*Spoiler1* Gotm24-Korea - Enter Middle Ages

[Blind Guardian]

Open, PTW 1.21
Hello all, I came from www.civ3.com.br a civ portal in portugues.
I decide to try the medal series 6 on open class.

GOTM are ruining my live !

In my first game I tried to give priority the expansion and construction of libraries due the attributes of Korea.

After having knowledge of the Ironworking I noticed that could leave the olive clan without iron if i built a city in the river in the center of the continent. Without losing time I colonized the area and I obtained the domain of the resource. After that I planned an massive attack of "medieval infantries" and begin the conquest.

Blind Guardian, I want to welcome you to the GOTM games and acknowledge that you seem to be having fun and playing a good game. I have suppressed the discussion of "Medieval infantry" and Knights as well as other activities that would have occurred afte you exitied the Ancient age becuase we definitely want to keep the focus of this discussion on the game features that occured in the Ancient Age. Fell free to post that information in the next spoiler thread when it opens in a few days. - cracker

I alredy enter industrial ages, is a greath game

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Great map Cracker. I feel like I owe you something for that starting location.

I will hopefully be able to submit my game this time. 22 and 23 were finished late because of work demands. As soon as I look into the requirements, I want to submit the QSC also.

Playing Predator.

4000 BC – Founded Seoul on the spot; worker to cow; terra cotta in 15 turns

3800 BC – Warrior exploring south

3600 BC – Start Barracks for Granary prebuild; 2nd Warrior exploring east; Worker to S wool

3450 BC – Met Kyon Hwon of Baekje; 2nd warrior turns southeast

3300 BC – Researching Burial Rituals at max; switch to Granary

3200 BC – Worker heads to northern wool

3050 BC – Granary complete; start warrior

3000 BC – Met Wu-Ti of Han dynasty; Met Kwanggaeto of Gogury; traded Wu Alphabet for Masonry, 10g; traded Kwang Alphabet for Martial Arts, Burial Rit, 8g; Research Taoist Mysticism at full - necessary luxuries

2950 BC – 3rd Warrior goes north; Micromanaging Seoul-considering switching off Myst at full because when I moved citizen to road-less grassland, research time went up, Nah, I’ll leave it. Running deficit of -1

2900 BC –1st warrior exploring west between Han and coastline; 2nd warrior exploring NE on Gogury border

2850 BC – 4th Warrior complete, assigned to police force; start settler (due in 3, growth in 3)

2750 – spotted giant squid in water east of Munsan!

2710 BC – first settler produced, start warrior

2630 BC – warrior produced, start settler

2590 BC – founded P’yongyang 3 squares due south of Seoul

2510 BC – settler done, start another (this time done in 4 with growth every 2)

2390 BC – traded Kwang Myst for Iron Culture; 40 turns to Shamanism; oooh, neet: the place I was already sending settler is on iron

2350 BC – sending settler to far-off wine-hope he makes it; Founded Wonsan on Iron-going for Pyramids

2030 BC – founded Pusan 2 squares northwest of wine

1990 BC – traded Kyon Masonry, 11g for Wheel

1950 BC – traded Kyon Iron Culture for 40g; founded Puhang, my first coastal city

1910 BC – founded Yondok

1675 BC – founded Andong; built last settler in Seoul, switching to workers for a while

1650 BC – Kyon wanted 35 gold and I sent him packing (with great trepidation)

1575 BC – Discovered new Iron near Pusan

1550 BC – Founded Samchok; traded Wu 165g for Calligraphy

1525 BC – Founded Kangyang

1400 BC – Wu established embassy in my capitol

1325 BC – Switched Seoul to footman in anticipation of forest harvest

1300 BC – Wu has Map Making, but too expensive at Monopoly

1175 BC – Traded Wu Shamanism for Mapmaking, Map, 140g (left him with 1g); traded Kwang Shamanism for Math and 5g (all); traded Baekje map for map and 30g (all); traded Wu map for 1g

1025 BC – Spotted a volcano? on the little island (and lots of barbs)

950 BC – Sure wish I knew what the heck those volcanoes do

875 BC – Traded Baekje Shamanism for Bajatsu

825 BC – Takeda construct Oracle; Oda construct Colossus

650 BC – Refused to give Han tribute, he declared war; Established embassy with Kyon (Pyramids 12 turns) and Kwang (Pyramids 10 turns): mine will be done in 4; gave Kwang wool, 100g, map for alliance; upgrading 5 warriors to swordsmen; moving others to barracks for upgrade

590 BC – Finished Pyramids

490 BC – Put Seoul on Hanging Gardens hoping for GL prebuild

470 BC – Revolution

410 BC – Lost race for Great Lighthouse to my “buddies”, the Goguryeo

390 BC – Korean Monarchy Formed; switched to Literacy at full – luxuries

370 BC – Entered middle ages

 

[smackster]

1.21f

First game on Predator, decided to move up from open after four fairly easy wins in last two medal and GOTM games.

