RufRydyr
QSC Map Maker
@Singularity- What years are the 2nd and 3rd minimaps from?
{That's funny. You were editing them as I was reading them. Never mind.}
{That's funny. You were editing them as I was reading them. Never mind.}
*Spoiler1* Gotm18-Celts - Full World Map
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
jack merchant
Internationalist
Just asking..
Suffice it to say I had some time on my hands to finish as early as I did, and encountered a superbly designed map for a highly enjoyable game. This is my first GOTM, and I very much look forward to participating in future GOTMs and QSCs
I only raced to get to the victory condition I wanted as quickly as seemed possible.
Singularity
Infinite Density
Yeah, realized that I needed a bit more info on them. My pathetic windows paint graphics
tells me that I gotta get my hands on Photo Shop Pro as soon as possible.
Txurce
Deity
Singularity:
Are you going to submit a QSC timeline? I look forward to seeing how to achieve almost twice as good a start as I did. The QSC is the weakest part of my game, and I'm not learning fast enough, despite having read Cracker's tutorial and Bamspeedy's deity game notes.
Are you going to submit a QSC timeline? I look forward to seeing how to achieve almost twice as good a start as I did. The QSC is the weakest part of my game, and I'm not learning fast enough, despite having read Cracker's tutorial and Bamspeedy's deity game notes.
hotrod0823
Deity
Here is a mini map up until the Middle ages. Had just grabbed Monotheism and begining research on Feudalism at 130 AD.
@ Moonsinger checked out my game in 650 AD and I am a few techs ahead of Engineering.
@ Moonsinger checked out my game in 650 AD and I am a few techs ahead of Engineering
.
WoundedKnight
Warlord
- Joined
- May 28, 2002
- Messages
- 253
>How to slow down the tech pace is an interesting topic. I do the >obvious: avoid researching a less-popular branch of the tree, >then trading for what I don't have. Instead, I buy the post-IW >techs, and trade them only to the laggards. Later in the game - >usually not before the Middle Ages - I try to drag the leading >researchers into a war, which usually slows down research. >Since I'm going for a domination win, my "anti-research" goal is >to keep the AI from fielding riflemen before I hit the magic >number of tiles. That means Greece shouldn't survive medieval >times.
>Do others have different tactics?
This was a really good tech game for me, but my usual strategy is to do very little research in the dark ages (just pottery, sometimes republic), but then take off with research in the middle ages (education ->democracy, economics, music theory for the wonders & govt, & then keeping a large tech lead throughout the game.
One of the best ways to slow the tech rate of your opponents is to deny them of luxuries. Capture major concentrations of luxuries on the map. That way your opponents will have to devote more resources towards keeping citizens happy, building happiness improvements, etc. The AIs trade luxury resources with each other vigorously in this game, and China and the Aztecs at one point both had 8 luxuries each in their cities (mainly through trade) and high tech rates. Until I started taking out the luxury clusters in my neighbors territory, so that these other civs could not acquire the luxuries by trade, and their tech rates dropped considerably.
Later in the game, consider getting an MPP with a couple civs. Once you hit the era of nationalism, it's pretty easy to keep the world constantly at war in any game, dragging down the tech rate of other civs. Get some MPPs, start a war, and then things snowball until everyone is at war with several other civs. If you do it right, you can orchestrate things so that the other civs will stay at war with somebody almost indefinitely. You can leverage this to your advantage because this will weaken your opponents and "soften up" their cities for your own conquest. It will slow their tech rate & productivity improvements. It will also slow them down because they are denied trading luxury resources with all the civs they are at war with, resulting in fewer happier citizens in their civilization & requiring them to spend more $$ on happiness.
>Do others have different tactics?
This was a really good tech game for me, but my usual strategy is to do very little research in the dark ages (just pottery, sometimes republic), but then take off with research in the middle ages (education ->democracy, economics, music theory for the wonders & govt, & then keeping a large tech lead throughout the game.
One of the best ways to slow the tech rate of your opponents is to deny them of luxuries. Capture major concentrations of luxuries on the map. That way your opponents will have to devote more resources towards keeping citizens happy, building happiness improvements, etc. The AIs trade luxury resources with each other vigorously in this game, and China and the Aztecs at one point both had 8 luxuries each in their cities (mainly through trade) and high tech rates. Until I started taking out the luxury clusters in my neighbors territory, so that these other civs could not acquire the luxuries by trade, and their tech rates dropped considerably.
Later in the game, consider getting an MPP with a couple civs. Once you hit the era of nationalism, it's pretty easy to keep the world constantly at war in any game, dragging down the tech rate of other civs. Get some MPPs, start a war, and then things snowball until everyone is at war with several other civs. If you do it right, you can orchestrate things so that the other civs will stay at war with somebody almost indefinitely. You can leverage this to your advantage because this will weaken your opponents and "soften up" their cities for your own conquest. It will slow their tech rate & productivity improvements. It will also slow them down because they are denied trading luxury resources with all the civs they are at war with, resulting in fewer happier citizens in their civilization & requiring them to spend more $$ on happiness.
