The Great Lighthouse, Harbor) AND better trade routes (they can each something like 40-50 commerce in Modern Times compared to a land bound ~10 - of course, part of this is the Harbor bonus). Also, this does assume you have civs that you have open borders with. If you don't have open borders with very many civs, then, the city being coastal isn't as important.

iwas said:
One more thing - never put super-specialists in your GP Farm. GP Farms usually produce a fair amount of culture/beakers/commerce just by having so many specialists, but never forget that their primary purpose is making GP. Put the super-specialists in a place that could really use the extra production, like...

I think this would depend on the super-specialist (if you were specifically going to a use a GP for that). Sometimes having a couple more hammers (from the Priest or Engineer) in a production poor GP Farm is more important than having more hammers in a really hilly, production-heavy city. Also, Scientist and Artists usually do better in Commerce-focused cities. (Merchants for GOLD-focused or for a city that could really use the food bonus like the Factories).

Req
 
Regarding seperating Gold+Science cities, it is a good idea if you have a good Holy City (because you will be running near 100% science so commerce=Science not gold), however the Spiral Minaret apparently does not give itself gold, instead it gives all the buildings in the outlying cities gold (unlike the shrine)

So the requirement for a Gold city is really only a good Holy City+Shrine(s). +Wall Street


The one National Wonder that Doesn't seem to be useful for specialization (because it doesn't benefit the whole civilization through that city) is the Hermitage [exception is if you are going for cultural win] Because I believe that all the benefits of culture are location specific.
 
I appreciate the thread, but strongly agree with many of the points Requies makes.

I severely messed up on my first game because I didn't realize there was a limit on 2 National Wonders per city. My capital had become the center of Hinduism and I was making a ton of gold from the religious wonder (it was also a harbor city with good trade routes), but I had already built 2 National Wonders by the time Wall Street came around...doh!

There is a tough balance in the game between food and commerce. The farm is such a poor improvement early in the game compared to towns (even on a river tile), but that extra food tile is sometimes really important. I'm finding towns with great commerce resources (silver, gold, incense), but I don't have the food to support them without making farms. The truth is towns with a few good food tiles (fish, cows or rice) can ramp up in population really fast and start in on cottages by population 3-4. By mid-game they are making more commerce than the original town you thought would be so great.

The cottage/farm/windmill/mine/waterwheel/lumberyard debate is such a complex problem. It's what really makes the micromanagement of your cities tick and throws a complex kink into evaluating city sites. What may appear to be a good Money/Science/GP/Factory city may not be if you don't really manage and plan out your food.

Just my 2 cents.

Joel
 
Gah, the gold/commerce thing tricked me :[ I'll edit the original post.
 
Requies said:
It will have a lot of COMMERCE, NOT gold (I hate what Firaxis did with the icons - that was just a major brain fart, IMO). You often do NOT want to be building the marketplace, grocer, bank, etc. as sometimes it's just a waste of time in most cities (as a lot of the times in the game, you want to be at 100% Science).

This one really confused me at first. I've been building tons of gold-enhancing buildings in all my cities to improve tech development - I figure that each city will generate more gold, so that when I increasing my tech slider it will help me create more science. Nope, as you pointed out it, doesn't work that way .... at 80%-100% science, these buildings are doing almost nothing for me.

When do you want to generate a lot of gold (not commerce), anyway? Mainly for trading with the AI? Offsetting civic costs and city maintenance costs?
 
beestar said:
This one really confused me at first. I've been building tons of gold-enhancing buildings in all my cities to improve tech development - I figure that each city will generate more gold, so that when I increasing my tech slider it will help me create more science. Nope, as you pointed out it, doesn't work that way .... at 80%-100% science, these buildings are doing almost nothing for me.

When do you want to generate a lot of gold (not commerce), anyway? Mainly for trading with the AI? Offsetting civic costs and city maintenance costs?

The bolded statement is the main one for me. Of course, you should probably ask other players since I'm mainly play on Prince (I guess I could be playing Monarch, but I just don't like the cheating that much :p).