4000BC Moved worker onto mountain to see what is east, if there was a bonus might settle on hill, as there was not moved Settler NW and settled there. Research on max for Potter. Most important thing in this game is to get the settler factory moving so can't risk not meeting an opponent with Pottery in time.

3300BC Met Bekje????? should have read up on Korean history.
3150BC Met Gogourio
2750BC First Settler built, decided on an RCP 3 and 6 with the 6 turning out to be a lucky choice

Using 2 wool, cattle and wheat all irrigated made it an easy 4 turn settler factory with only one manipulation per cycle, which is more like my style don't know if I could have done the full settler/warrior factory, although it would have helped

QSC 1000BC 12 Cities, 2 Settler, 20 Warriors, 4 workers, 4 temples a Barracks and 476 Gold

Even at QSC you can see that a big warrior push is occuring. At this stage having seen enough of the map we knew that both Bekje and Gogourio must be assimilated into the Korean culture, the Han can be left alone.

Suprised by the other civs expansion, but not concerned and continued to expand on track. Bekje third city was next to the dyes a mere 5 squares away from Seoul, which broke my RCP 6 (only just rememberd this a little too late).

Once Iron Working was founded the only Iron was seen with a Gogourio colony on it, a settler moves down takes out the colony and we start to work a road down to it.

With Map Making the Island to the west is found and decide that area should be settled first, and would give an opportunity to train some Elite swords. Worked our way through the Volcanoes only to be dissapointed by finding three barb huts.

In 470BC we had waited long enough, launch against Bekje with 5 elite swords (plus many others) trained on the barbarian Island. As usual praying for a leader to get the FP (actually did start a long term FP build in a corrupt city - 100 turns). The Bekje were systematically reduced down to a single far off city

70BC Republic was formed decided to skip Monarchy in this game, I think that led to reaching Middle Ages at a later stage, but in this spoiler I can't be sure what affect that had in comparison to other games. Furthermore I could have bought my way into MA but decided to research the last few tech Currency.

In 50 AD Currency was researched and the Middle ages joined

The following map shows where the expansion got to, Bekje left with one city, and Gogourio sure to be the next victim.

 

[dales]

"I can't afford to gamble, so I have to go for pottery."

LKendter- I did gamble, and regretted it. The others were too close, and their borders were expanding too fast, so I got hemmed in pretty quickly. I got to choose when to have wars though.

Since I have finished, I decided to replay the start of the game, pretending I didn't know anything (including making some of the same mistakes placing cities because I didn't know where the resources would be). But instead of doing a 40 turn writing gambit, I did a max research for pottery followed by a 40 turn writing gambit. It worked.

I am convinced that in this game, not going pottery off the bat is a big mistake.

 

[Qitai]

Predator Civ3 V1.29

Summary
17 Cities
42 Pop
20 Worker
14 Warrior
1 Bushi
1 Junk
5 Granary
3 Barrack
Wool, Dye, Ivory, Iron connect
No horse
Wine essentially secured
339GC
All Ancient Tech except Construction, Currency, Literature and Republic
1 Turn to finish revolution
Contact with 8 Civ
Baekje has pyramid

Start/Factory
Settled on spot and setup the warrior/settler combo factory as planned. This can be done without the wheat. Here is how.

Turn 1 – Size 4 with 5 food (Starting at this size and food is a must to get the combo without wheat)
Use 2*wool, cattle and irrigated plain to get 8 shield and 5 food. On growth, you get another two shields to get 10 shields in total and complete the warrior.

Turn 2 – Size 5
Just use one more irrigated plain. 9 shield and 5 food

Turn 3 – Size 5 (with 5 food)
Same – Pop grows. Gains 9 + 2 shield and 5 food to get a total of 20 shields by this turn.

Turn 4 – Size 6
Use another irrigated plain. 10 shield, 5 food. You get the settler

Produced first settler by 2750BC (after completing 1 warrior, Granary, 1 worker and Barrack before that – See truncated QSC timeline attached for details). I skip all the road works for faster irrigation since pop will grows very fast with the bonus resources but do not have enough 2 food tiles to support them.

Bad luck when I realize I do not have horse since I settle 2 tiles SW of the northern horse location and Kunsan had their culture expansion just before I thought I can pop a colony to get around that. So, I guess I have to use Bushi for my first war later. I could disband town and rebuild to get my horse, but decided it is not necessary since veteran Bushi can handle the war. Glad that I actually build the barrack before the warrior/settler pump.