Singularity
Infinite Density
I'll submit a QSC, but timelines aren't my strong side - and this one was even more amputated as april so far has been kinda busy for me. Wasn't even sure if I could find the time to start this GOTM even. I think I got the worker actions and citizen shuffling in though - something I think is paramount in a timeline. But you should perhaps look at older QSCs, by Bamspeedy for instance. He and others are still lightyears ahead of my gameskills. Adele, SirPleb and Yndy all have strong early games.
RufRydyr
QSC Map Maker
Originally posted by Singularity
Yeah, realized that I needed a bit more info on them. My pathetic windows paint graphics
Although this is OT let me just say that after Civ3PTW, PSP is my 2nd favorite piece of software. Let me know when you get it and I'll share some tips such as how to crop with x,y coordinates, layers, mask, sharpen, add border, etc. There are just so many little things in PSP that can make screenshots easier to do and better looking. Unfortunately, I haven't really made anything really nice yet to show you guys. I also know how to make animated gifs with animation shop and if I ever find the time will make a cool animated gif of a battle or mass nuking
or something.shura
Chieftain
Help
Please!
I played hard and even got 4 wonders include Great Library, but when it becomes useless i got so BIG lag in tech, what i really confused. I see, what my dear neighbours has cavalry. but with hard work trying recearch physics! My only hope is pray God for peace
Am I only one with this problem and how its solving?
Please!I played hard and even got 4 wonders include Great Library, but when it becomes useless i got so BIG lag in tech, what i really confused. I see, what my dear neighbours has cavalry. but with hard work trying recearch physics! My only hope is pray God for peace
Am I only one with this problem and how its solving?scubagtr
Scuba Gator
No Shura,
You are not the only one with that problem. I'm usually laggin in tech in most Monarch games and up. I'm lagging in this one, even though I went to war and tried to force them to give them up, but even as I crush city after city, they only offer some piddly ones or none at all, but they rather give up their smaller cities to me. Go figure. After warring and trying my best to trade for some techs I am still behind, but have moved up into the middle of the pack. The most advanced civ remaining for me are the Aztecs. What I will do is attempt a MPP with everyone I can and then start a war with them. THis should slow them down, hopefully. The main way I keep losing is one, another country builds the UN and votes me out, or 2 - I lag just enough behind in tech where I am trying to build xsome infantry and the other civs roll in with tanks.
You are not the only one with that problem. I'm usually laggin in tech in most Monarch games and up. I'm lagging in this one, even though I went to war and tried to force them to give them up, but even as I crush city after city, they only offer some piddly ones or none at all, but they rather give up their smaller cities to me. Go figure. After warring and trying my best to trade for some techs I am still behind, but have moved up into the middle of the pack. The most advanced civ remaining for me are the Aztecs. What I will do is attempt a MPP with everyone I can and then start a war with them. THis should slow them down, hopefully. The main way I keep losing is one, another country builds the UN and votes me out, or 2 - I lag just enough behind in tech where I am trying to build xsome infantry and the other civs roll in with tanks.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,074
Originally posted by Moonsinger
The tech pace is extremely slow in my game. It's currently taking the AI more than 20 turns to discover a new tech. I'm currently in 600 AD and they just discover the secret of Engineering.
I can't believe how different the tech pace is between games. I have to avoid saying to much to avoid the cracker snip, but wait to you see my next post and timing of the ages. This is despite the fact I haven't researched any tech at more then token effort.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
What do you think the single most significant, map related issue is with regards to the amount of cash that you have available to spend on technology research??
Compared to the three prior games, what is the difference here?
You can easily discuss this issue within the limits of this spoiler thread.
Compared to the three prior games, what is the difference here?
You can easily discuss this issue within the limits of this spoiler thread.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
- Messages
- 5,242
The tech pace in my game mirrors Moonsingers. AI got Engineering in 550ish AD. In every other respect my game is inferior obviously.
My ability to research is hampered slightly due to the lack of coastal cities with high commerce potential, but it is improved by the ability to expand quickly through warfare. If I wasn't so lazy I could have colonized the barb peninsula and had many coastal cities and researched faster. I think that those people who control a relatively small proportion of the map will have a tough time with techs.
Expansion to me was a choice of using the UU or horse/knight/cavalry. I leaned toward horsemen as the warrior upgrade cost fo the UU is prohibitive. In the end I had no choice as I didn't have the horse resource early enough. The upshot of this is that I now have a zillion useless UU's. Perhaps It's not too late to take a look at the barb peninsula.
530AD. A couple of turns b4 AI gets Engineering. I do not have Chivalry at this stage, and this map is my limit for this spoiler. Note how proportionately few cities are on the coast, or for that matter on rivers.
How do I get to the Aztecs? That's what I want to know.
My ability to research is hampered slightly due to the lack of coastal cities with high commerce potential, but it is improved by the ability to expand quickly through warfare. If I wasn't so lazy I could have colonized the barb peninsula and had many coastal cities and researched faster. I think that those people who control a relatively small proportion of the map will have a tough time with techs.