Req
 
beestar said:
When do you want to generate a lot of gold (not commerce), anyway? Mainly for trading with the AI? Offsetting civic costs and city maintenance costs?

Offsetting costs, yes, but I think the primary reason to generate a lot of gold (not commerce) is to use universal sufferage to hurry (buy) a lot of things. Say you're worried about someone completeing wonder x, well, if you you drop your research low enoug that you're generating 2000+ gold / turn, it won't be long until you can just buy the wonder :) Also, sometimes after you research a new building becomes available, and sometimes it is more efficient to drop down your science bar for two turns so you can hurry the production of the new building in every city you have, and then return things to what they were doing before.
A further use is during military times of invasion, with a little insight to where your enemy is going to attack, you can generate a lot of gold to upgrade the out-dated units in that city to modern ones. If you know you will have the cash available to do so, you don't have to worry so much about keeping everything up-to-date (as long as you pay attention :) )
 
Some other situation specific specialist cities I have used to good effect.

1A Battleship factory:
Coastal production city : 26 base hammers.
Forge + factory + power + drydock + ironworks + heroic epic (a recycling centre is areally good idea to!) = + 350% (25% + 25 % + 50 % + 50% + 100% + 100%) = 117 hammers / tuen = 1 battleship (cost 225 hammers) every 2 turns (4xp or 6 with the right civic)

1B. Submarine factory
Coastal production city : 26 base hammers.
Forge + factory + power + drydock + ironworks + heroic epic (a recycling centre is a really good idea to!) = + 150% (25% + 25 % + 50 % + 50%) = 65 hammes = 2 submarines every 5 turns.
These are very special submarines:
• 8xp (or 10xp with the right civic) gives flanking 1 and flanking 2 right out of the dock = 80% withdraw chance!
• I can attack a battleship, stand a god chance of doing some damage, then a good chance of withdrawing. Then repeat with the rest of the wolf pack.
• Medic 1 means the wolf pack can heal itself anywhere in the word without having to return to base.
• Invisible to most units, so I rarely get attacked (and loose the withdraw ability)
• Low actual losses of units, so the longer I continue the bigger by fleet gets and the quicker the attrition of the enemy fleet.
• Further promotions: 1/3 of the subs are given sentry then extra movement to act as better scouts, the rest simply pile on the combat promotions.
• If I have a battleship factory as well, the subs get used to scout, then maneuver for a 1 turn sub harass then battleship kill of their stack.

2 The Great person + riflemen factory.

A standard GP factory – many, many farms and food resources. Limited production, probably a library, aqueduct, granary, National Epic (to boost GP’s), Shakespeare’s Theatre (to keep the huge population happy). So, you’ve got yourself into a war, and really need units, not great people. Chop rush or buy or build a barracks (ideally before the war) ,drop into “Nationhood” civic, draft the population into riflemen (or whatever you current tech gives you)and enjoy the huge rush of units (1 or more per turn ) and ignore the unhappiness penalty. Once you’re in control of the war, stop drafting and let the massive food engine replace the population.

If you have a strong food city and have already built the National epic elsewhere, then you can go more specialist. Build the Theatre , Westpoint, and a barracks, and granary. Maximize your best 5-8 food squares (i.e. specialist resources and farmed floodplains). 1 population = 1 unit, with 8xp (10xp with Theology or the Pentagon.). The smaller a city is the faster it grows, so the smaller it is the faster you can farm experiences units! With an aggressive leader you could be pumping out riflemen with combat 4, or combat 1, medic 1, medic 2 and pinch, or combat 1, and city garrison 1,2,3.