 

[LKendter]

Settled on spot and setup the warrior/settler combo factory as planned.

Well I am starting to understand how you win so early. I could not even think of that possiblity.

 

[Camien]

Open PtW 1.21

Yeah,
it is depressing and enlightning at the same time Just wanted to make my first post here, I usually read all the gotm threads every month and I'm always happy about all the new stuff I learn about our most favorite game.

Even though it usually makes me always feel as if I know close to nothing about it but actually eventhough I did close to everything wrong I finished it already and even achieved the Diplomatic Victory goal :-D (I hope stating the fact doesn't count as spoiler)

Special thx to Cracker for all the fun he provides with his great maps

 

[TheFounder]

I have a question. In my game i have a leader in 3000BC, when there was only 2 cities in my empire. I thought that there must be 4 cities for that. What it can be?

 

[Frankenchrist]

PTW

4000 BC: Seoul founded. Researching pottery at 100%. Building spearman.
3650: Spearman trained, building worker.
3550: worker trained. Building barracks.
3400: learned pottery, researching writing at %100. switched barracks to granary.
2950: granary built, start training settler.
2750: Built settler. Training warror. Made contact with the Baekje. Traded pottery and 3 gold for ceremonial burial.
2710: Made contact with the Goguryeo. Traded them the alphabet for martial arts and 10 gold.
2630: Pyongyang founded 3 tiles north of Seoul.
2310: Wonsan founded 2 tiles east + 1 tile SW of Seoul.
2150: Learned writing, researching map making at 100%. Traded writing to the Baek for the wheel and 13 gold. Traded the wheel and pottery to the Gogur for contact with the Han. Traded the alphabet, ceremonial burial and contact with the Baek for masonry and 18 gold. Traded masonry, writing, and 68 gold to the Gogur for iron working.
2110: Pusan founded 4 tiles SE of Seoul.
1990: Puhang founded 4 tiles NE of Seoul.
1830: Yondok founded 3 tiles S of Seoul.
1765: Androg founded 4 tiles SW of Seoul.
1550: Learned map making. Researching philosophy at 90%. Traded map making and world map to the gogur for mysticism, territory map and 40 gold.
1375: Learned philosophy. Traded map making and philosophy for code of laws and 25 gold. Researching Republic at 100%
1250: Traded code of laws to the gogur for horseback riding and 53 gold.

I learned Republic in 900 BC. didn't help me much because I was fighting pink and my unit cost along with the happiness slider at 30% didn't leave much room for science. I got my first wonder, the Great Lighthouse, in 450 BC. Luckily the green have the pyramids and they will be next after pink. Finally got out of the ancient age in 375 BC. Pink is down to one city in the south. Not too bad so far, but I was hoping to get out of the ancient a little sooner.

 

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by TheFounder
I have a question. In my game i have a leader in 3000BC, when there was only 2 cities in my empire. I thought that there must be 4 cities for that. What it can be?

You are thinking about armies. There is no particular city limit for leaders.

 

[Hurricane]

Expansion

I settled on the spot and set up a 4-turn settler factory (without the warrior). The other AI:s were also fast, and I only managed 13 cities by 1000 BC. By that date all land around me was taken.

Warfare

The Han sneak attacked me in 2270 bc and razed one of my unguarded cities. Nothing much happened after that, and we signed peace in 1700 bc.

It then took until 390 bc before I was ready for a war. I attacked Gogureyo (Olive) with 21 Bushi, and managed to get them down to 2 core cities and a couple of ones down south. Baekje (Pink) also sneak attacked me, so the war slowly degraded into a stalemate. I signed peace with both in 150 bc, getting all their money and some size 1 cities.

Technology

I started at Terra Cotta @ 100%, thn started on Calligraphy @ 40 turns, after that Shamanism @ 40 turns, then Monarchy at full speed. The gambits weren't particularly successful, but I kept at par with the AI's. I got Monarchy in 730 bc.

I tried to get the Pyramids, but Edo beat me to it. This was a big setback. I got the Hanging Gardens instead.

In 230 bc the barb Massive Uprising happened. Funny enough, Han dynasty settled on the barb island the very same turn, and their city was invaded by some 100 horsemen. Too bad they didn't have very much gold to start with.

I entered the Middle Ages in 150 bc.

 

[Qitai]

An additional comment. One new idea that I just had while playing this game is that maybe we can have two tries for revolt if we discover the tech ourself.

