Hergrom
Bushido Master
Not sure if this is true or not, but it seems that trading with someone who is polite gives you a better deal than trading with a furious civ. Anybody done any research into this?
*SPOILER2* Gotm16-Rome Industrial Age+Full Map
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
zagnut
Monarch
On this issue of strong units losing to weak units, it seems to me, without doing any scientific study, that the AI gives itself a boost when the human is ahead. By this I mean that my strong units have more of a chance of losing if I am ahead than if I am behind. This is just a feeling I have. Does anyone know whether this is true or is it just sour grapes on my part?
@ Hegrom: Yes. That is correct. Still, the influence is smaller or at most equal to the influence of the civ aggresivity/trade desire. For example you will probably find that Its better to trade with a furious Indian than a polite German.
@ zagnut: Sour grapes. There is not such a thing. It is only that it is in the human nature to notice bad things more often than good things.
@ zagnut: Sour grapes. There is not such a thing. It is only that it is in the human nature to notice bad things more often than good things.
Yes, I think it's just sour grapes on your part.
Since over 98% of my force in this game were cavalry units. I had virtually no defense; therefore, I often found myself at the mercy of the AI knight counterattack. In most case, it was 50% to 50% chance of lost or won. Even when I were losing too many units to their counterattack, the AI fast units would be wounded and they would be at my mercy during the next turn.My secret for my fast conquest was to draw everyone into the war and let them killing each other for awhile. Then I concentrated my force and hit one of them hard before they can rebuild or fortify their position. Since the world was in chao anyway, it was just a matter of time before I liberated them - one civ at a time.
Since I was razing everything in my path, I didn't have to worry about dealing with the rebels and the anti-war movement. Of course, I hope my citizens would remember me as a great conquerer and not a heartless tyrant.
zagnut
Monarch
Saddam Moonsinger:
Was Genghis Kahn loved or hated by his own people? I suspect he was thought of as a heartless conqueror or a great tyrant. In any event, I bow to your military skill in all of your games. Bush could use you in the planning on Iraq.
Yndy: I guess I knew it was sour grapes. Complaining is such fun.
Was Genghis Kahn loved or hated by his own people? I suspect he was thought of as a heartless conqueror or a great tyrant. In any event, I bow to your military skill in all of your games. Bush could use you in the planning on Iraq.
Yndy: I guess I knew it was sour grapes. Complaining is such fun.
Ouch! I don't think anyone would appreciate Civ3 tactics being used in the Real World!
I made it into the Industrial Era a couple days ago, but I wanted to review the Thread first before posting. There's a lot of good information here!
I'm playing a very peaceful Roman game. I've only had 4 conflicts: 3 with the Japanese (the last one lasted from 500 to 600 AD, using Knights and Legionaires and left Japan with 1 city way south in the Tundra), and 1 with Germany from 800BC to 500 BC. Other than that, nothing.
Like many others, the English built the Great Lighthouse, and made contact around 200 BC. I'm playing a very commercial game (typical build sequence is Temple, Forum, Library, if necessary Aquaduct and/or Harbor, Bank, University; I have very few Cathedrals or Coliseums; what type of a Roman am I?), so I've been maintaining a pretty big Treasury. Having 4 luxuries has allowed me to keep my Commerce in Taxes and Science. I bought all the contacts and a World Map at that time, total cost about 500 gold or so. Each additional contact cost less than the previous, and the Indians sold me a good World Map for about 220 gold, less than half what the English wanted.
Greece was the definite leader of the other continent. Babylon and India looked like they'd been taken down a notch or two; they had 4 cities each. The Aztecs and Iroqouis held 2nd and 3rd, Russians, French and English were in the middle. At 10 AD the only Tech I didn't have was Education, which Greece refused to Trade. I started a Revolution and became a Republic in 130 AD.
The Middle Ages went by quickly. I had my brief skirmish with Japan, and spent the rest of the time researching, building up my treasury and my cities. The only war on the other continent was the Aztecs attacking Greece around 700 AD. Big Mistake! Greece got everybody allied against Montezuma, and about 10 turns later there was no Aztecs left; Greece and the Iroqouis benefitted the most from the new territory.
Tech Trading was essential. Greece and France tended to leapfrog ahead. I would either finish the tech I was researching, or buy it (from France usually; Joan gives the best deals), and then I'd trade it around to the other civs to pick up other Techs I was missing. Very rarely did I get a good gpt or gold deal from anyone - they were so poor, and I'm definitely the wealthiest in this game!