Expansion to me was a choice of using the UU or horse/knight/cavalry. I leaned toward horsemen as the warrior upgrade cost fo the UU is prohibitive. In the end I had no choice as I didn't have the horse resource early enough. The upshot of this is that I now have a zillion useless UU's. Perhaps It's not too late to take a look at the barb peninsula.
530AD. A couple of turns b4 AI gets Engineering. I do not have Chivalry at this stage, and this map is my limit for this spoiler. Note how proportionately few cities are on the coast, or for that matter on rivers.
How do I get to the Aztecs? That's what I want to know.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
@Cracker NO RIVERS! (and coastline citys)
I've been meaning to start a discussion on that but haven't gone back to my saves to write down what my income is.
I know that moonsinger (as usual) is not having cash-flow problems but I think many of us are. I think that the key to combating this is to have a lot of workers focus on improving the tiles nearest the captial, not just the bonus grasslands but the regular ones to. Then packing the cities close enough so that all the tiles are worked. This will at least get a road per citizen and boost income that way. I've been trying to micro manage to use the lakes on turns that I would have a sheild overrun.
That's another reason I haven't build my FP yet. Building it in an AI's territory that actually has rivers would help a lot. Look at the Aztecs!
I've been meaning to start a discussion on that but haven't gone back to my saves to write down what my income is.
I know that moonsinger (as usual) is not having cash-flow problems but I think many of us are. I think that the key to combating this is to have a lot of workers focus on improving the tiles nearest the captial, not just the bonus grasslands but the regular ones to. Then packing the cities close enough so that all the tiles are worked. This will at least get a road per citizen and boost income that way. I've been trying to micro manage to use the lakes on turns that I would have a sheild overrun.
That's another reason I haven't build my FP yet. Building it in an AI's territory that actually has rivers would help a lot. Look at the Aztecs!
Txurce
Deity
The aforementioned absence of rivers and cities with harbors hurt the cash flow, but it was helped by the relatively early global road network, which allowed for the trading of all the luxuries... once the Keltoi had acquired a few for themselves.
hotrod0823
Deity
I am in the same boat as Lee. I did finally use the barb farm to finance my some techs but that is beyond the scope of this thread. I am really missing those industrious workers. Roads and rivers are cash cows. Also the sparcity of luxuries requires me to pay gpt or tech trades to get luxuries without going to war. My cash outlay is allowing the AI to research tech at a quick pace and trade with each other.
There are not many 2 for 1 deals because the AI has been able to trade freely. I have been acting like a tech broker squeezing every coin out of the few AI that may not have gotten the techs yet. NOT making a profit by any stretch just decreasing the effects of the payout.
It seems that the all the AI have the tech on the same turns. I am getting tech 1 turn later with massive cash outlay. My goal is to pay for tech until I get enough Libraries and universities to research on my own and continue to sell to the AI. To have some help getting techs quickly in the Industrial and Modern age to go for a quick space launch.
[edit] We all were posting at the same time
. I am afraid I can't say what I was researching in 550 AD. Well beyond the scope lets say
There are not many 2 for 1 deals because the AI has been able to trade freely. I have been acting like a tech broker squeezing every coin out of the few AI that may not have gotten the techs yet. NOT making a profit by any stretch just decreasing the effects of the payout.
It seems that the all the AI have the tech on the same turns. I am getting tech 1 turn later with massive cash outlay. My goal is to pay for tech until I get enough Libraries and universities to research on my own and continue to sell to the AI. To have some help getting techs quickly in the Industrial and Modern age to go for a quick space launch.
[edit] We all were posting at the same time
. I am afraid I can't say what I was researching in 550 AD. Well beyond the scope lets say
Singularity
Infinite Density
Like ContfolFreak said no rivers, or immediate coastal cities. I touched on the subject on the terrain at start in this post i made in the pregame discussion . After having played to 10 AD i can sum up the challenges compared to earlier games in treasury/research:
No luxury/gold in the low corruption radius of ~10 tiles around startpoint.
No obvious spots for worker/settler factories close to startpoint.(slow infrastructure).
Huge price on massupgrade cost from warriors to Gallic Swordsmen(80G for each warrior), I emptied my entire treasury of 1000G and was still only having 2/3 of my warriors upgraded.
Ways of combating it was:
Time the GA until after you implemented monarchy/republic and had a resonable number of citizens on roaded tiles.
Strangle all but the most important research and trade maps 24/7 with the other civs.
Build an early FP closer to rivers/coast - NE for instance(I didn't do this btw).
This is what I like about the GOTMs, since every game brings a new and unique challenge to the gameplay.
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Amen to that. And the unique challenges are more precisely selected by the god of fate (Cracker) rather than his three sisters. In some respects the GOTM has become a TMG (Training Month Game) yet it still holds the challenge of competition for all of the better players who are "above" such training. Thanks Cracker and GOTM Staff (again).
