*Spoiler1* Gotm18-Celts - Full World Map

[hotrod0823]

Looking at some of the minimaps posted here it is evident (at least from this small sample) that war = slow tech pace. Peaceful building = faster pace.

More military spending/upgrade means less gold for research, less gold for libraries and universities, less gold going to AI hands for there research.

By staying out of wars I save money for tech spending, self research or purchase. My biggest cash drain is the money paid out for techs, hopefully that will change soon, money for lux, and infrastructure (granaries, temples, cathedrals, libraries, a few barracks to keep the ai honest, etc.). One thing of note I have also spread the gold around. The AI has been less likely to attack if they are getting a cash payment each turn.

I am hoping for culture flips do to my superior culture but haven't had any yet. Clearly a passive aggressive approach.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by mad-bax
The tech pace in my game mirrors Moonsingers. AI got Engineering in 550ish AD. In every other respect my game is inferior obviously.

Looking at your map, your game isn't inferior in anyway. If your game is inferior, mine is even worst. I think our tech pace is so slow in this game because the only scientific civ in the game started in the middle of the forests and hills. There are just too many forests and hills in this game. I have over 75 workers working overtime, but they haven't yet clear many forests and most of the hills around my core cities are still unroad and unmined.

If I wasn't so lazy I could have colonized the barb peninsula and had many coastal cities and researched faster. I think that those people who control a relatively small proportion of the map will have a tough time with techs.

That barb peninsula is a perfect training camp for elite troop. Since I haven't yet completely explore that region, I'm not sure what is up there, but I got attacked by 3 to 6 barb horsemans in every turn. Most of my knights got their elite status from those barbs. I have too many elite knights and not enough war to fight. By the time my elite knights traveled from the training camp to the frontline, the war was almost over. Nevertheless, I got a lot of great leaders so far (about 7 or 8 of them so far).

How do I get to the Aztecs? That's what I want to know.

I'm wondering the same here. We can't get to the Aztecs unless we go to France or China. Of course, we can always cross the river with alot of boats, but that's way too costly. Since France is the only wealthy and most advance civ in my game and they are the only one that is willing to trade with me, I really hate to fight them. However, I have always wanted to see Paris, so I guess that will be where I'm going next.

PS: I do have a theory on why the AIs aren't in any hurry to search for Engineering. They refuse to take that path because they know something that we don't (the lack of certain resources, of course).

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by ControlFreak
I know that moonsinger (as usual) is not having cash-flow problems but I think many of us are.

Actually, I do have a little bit of cash-flow problem at the moment. I'm around 600 AD and I'm making only about 400 gpt with zero reseach (would explain why my tech pace is so slow). However, my cash flow problem will be solved if I get a great leader very soon here. Those silly leaders! When I need them badly, they never come; when I don't need them, they show up. Since my FP is right next to my Palace, most of my gold currently goes to corruption. With a leader, I could move my palace to a better place which immediately solve my cash-flow problem.

//edit: I just check my 600AD save game, I was wrong about the 400 gpt. With no trade with other civs and with both science and luxury set at 0%, my civ made exactly 362 gpt. That is 38 gpt less than I previously thought.

 

[ControlFreak]

Obviously "problem" is all relative. I think many of us would kill for 400gpt. Of course my game is still in BC time but I'm not sure I'm getting to 400gpt in 600years. My GDP is +20gpt right now at 0 sci, 0 lux. That's in my Golden Age.

EDIT: At least now I have something to shoot for. I'll let you know if I get there.

 

[Hurricane]

How smart is this?

I have finsihed my game and restarted to try to refine my tactics. Anyway, look at what Carthage has done with its workers. Seems he has a fetish for horses.

 

[alamo]

Originally posted by TC3
I'm a newcomer to the GOTM forum, but I've been lurking and playing along with you guys for the past 4 games. I just wanted to thank Cracker and the rest of the staff for providing us with so much fun. The GOTM is the only reason I still play CivIII.

Welcome to the Forum! A worthy first post if you are holding your own in this GOTM.

I've been bobbing along myself. I promised to actually submit this time, though.