I missed most of the early Wonders, but I did build Smith's Trading Company and Newton's University at the end of the Age. I had Theory of Gravity and needed Magnetism; Greece had Magnetism and needed Theory of Gravity. You'd think we could have done some sort of deal, but NO. So I started on Magnetism. Two turns later, Joan had finished Theory of Gravity, and those two traded, so France and Greece were in the Industrial Age, and Greece had a free Nationalism. I bought Magnetism from Joan and joined the club. I then sold, or gave, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism to nearly everybody, but do you think I could get a break on Nationalism? Not a chance, even though I practically gave Germany, Russia and Babylon the Techs to advance.
So, most everybody is in the Industrial Age. [Edit: oops, forgot to put the year - roughly 900AD] I will attempt to start pulling ahead now, but Greece will probably stay with me for a while. I've found the focus on revenue generation, while maintaining some good research capability, to be a good mix so far in this game. And trading has been a crucial element; in general I haven't gotten rich off the trading, but I've kept up by buying Techs, and then trading for others I didn't have. And the early wars with Japan have given me enough space to be comfortably ahead.
Oh yeah. I finally built a couple Caravels, and am gradually exploring the Barbarian island. I've seen the extra luxuries over there, so I'm going to have to settle it sometime soon.
I made it into the Industrial Era a couple days ago, but I wanted to review the Thread first before posting. There's a lot of good information here!
I'm playing a very peaceful Roman game. I've only had 4 conflicts: 3 with the Japanese (the last one lasted from 500 to 600 AD, using Knights and Legionaires and left Japan with 1 city way south in the Tundra), and 1 with Germany from 800BC to 500 BC. Other than that, nothing.
Like many others, the English built the Great Lighthouse, and made contact around 200 BC. I'm playing a very commercial game (typical build sequence is Temple, Forum, Library, if necessary Aquaduct and/or Harbor, Bank, University; I have very few Cathedrals or Coliseums; what type of a Roman am I?), so I've been maintaining a pretty big Treasury. Having 4 luxuries has allowed me to keep my Commerce in Taxes and Science. I bought all the contacts and a World Map at that time, total cost about 500 gold or so. Each additional contact cost less than the previous, and the Indians sold me a good World Map for about 220 gold, less than half what the English wanted.
Greece was the definite leader of the other continent. Babylon and India looked like they'd been taken down a notch or two; they had 4 cities each. The Aztecs and Iroqouis held 2nd and 3rd, Russians, French and English were in the middle. At 10 AD the only Tech I didn't have was Education, which Greece refused to Trade. I started a Revolution and became a Republic in 130 AD.
The Middle Ages went by quickly. I had my brief skirmish with Japan, and spent the rest of the time researching, building up my treasury and my cities. The only war on the other continent was the Aztecs attacking Greece around 700 AD. Big Mistake! Greece got everybody allied against Montezuma, and about 10 turns later there was no Aztecs left; Greece and the Iroqouis benefitted the most from the new territory.
Tech Trading was essential. Greece and France tended to leapfrog ahead. I would either finish the tech I was researching, or buy it (from France usually; Joan gives the best deals), and then I'd trade it around to the other civs to pick up other Techs I was missing. Very rarely did I get a good gpt or gold deal from anyone - they were so poor, and I'm definitely the wealthiest in this game!
I missed most of the early Wonders, but I did build Smith's Trading Company and Newton's University at the end of the Age. I had Theory of Gravity and needed Magnetism; Greece had Magnetism and needed Theory of Gravity. You'd think we could have done some sort of deal, but NO. So I started on Magnetism. Two turns later, Joan had finished Theory of Gravity, and those two traded, so France and Greece were in the Industrial Age, and Greece had a free Nationalism. I bought Magnetism from Joan and joined the club. I then sold, or gave, Theory of Gravity and Magnetism to nearly everybody, but do you think I could get a break on Nationalism? Not a chance, even though I practically gave Germany, Russia and Babylon the Techs to advance.
So, most everybody is in the Industrial Age. [Edit: oops, forgot to put the year - roughly 900AD] I will attempt to start pulling ahead now, but Greece will probably stay with me for a while. I've found the focus on revenue generation, while maintaining some good research capability, to be a good mix so far in this game. And trading has been a crucial element; in general I haven't gotten rich off the trading, but I've kept up by buying Techs, and then trading for others I didn't have. And the early wars with Japan have given me enough space to be comfortably ahead.