3. The Super Super science city.
• Beeline for the great pyramids. Flip to Representation
• Build a forge in the pyramids city.
• Set a specialist engineer. 5GP point / turn = Great engineers in 20 turns. Revert to working the land once you’ve got the great engineer.
• Meanwhile, with a separate city build up a commerce city – make it a well sited one. Spam cottages, chop rush a library. Set a specialist scientist.
• Beeline for Literature
• Use the great engineer to rush the great library.
• Now you have 3 scientists * 6 research + 25% = 22 beakers just from the specialists. Assume a further 15 commerce after gold % deductions and you’ve got (18 + 15) + 25% = 41 beakers from the one city.
• You have 11 GP points / turn towards you’re second GP (a great scientist). Use him to make an academy in the city. Assuming 20 commerce after gold % deductions you now have 38 + 75% = 65 beakers from the city.
• Keep the scientist GP’s coming. This city may well outpace your dedicated GP factory for a while. Make sure you’re GP factory is focused on Scientists as well.
• Add the next scientist to the city as super scientist. He will give 9 beakers (6 + 3 from representation) +75% = 15.75 beakers all on his own. As you add universities, observatories and the cottages grow the city will go ballistic.
• Keep adding super scientists
• Beeline for Education. Flip your GP factory to Engineers. Use the great engineer to rush the Oxford University.
• Early Renaissance Projection : 14 population : 1 working good production square, 1 scientist, 2 farms, 2 towns, 6 villages, 2 hamlets. 8 river tiles. Printing press and libertarianism discovered. Free speech civic enabled. Library, Academy University, Oxford University built
Commerce = [2 towns] (4+2+1)*2 + [6 villages] (3+1) * 6 + [2 hamlets] 2 * 2 + [8 river tiles] 8 = 14+24+4+8 = 50 Assume 90% science = 45 base beakers
3 scientists = 18 beakers. 3 super scientists = 27 beakers.
Total beakers = (45+18+27) + (25%+25%+50%+100%) = 90 + 200% = 270 beakers
• Early Industrial Projection : 17 population : 1 working good production square, 3 farms, 8 towns, 3 villages, 2 hamlets. 8 river tiles. Scientific Method, Printing press and libertarianism discovered. Universal Sufferage (to enjoy full town production) Free speech civic enabled. Library, Academy University, Oxford University, Observatory built
Commerce = [8 towns] (4+2+1)*8 + [3 villages] (3+1) * 3 + [2 hamlets] 2 * 2 + [8 river tiles] 8 = 42+12+4+8 = 66 Assume 100% science = 66 base beakers
5 super scientists = 30 beakers.
Production = 5 (good production tile) + 8(towns) + 4 City centre + 3 (some towns / villages on plains) + 5 (Super Scinetists) =25. Producing research = 20 beakers
Total beakers = (66+30+25) + (25%+25%+50%+100%+25%) = 121 + 225% = 393 beakers


All of these cities assume no above average concentrations of special resources or leader attributes to assist you. Be leveraging leader attributes and very good city site, more spectacular results are possible.
 
robinm:
- Don't forget bureaucracy.
- Often using a great scientist to do +50% science in another city is more effective (in terms of science generated) than using it as a super specialist.
 
Quantum7 said:
robinm:
- Don't forget bureaucracy.
- Often using a great scientist to do +50% science in another city is more effective (in terms of science generated) than using it as a super specialist.

Burecracy - true, mostly for the production factories, but not for Super science city as I tend to find that tha capitol is the Pyramids city, and is to good as a general / production city hybrid to cottage spam. I'm also loath to draft my capitol population too much either, as they are gfenereally the most useful people, head for head, in the empire due to the head start the capitol tends to get in infrastructure build, and the optimal resources the map generator gives the capitol.

Super scientist > +50% in another city. On bigger maps this might well be true as you might have a number of strong commerce cities. One other reason i like to concentrate the science into one city is that I can flip the empire to 80% to 100% gold and the science infrastructure in the one super science city is still useful, as all the super scientists are still driving the library, university etc etc.

In my Indusrial example the empire can be on 100% gold, but the city will still make 30 (super scientists) + 25 (production of research) +225% = 178 research to keep the tech race moving with I save up gold for my war, or rush building the Kremlin or such like.
 
iwas said:
One more thing - never put super-specialists in your GP Farm.