My start was decent, but it looks like I stretched to grab the resources more than most. I got the diamonds, dye, S iron in the land grab, and then tried to fill in the gaps. Trading was profitable for a good while. I tried for the GrLib, and missed out.


Filling gaps took too long, so my GS were late taking the field. I fought a short campaign against Ceasar, who neglected to build legioaires?! Afterward I told Alex to take a hike and he declared war, which was good because he settled the nearby horses. I took Athens and two other nearby cities, gaining more iron and wines. Alex was getting piled on, and is left w/1 city.

By this time I am falling behind, since GA discourages gov't switch and I missed a stop on the tech-trading train somewhere during the battles. I settle down to consolidate and try to catch up in tech and troops.

Domination or conquest look difficult now. I have a GL in the wings, {but I stupidly have not yet decided what to do with him in the Ancient or Middle ages.} . I am staying out of the current wars due to obsolete troops, so only Alex and Ceasar are furious.

substituted test for the UN comment since the UN cannot possible fit the definition of allowed discussion for this thread - cracker

 

[Xevious]

Originally posted by alamo


By this time I am falling behind, since GA discourages gov't switch and I missed a stop on the tech-trading train somewhere during the battles. I settle down to consolidate and try to catch up in tech and troops.

Actually, with Celts being religious I would most definately switch to a better gov during a GA since it's only 1 wasted turn, especially the closer you are to the start of the GA.

 

[ControlFreak]

On el_kalkylus MSN website
I prepared myself for a long anarchy period which is why I had a revolution 300 bc. To my joy (and shame) there was only a 1 turn revolution.

Originally posted by alamo
since GA discourages gov't switch

Seems like some people are ignoring their civilizations traits, or have forgotten/never learned that religous civs (LIKE US) can switch governments in 1 turn

Originally posted by Xevious
Actually, with Celts being religious I would most definately switch to a better gov during a GA since it's only 1 wasted turn, especially the closer you are to the start of the GA.

 

[WoundedKnight]

>@Cracker NO RIVERS! (and coastline citys)

>I've been meaning to start a discussion on that but haven't >goneback to my saves to write down what my income is.
>I know that moonsinger (as usual) is not having cash-flow >problems but I think many of us are. I think that the key to >combating this is to have a lot of workers focus on improving >the tiles nearest the captial, not just the bonus grasslands but >the regular ones to.

It was a great game for me for cash flow and fast tech advancement for me the whole time.

One of the keys was I realized early that, as the Celts are not a religious civ, I would need to crank out massive numbers of workers. By the end of the portion covered in this spoiler (210 AD), I had 78 of my own workers, plus quite a few captured from other civs. From there, I continued to increase the worker number significantly (but I can't say how high because that's beyond the scope of this thread). Therefore, my productivity and trade were hit record levels for me throughout the game.

 

[WoundedKnight]

>ooking at some of the minimaps posted here it is evident (at >least from this small sample) that war = slow tech pace. >Peaceful building = faster pace.

I don't agree, I managed to maintain 4-turn tech advances (no slower than 6 turn at the most) with large positive cash flow even while at war for much of the game.

I think that other things are much more important for your tech rate than whether you are at war or peace:

1. your government
2. your infrastructure, workers, roads
3. your FP location
4. productivity wonders & improvements -- for me, the Pyramids are (indirectly) the best productivity improvement of all. Remember that happiness wonders & improvements are not only happiness improvements, but also tech & production improvements. A happy citizen is a productive citizen (boy, if that doesn't sound like propaganda...)
5. Getting enough luxuries & improvements is important to allow you to keep your luxury expenditure at 0%.

'nuff said.

WoundedKnight

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by WoundedKnight
It was a great game for me for cash flow and fast tech advancement for me the whole time.

One of the keys was I realized early that, as the Celts are not a religious civ, I would need to crank out massive numbers of workers. By the end of the portion covered in this spoiler (210 AD), I had 78 of my own workers, plus quite a few captured from other civs.

I think you meant industrious since the Celts are religious.

I agree that I needed more workers (I'm working on that now). In the beginning it was difficult to squeeze them out with the lack of food bonuses. Now that I've got a few cows and wheat in my empire, the workers will start flowing.