Oh yeah. I finally built a couple Caravels, and am gradually exploring the Barbarian island. I've seen the extra luxuries over there, so I'm going to have to settle it sometime soon.
kojimanard
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 238
Well, I made into the industrial age at 1365AD. Not going to win any metals, but this is the best I've done at Emperor. Partially, it was reading the game 15 QSC and also rereading Crackers openning moves article. I have had four GL's. First went to Sun Tzu's (IMO the best of the early wonders). Then I used one on the Chapel (I think a mistake; I should have saved it for Leonardos). One went for the FP and still have one left. I knocked off the Japanesse, except for Toyko. Had a war with Germans: I captured about five cities.
I dont know whether I'll finish, I doubt any Civ (including me) is going to get a win before 2050 and the late turns take so long. But its been a lot of fun.
I dont know whether I'll finish, I doubt any Civ (including me) is going to get a win before 2050 and the late turns take so long. But its been a lot of fun.
Not true!
I'm not even close to that. For one thing, my citizens' happiness is the most important thing on my agenda and I would never do anything without their approval.PS: Just in case you have been reading about my method of conducting war under Democracy in the article forum, I wrote that article a long time ago. I have learned much since that time. Nowadays, my citizen happiness is my #1 concern.
zagnut
Monarch
Moonsinger: I knew down deep that you were a true queen, with only her subjects happiness at heart.
hbdragon88
haunted by blackness
What about all the nuking you achieve to starve all your citizens just for better food, moonsinger? They die with a happy smile on their face but it's just bad - I never resort to that. I think that excessive nuking should increase unhappiness like pop rushing. "100% We cannot forget the cruel nuking you did to us"
Aggie
Deity
The middle ages were a relatively quiet period in the game. Since I only played my 2nd emperor game, I decided that it was best to focus on building and science.
At 300BC the English (yes here too) made contact to me and the other civs on my continent. Since I had TGL, I got about 5 techs, which pushed me in the middle ages. I was 4th in the histograph, with America leading.
In the early middle ages I switched to Republic and managed to build the Sistine Chapel. A couple of spearman/settler combo's crossing my territory were the perfect reason the declare war the the Americans, attack with my legionaires and get in the golden age. I got Germany and Japan to join the war and let them do all the fighting.Meanwhile I researched at high speed to get Military Tradition.
The commercial civs Greece, India and France proved to be as quick as me in research. Alexander constantly payed huge cash for my techs and was still able to get ahead!
After about 20+ turns I made peace with America, since the only reason to attack was to get a golden age. The next attack would be with Cavalry wth the backward Japanese as the target! But that's something for the Industrial Age thread...
I missed every wonder during this period. Greece and India split them up, with the exception of Leo, that was built by the Japanese near my boreder.
The 'barbarian' landmass proved to be difficult to settle, but around 700 AD, at the start of the industrial age, I got 4 towns there...
At that point, I was 1st in the histograph (America 2nd), 2nd in tech (after Greece and India) and quite rich (TGL and trading techs to other commercial civs...)
At 300BC the English (yes here too) made contact to me and the other civs on my continent. Since I had TGL, I got about 5 techs, which pushed me in the middle ages. I was 4th in the histograph, with America leading.
In the early middle ages I switched to Republic and managed to build the Sistine Chapel. A couple of spearman/settler combo's crossing my territory were the perfect reason the declare war the the Americans, attack with my legionaires and get in the golden age. I got Germany and Japan to join the war and let them do all the fighting.Meanwhile I researched at high speed to get Military Tradition.
The commercial civs Greece, India and France proved to be as quick as me in research. Alexander constantly payed huge cash for my techs and was still able to get ahead!
After about 20+ turns I made peace with America, since the only reason to attack was to get a golden age. The next attack would be with Cavalry wth the backward Japanese as the target! But that's something for the Industrial Age thread...
I missed every wonder during this period. Greece and India split them up, with the exception of Leo, that was built by the Japanese near my boreder.
The 'barbarian' landmass proved to be difficult to settle, but around 700 AD, at the start of the industrial age, I got 4 towns there...
At that point, I was 1st in the histograph (America 2nd), 2nd in tech (after Greece and India) and quite rich (TGL and trading techs to other commercial civs...)
Ronald
Emperor
In 50 AD, the Japanese are finally destroyed:
Rome is clearly seeking world dominance. The next enemy destroyed is America in 450 AD:
Now it is only Rome and Germany on this continent (the backwards small settlements of the English and French are neglected at that time.
But an Iroquoise warrior started to explore my continent and sneakily captured my undefended city of Bremen.