To do that, when you were ask for the new tech, go into F1 and hit revolt. Check the number of turns immediately. Exit the screen and you will immediately be asked if you want to revolt again. If you got a 8 turn anarchy previously, revolt again to get another RNG.

I don't know if the above works well since I got a 5 turn and wanted to try my luck. I still got 5 turn after the second try. So, I am not sure if it is just that I don't get a second RNG or I just happen to have the same RNG twice. Others may want to try this. This may help to reduce the random nature of revolution.

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Qitai

.... Check the number of turns immediately. Exit the screen and you will immediately be asked if you want to revolt again. If you got a 8 turn anarchy previously, revolt again to get another RNG. .....

How do you check to see how many turns of anarchy you'll have?

 

[Qitai]

Keep hitting the advisor for next advise. One of the those will be the number of turns for the revolt.

 

[dales]

Qitai- I'll check that out when I get back from church. I kept all the autosaves from my game, and I researched Republic myself and Democracy myself, so I can try it twice. I *think* I have tried this before and got the same result.

 

[Sylock]

PTW Conquest

My first official GotM. Played through it in 12 hours. Here's up to this weeks spoilers:

QSC thing:
Seoul Founded 3950 Granary in 3300, 4 turn settler factory in 3100
Pyongyoyg Founded 2800 Temple in 2350, Great Lighthouse will be done in 925 (not in time for QSC damn!)
Wonsan Founded 2510 Temple in 1575 Library in 1300
Pusan Founded 2390 Baracks sometime in the QSC
Puhang Founded 2150 Pre-build for Galley and then produces 4 Junks in QSC timetable
Yondok Founded 2070 Library in 1175
Andony Founded 1990 Barracks ? Library in 1425
Somchok Founded 1750 Library 1150
Kangyony Founded 1600 Temple in 1125 Library almost done (4 turns)
Qitaigyon Founded 1550
Snagawon 1425
Brempo Founded 1150 on Barb Island
3 Settlers bound for Barb Island one is in place and is founded 975 damn!
So that's:
12 Cities
3 Settlers
6 Workers
5 Libraries
Score of 486.
All AA techs except: Construction, Currency, Shamanisim, Monarchy, and I'm 9 turns from Republic.

Ok so onto the game itself.
I decide that I want the second wool for my second city so I can start building the Great Lighthouse right away and have a good tile in it's city. I can have a 4 turn settler factor in the NE tile and if there is a bonus grassland I can have a 4 turn warrior+settler. I move and find the nice little dye there. I don't see a BG so I settle for the 4T settler factory along. When I settle in 3950 I find _two_ BG in the city tiles so I'm very happy. I start a baracks there so that I can switch to Granary when I get Terra Cotta (Pottery) w/ 100% research. After getting TC I do some math and realize that if I use 3 chests instead of 1 on the granary that it only improves me by one turn. So I save 2 chests for later.

I send the one spearman to the east and one to the north.
I meet Baekjle in 3750 trade Bronze for Burial + 10g
I meet Goguryeo in 3500 trade Alphabet for Martial Arts + 10g
I meet Han Dynasty in 2950 trade Alphabet from Masonry + 10g
2900 Trade H.D. TC + BR for a worker
I then start getting excited and not writting down my trades I'll have to do better next time.

Research. Was always 100% because I was able to keep my settler factor at 4-6 instead of the 5-7 everyone was talking about in the pre-game. I went Terra Cotta (potter), Calligraphy (writting), Map-Making, Literature, Civil Service, and then started not writting stuff down again. My goal was to get galleys and the Great Lighthouse up ASAP.

Another reason I kept my 4T settler factory to 4-6 pop was because the warriors were un-upgradable so I ended up wasting the few I did make.

I start sending Swordsmen equivalent onto Barb Islandin 1250 and settle the first city there in 1150. There were tons of horses there even though no one was in the MA yet. In the course of clearing the island I end up with 9 elite swordsman guys. Most started from regulars. I took them back to the mainland to prepare for a war with Pinky (Baekje) but the MA hit me before I could declare war.

{Edit something that happened in 650 BC}

In 590 I enter the Middle Ages.

I'm off to read everyone elses adventures now. See you in the next spoiler!

 

[smackster]

Originally posted by Qitai
An additional comment. One new idea that I just had while playing this game is that maybe we can have two tries for revolt if we discover the tech ourself.

To do that, when you were ask for the new tech, go into F1 and hit revolt. Check the number of turns immediately. Exit the screen and you will immediately be asked if you want to revolt again. If you got a 8 turn anarchy previously, revolt again to get another RNG.

I don't know if the above works well since I got a 5 turn and wanted to try my luck. I still got 5 turn after the second try. So, I am not sure if it is just that I don't get a second RNG or I just happen to have the same RNG twice. Others may want to try this. This may help to reduce the random nature of revolution.