At 90BC you can see the lack of developed tiles near my capital, my lack of workers (10+about 10slaves). Another cashflow problem is that I have more units than my cities can support. My wars will claim at least 2 more luxuries which will reduce the need to have MP in every town so the warriors will get upgraded and set off to earn their keep (or die).

I agree with WoundedKnight that many things affect tech rate but HotRod wasn't talking about his own tech rate. We were talking about the AIs. In that respect, wars do slow the overall tech rate, peace helps the AI research faster.

 

[Shillen]

@Hurricane - Funny pic. I captured 2 Carthaginian workers that wandered pretty far from the nearest Carthage city in 1990BC. I had thought they were coming to join me, but maybe they were trying to find some horses to play with. They were fairly close to the northern horses in your pic.

 

[alamo]

Originally posted by Xevious
Actually, with Celts being religious I would most definately switch to a better gov during a GA since it's only 1 wasted turn, especially the closer you are to the start of the GA.

For some reason I thought they were commercial or something non-religious. Anyway, I must admit that I didn't even have the tech for another gov when my GS attacked.

 

[Greg Loader]

Originally posted by hotrod0823
I am hoping for culture flips do to my superior culture but haven't had any yet. Clearly a passive aggressive approach.

I have not had, nor seen any culture flips, which really surprises me! My culture is more than twice anyone else's. I have surrounded some neighbors' cities completely with culture, and they're closer to my capital than their own. No Flips.

Cracker, is CF turned off in this game? (PTW, first upgrade)

Thanks,

Greg

 

[Singularity]

@CrontrolFreak

What graphic mod is that? I love those mountaints.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Greg Loader
I have not had, nor seen any culture flips, which really surprises me! My culture is more than twice anyone else's. I have surrounded some neighbors' cities completely with culture, and they're closer to my capital than their own. No Flips.

Yes, there is absolutely no culture flip of any kind in my game too. In fact, most of the Romans and Greeks have welcomed me as their liberator. Most of the time, I don't even have to put out the rebellion because there was none.

 

[Xevious]

Originally posted by Greg Loader


I have not had, nor seen any culture flips, which really surprises me! My culture is more than twice anyone else's. I have surrounded some neighbors' cities completely with culture, and they're closer to my capital than their own. No Flips.

I have to add another "ditto" here. My situation is exactly the same as above with no flips. It's tempting to think it could be PTW, but I'm pretty sure Moonsinger is playing vanilla civ so that would rule that out.

 

[Txurce]

My culture came strictly from temples. I had a Roman city flip to me early; then, once my empire covered over half the earth, I lost one Egyptian city.

 

[da_greatest]

I saw an Iroquois scout really early in the game and decided I needed to take someone out. I found Carthage with a warrior and captured a worker. I sent an archer over and captured Carthage and got two more slaves. I immediately decided to have Carthage build the Forbidden palace. At the end of this period (130 BC) it still had 28 turns to go.

Next, I went after Rome. I captured Rome and another town with some archers. The two Roman towns basically produced workers and settlers the rest of the game. At this point I decided to either milk the game, or if I don't have enough time, get domination.

I built the Pyramids in Entremont in 670 BC. After this I didn't build many military units except in my capital. I researched Mysticism then Polytheism then Monarchy. Each time I traded the tech to become equal with everyone else. I am going to wait till the FP is done then attack Iroquois with swords and horsemen. Then I plan on attacking France with swodsmen and hopefully knights. Then taking Greece with knights. I have 2500 gold that I am going to use for mass upgrades.

Here is a pic to show my development.

 

[WoundedKnight]

No culture flips either here for me in the game, either to or from my civ.

Had I known that from the start that there is (presumably in retrospect) no culture-flipping, I could have saved a hefty amount of cash that was utilized rush-building temples in conquered territory. I also might not have done so much "ethnic cleansing" starving down the populace of conquered cities because of the very real fear of revolt.

Now I'm gonna get investigated by a UN war crimes tribunal...but I play fairly, no ROP abuse, no breaking turn-based agreements, I always declared war before invading.