This act of treachery is not forgotten: we enter a number of alliances against the Iroquoise and Greeks and stirr up a war on the other continent.
In 980 AD, with the home war almost won, we enter the industrial age:
The story for Roman worldomination will be continued
Rome is clearly seeking world dominance. The next enemy destroyed is America in 450 AD:
Now it is only Rome and Germany on this continent (the backwards small settlements of the English and French are neglected at that time.
But an Iroquoise warrior started to explore my continent and sneakily captured my undefended city of Bremen.
This act of treachery is not forgotten: we enter a number of alliances against the Iroquoise and Greeks and stirr up a war on the other continent.
In 980 AD, with the home war almost won, we enter the industrial age:
The story for Roman worldomination will be continued
But all that was long gone in the past, I was young and was just learning to play with fire. Those days were far behind me now.
Oh btw, since my granaries were always full, starvation was really just a myth because none of citizens really starved under my watch. The only time they actually starved to dead is when their cities reached the maximum limit. In that case, Firaxis is responsible for their deads because I had done all that I could for them. I'm sure the same thing has happened in your game too.
Justus II
General Staff
Well, it has been almost two weeks since I posted in the last thread, it took me longer than I thought to get going on this game again. At that time, I was feeling pretty good about the game, I had already won a short war with Japan, had beaten off several expeditionary columns of Germans, and had just gotten a great leader. Unfortunately, I also realized that everyone else was already in the middle ages, and had a couple of techs. Like many games, England landed on my continent with the Great Lighthouse, but they made contact and traded techs with everyone BUT me! I tried to buy my way into their club, but it was going to be expensive, the world map alone would cost 25gpt, Monotheism was 37 gpt, and contacts were not even available. All wonders so far had been completed on the other continent. Plus I was still at war with Germany.
This was the situation when Emperor Trajan rose to power after defeating a German invader. He knew that our current empire was approaching the limits of productivity, and decided that the best way to reduce corruption would be to construct a Forbidden Palace in Kyoto. Unfortunately, the Japanese still had their Palace there, so that would require a war. Also, Japan had Feudalism, and we didnt. The plan was to mass for a quick strike on Kyoto, while sending a galley with a couple legions to pillage his Iron supply in the southwest. I also bribed America to declare war on the Germans, which I thought would interrupt his steady stream of troops. It took 9 more turns to get enough massed legions in position, and finish fending off the Germans in my territory, then I struck. 10 turns later, by 350AD, Japan was reduced to one tundra city (Tokyo), and they had taught me the secrets of Monotheism and Engineering, as well as their World Map, I had researched Feudalism by this point. Trajan retired to his Forbidden Palace in Kyoto, and his successor, Hadrian, after much debate, started to teach Sun Tzus Art of War in Kyoto as well, in 340AD.
Rome had achieved their objectives, but was far from satisfied. First, I could see that most of my rivals were even further ahead in tech than I thought. This is when I also realized what a mistake I had made attacking when I did, I was 4 turns short of letting my earlier peace treaty expire, and also had two luxury deals with Japan. This trashed my rep, I have been unable to buy tech or luxuries for gpt deals ever since. In fact, it has been difficult even to get the others to pay me gold per turn, although on occasion for resources or multiple luxuries I have been able to do it. If only I had read Bamspeedys strategy article on attitudes two weeks ago!! Anyway, this was a period of building up my infrastructure and redirecting my focus on Germany.
Because of the alliance, I didnt want to make a separate peace with them, and I noticed that they were getting the better of America, having taken New York and Chicago. I eventually finished researching Chivalry, and in 400AD sent an expeditionary force of about a dozen legions and 8 catapults ahead into America to try and get some negotiating leverage on the Germans. Maximus stepped forward immediately, defeating one of the inexhaustible German Longbowmen, and volunteered to lead an Army of our new Knights through the heartland of America to root out the Germans. I retook the two American cities, half intending to give them back, but luckily our new emperor, named Germanicus, took charge after taking Chicago. Since I had heard many reports of the completion of a Sistine Chapel and the so-called cascading of the other capitals, Germanicus insisted now was the time to complete another Great Wonder. We did not have the knowledge to build one, but the Germans did, and he negotiated a peace treaty with them on the spot in exchange for Invention and Theology. He promptly established Leos Workshop in Chicago in 460AD He said building it there would help to spread our Roman culture and keep the American citizens loyal, besides we might not have enough time to go back to one of our other cities to build it. After buying templums and bibliotechs both there and in New York, we were there to stay.