Except for super merchants, those add 1 food to the city, which helps feed more specialists.
 
robinm said:
Burecracy - true, mostly for the production factories, but not for Super science city as I tend to find that tha capitol is the Pyramids city, and is to good as a general / production city hybrid to cottage spam. I'm also loath to draft my capitol population too much either, as they are gfenereally the most useful people, head for head, in the empire due to the head start the capitol tends to get in infrastructure build, and the optimal resources the map generator gives the capitol.

My capital hardly ever builds the Pyramids as it's forests have already been chopped for settlers. A newer city gets the Pyramids (in the cases that I go for it).

Bureaucracy is btw one of the few bonusses that works multiplicative. Meaning you're loosing ALOT by not having your science city be your capital.

robinm said:
Super scientist > +50% in another city. On bigger maps this might well be true as you might have a number of strong commerce cities. One other reason i like to concentrate the science into one city is that I can flip the empire to 80% to 100% gold and the science infrastructure in the one super science city is still useful, as all the super scientists are still driving the library, university etc etc.

In my Indusrial example the empire can be on 100% gold, but the city will still make 30 (super scientists) + 25 (production of research) +225% = 178 research to keep the tech race moving with I save up gold for my war, or rush building the Kremlin or such like.

Good point.

You might want to look at the great prophet / great merchant super cities then. 100% science rate + still making alot of money from a super money city may also be interesting.
 
I usually play on the continents map at difficulty Noble and I'm having a hard time finding good places. There are always a couple mountains, deserts and tundras spoiling otherwise good places. Another point is that there usually arent that much rivers for irrigation (essential for these big cities) so civil service should probably be a priority?
 
I think this is filled with some down to earth solid information, without going into minute mathematical detail.

Could there be anymore discussion now that Warlords is out and has the update of 2.08 that has changed a few things, as usual?
 
Good article, but only Great Priest and Great Engineer gives hammers. The article seems to present all "Super Specialists" as providing hammers. My specialist economy thrives on Merchants and Scientists, so those are generally the "super" specialists that i'll get.
 
A problem that I often run into occurs in my Production Cities:

I'll find a great spot to found the city; metals, hills, and forests all in the fat cross, river tiles for levees, and so on. The problem is population growth.

Because I like to run a CE, I hate to waste a tile or two on a farm when I could be pulling in the bags of gold. Frequently, the city will begin to stagnate right around 12-15. What had, at first pause, seemed to be a prime production city can be handicapped since many of its squares aren't being worked.

I'm wondering what others do in this situation. Do you sacrifice a few production tiles when you found the city (maybe including a food resource instead of a couple hills), build a few farms instead of cottages, or (what I've been trying lately), put up a windmill or two rather than mines, or have a better strategy altogether?
 
A problem that I often run into occurs in my Production Cities:

I'll find a great spot to found the city; metals, hills, and forests all in the fat cross, river tiles for levees, and so on. The problem is population growth.

Because I like to run a CE, I hate to waste a tile or two on a farm when I could be pulling in the bags of gold. Frequently, the city will begin to stagnate right around 12-15. What had, at first pause, seemed to be a prime production city can be handicapped since many of its squares aren't being worked.

I'm wondering what others do in this situation. Do you sacrifice a few production tiles when you found the city (maybe including a food resource instead of a couple hills), build a few farms instead of cottages, or (what I've been trying lately), put up a windmill or two rather than mines, or have a better strategy altogether?

I never cottage squares in a production city (PC). It justs tempts me to build loads of commerce buildings there, which aren't really worth it anyway. A PC is a PC and hence it's farms, mines, workshops & mills all the way.

My problem is just never committing to enough PCs. I struggle to found two before industrial age war expansion because I seem to find all spots more suitable as Commerce Cities (CC).

Also, I don't mind some overlap between a PC and a CC as long as the overlap is cottagefriendly - the important tiles early on for the PC is the appropriate resources (food/metal) and hills, while the CC can happily have the overlapping grasslands. Of course, in the beginning the PC might be a CC growing cottages for the CC, that are turned over when mills and workshops come into play and the PC is converted into a pure PC.
 
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