I can confirm it works, I tried this and got 5 turns on the F1 revolt and then 6 turns on the second revolt. Obviously I made it worse in my case but I think this proves you get a second random chance, so if the first is 8 turns then doing this can make it better. Exploit? Probably.

BTW thanks for explaining the Settler / Worker factory, I had to read it 30 times to understand but now I get it. Its the resources gained on a turn when the growth happens that is key.

Smackster

 

[SewerStarFish]

PTW Open 1.27
Kudos to Cracker: There's obviously alot of effort and dedication in creating all the culturally unique aspects to this GOTM. I hope Civ IV uses some of these ideas.

I decided to play this GOTM as I would a normal game. Heavy on research toward GL then Monarchy. Rapid expanision from one city (Seoul in this case,from the settlers starting point). I got the Iron and the Horse and now build wealth until education.

My only real irritation was my inability to land on the small island. That place was completely covered in barbarians by the time I got there. Then poof the Baekje have a town there. As consolation that town has been mercilessly assaulted by barbarians every turn since. Kinda glad they're there first.

Well, back to the game

 

[tao]

PREDATOR 1.29

In the pre-game discussion, I read quite a lot about planning optimum settler factories. I did not want to do this computation thing and "just played it". This of course resulted in sub-optimal usage of Seoul, as I discovered during the gameplay.

Seoul was founded on the spot and the wool, cattle, wool were irrigated and mined. I built 3 warriors, then granary.

Research was terra-cotta full speed, calligraphy (missed) and literacy (success) on minimum. I traded for burial, martial arts, wheel, masonry.

I got my first settler when seeing horses on the northern shore and thus the first city was 9 tiles from Seoul. I then did RCP distance 4 and 9. I missed the iron north of Seoul, which were claimed by a Baekje city. This made the Baekje my first target: building horsemen to capture Ch'onan the turn we declare war and about 15 warriors for upgrade to bushi once I had iron.

War was declared in 1025bc (late, but I waited until I was sure Ch'onan was not auto-razed and Seoul was a nice 1-turn warrior factory). After capturing the Oracle in Ch'ongyu, we make peace in 824bc getting mathematics, map making, bajutsu, 2 cities, all gold, wm. Baekje have capital and Mokp'o left.

In 1000bc, Wu-ti from the Han wants tm, 24g and we tell him to eat rice backwards. He declares war. In 800bc, Wu-ti gives 40g for peace without any fighting.

In 690bc we declare war on Gogury giving us Great leader Yi-Song-gye in 650. We decide to hurry Great Library in Seoul.

We started Lighthouse in Wonsan (working wheat north of Seoul) 1750bc and were very confident to get it. Regrettably, we had 5 turns left when the Tokugawa built it in 370bc. We also hoped for the Baekje to build us the Pyramids, but the Takedan did it in Edo. And the Tokugawa got the Hanging Gardens. All not on our land-mass.

In 370bc, we got all necessary techs from the Great Library to enter Middle Ages.

I was surprised how easy it was on Predator level. The AIs offered very little resistance to my bushi / horsemen attacks. I never saw a single goody hut, and raging barbs were no problem at all. The new units were a pleasure to see fighting, even thou there were some missing sounds. Congratulations to cracker and everybody who contributed to this game.

 

[lateralis]

well I havn't played in a while so I almost went with conquest because I was little scared but I ended up going open. AWSOME GAME!! let me just get that out of the way.

as for my progess I actually got some pretty good area in the land grab although some of my cities aren't placed as well as I'd like. I made the decision very early to go for a diplomatic victory and not to fight a single war (if possible). In the ancient age I went completely without horses but I did manage to get iron (to the southeast) and 3 luxuries: wool (from the starting position) dyes (from just noroth of the capital) and wines (screenshot).

this was my favorite coup because I just let Baekjle beat the snot out of Goguryeo and I just snuck in a took the spoils. Immediatley proceeding this turn, Braekjle had captured Changyon from Goguryeo, shrinking the cultural border enough for me found a city right on top of the wines on the hill. As I was pushing culture hard in the early game (with cheap libraries and realatively fast temples due to the commercial trait) I didn't have to worry about losing cities to culture flip and I even got one of Goguryeo's cites a few years later. Post land grab my nation looked like this:

although this screen shot is from a little later in the game, my land mass didn't change at all after the end of the great Goguryeo-Braekjle war which ended before the Great Library brought me currency.

Very exciting so far. I'm way beyond the ancient age but I'll leave that for next time! Great job GOTM staff!!

lateralis