The next century was one of peaceful development, building Forums in all my towns. I was so used to building Bibliotechs, but it was becoming painfully clear that Rome was a backward people and would never catch up on our own. Learning would take cold, hard cash, up front, and lots of it, so I assigned one citizen in corrupted New York to be a scientist, and poured everything into making money. I build forums in every town that had a pulse, and only build biblios if I needed the culture. I also took this time to start my expedition to the Great Barbarian Reef, my galleys had been scouting it out for a couple of centuries, but I couldnt spare the troops before now. I gathered 3 galleys, with 4 legions, a pike and a knight, and took them over to play King of the Mountain. The barbs and Impis were so friendly, about 30 of them rushed over to play. I dont think I moved for the first 30-50 years, as they quickly became elite. Any given unit would tend to hold off 5-6 attacks per turn, until they were so wounded they went to the bottom of the stack, and then they could heal next turn if they werent called upon. They gradually moved north toward the Bombyx, and were followed with a settler and Musketman, who founded Caesarea in 620AD. After rushing the Moeia, I now know what Fort Apache must have been like. They came after us in waves, but the fort held out. Eventually, I got some workers over also, who built a road and a colony to secure the luxuries. My legions and knights began to spread out, taking out camps and pacifying the region. 730AD was the founding of Tarentum, in the south near the Gemma. Roman writers also completed the Heroic Epic of Maximus campaign.
Meanwhile, I was pushing my research (i.e. purchases) toward Astronomy, these new outposts wouldnt do much good without sea trade. Rome was bringing in about 250-300 gold per turn, so I could buy a new tech every 4 turns or so, unless I needed the money for rushes. I tried to look for strategic trades, when two techs would be available, but not everyone had both. Then I could buy one, and trade it to someone else for the other, and get two techs for the price of one. Between 500AD and 640AD I purchased or traded for Gunpowder, Education, Music Theory, Banking, Astronomy, and Navigation. Unfortunately, after all that I was still behind L. I was able to trade a bunch of luxuries to Greece for 30gpt, and luxuries and Saltpeter to France for 35 gpt, which helped. Somehow during this time I also made the mistake of trading my only supply of Gemma to the Greeks before my new ones on the Barb Reef were hooked up, I had like 6 cities go into disorder and I couldnt figure out why for a couple of minutes. (Doh!).
All was going well in the world, except the Americans kept sending settlers into my territory, and massing troops to block the border. We had an ROP, so I could keep my two isolated cities supplied, but I could tell it wasnt going to last much longer. I rushed a Portus in Chicago, and prepared my knights for war. After I ordered their settlers out, they declared on me, and I struck fast. My priority was opening the routes to my two cities, which also happened to include Washington. I had already massed 9 catapults and 6 legions at New York, and my army and several regular knights were in Chicago. I also had a bunch of knights and muskets along the border. Atlanta fell the first turn, and Washington and Buffalo the second. Shortly thereafter, Claudius rose up to lead the empire. He directed our forces east to clear out the cities toward the coast, including Seattle and Boston, and the new capital of Philadelphia fell soon thereafter. He moved back to Washington, and ordered the rushed study of Economics. With all our efforts poured into research for the first time in centuries, we discovered it in 720AD, and Claudius built Smiths Trading Company in Washington, again to help spread Roman culture. He also negotiated a peace with Lincoln, learning of Chemistry and the Printing Press, leaving him with 4 marginal cities.
I thought this would finally bring us peace, but it quickly became obvious Bismark had other plans. We switched back to money-making mode, buying metallurgy, so we could upgrade to cannons, and then, just as Germany appeared to be moving into attack position, I bought Military Tradition from Ghandi (ironic). It also appeared that Germany had no saltpeter, and must be getting it from India, so I bribed him to declare war. Pretty soon this triggered a wave of declarations against Germany, but since they were separated I didnt expect much real help. I moved my cannons, army, and some cavalry against Berlin, and one of our remaining legions produced Anthony to lead the Empire. He was faced with a tough decision: Form an Army out of our new cavalry arriving at the front, establish a Military Academy to build more armies in the future, or develop a Wall Street of investment banks to make more money. Although a Cavalry army can be effective, it is not critical, and in order for a Military Academy to make sense, it would have to be back in Rome or another high-producing city. Wall Street, however, could be built anywhere, so he went back to Washington in 780AD to further establish our financial center.
By 860AD, Munich, Berlin, and Bremen had fallen. Meanwhile, once again I am left behind as the other civs jump into the industrial age. Of course this brings about a barbarian uprising, putting a temporary scare into Tarentum and Caesarea, as fresh waves of barb horsemen charge at them. I was able to buy my way into the industrial age by paying about 1400 gold for Theory of Gravity, and then trading for Magnetism. I switch Rome, who had been pre-building the Military Academy, to Newtons, I might have a chance at building one myself since the AI hadnt started on it yet. However, I cannot afford Nationalism, and Germany is not yet ready to give it up, I will have to take some more cities to make Bismark more agreeable to negotiations. Unfortunately my efforts to block the saltpeter are now in vain, as he has riflemen, it will make it more expensive, but if I move quick, I should be able to get one or two more cities before he can mass-produce them. I am researching Steam Power on minimum, still planning on using cash to get through this period. Other than nationalism, I am caught up in techs, no one has Steam Power or Medicine yet. I have about 1200 gold, and making 580/tn, so I should be able to buy my way along until I can squeeze Nationalism out of the Germans. I have a plan for taking the lead, but that will have to wait for the next thread. Meanwhile, we must wait to see who will emerge to lead the Roman Empire into this next glorious Industrial Age.
This was the situation when Emperor Trajan rose to power after defeating a German invader. He knew that our current empire was approaching the limits of productivity, and decided that the best way to reduce corruption would be to construct a Forbidden Palace in Kyoto. Unfortunately, the Japanese still had their Palace there, so that would require a war. Also, Japan had Feudalism, and we didnt. The plan was to mass for a quick strike on Kyoto, while sending a galley with a couple legions to pillage his Iron supply in the southwest. I also bribed America to declare war on the Germans, which I thought would interrupt his steady stream of troops. It took 9 more turns to get enough massed legions in position, and finish fending off the Germans in my territory, then I struck. 10 turns later, by 350AD, Japan was reduced to one tundra city (Tokyo), and they had taught me the secrets of Monotheism and Engineering, as well as their World Map, I had researched Feudalism by this point. Trajan retired to his Forbidden Palace in Kyoto, and his successor, Hadrian, after much debate, started to teach Sun Tzus Art of War in Kyoto as well, in 340AD.
Rome had achieved their objectives, but was far from satisfied. First, I could see that most of my rivals were even further ahead in tech than I thought. This is when I also realized what a mistake I had made attacking when I did, I was 4 turns short of letting my earlier peace treaty expire, and also had two luxury deals with Japan. This trashed my rep, I have been unable to buy tech or luxuries for gpt deals ever since. In fact, it has been difficult even to get the others to pay me gold per turn, although on occasion for resources or multiple luxuries I have been able to do it. If only I had read Bamspeedys strategy article on attitudes two weeks ago!! Anyway, this was a period of building up my infrastructure and redirecting my focus on Germany.
Because of the alliance, I didnt want to make a separate peace with them, and I noticed that they were getting the better of America, having taken New York and Chicago. I eventually finished researching Chivalry, and in 400AD sent an expeditionary force of about a dozen legions and 8 catapults ahead into America to try and get some negotiating leverage on the Germans. Maximus stepped forward immediately, defeating one of the inexhaustible German Longbowmen, and volunteered to lead an Army of our new Knights through the heartland of America to root out the Germans. I retook the two American cities, half intending to give them back, but luckily our new emperor, named Germanicus, took charge after taking Chicago. Since I had heard many reports of the completion of a Sistine Chapel and the so-called cascading of the other capitals, Germanicus insisted now was the time to complete another Great Wonder. We did not have the knowledge to build one, but the Germans did, and he negotiated a peace treaty with them on the spot in exchange for Invention and Theology. He promptly established Leos Workshop in Chicago in 460AD He said building it there would help to spread our Roman culture and keep the American citizens loyal, besides we might not have enough time to go back to one of our other cities to build it. After buying templums and bibliotechs both there and in New York, we were there to stay.
The next century was one of peaceful development, building Forums in all my towns. I was so used to building Bibliotechs, but it was becoming painfully clear that Rome was a backward people and would never catch up on our own. Learning would take cold, hard cash, up front, and lots of it, so I assigned one citizen in corrupted New York to be a scientist, and poured everything into making money. I build forums in every town that had a pulse, and only build biblios if I needed the culture. I also took this time to start my expedition to the Great Barbarian Reef, my galleys had been scouting it out for a couple of centuries, but I couldnt spare the troops before now. I gathered 3 galleys, with 4 legions, a pike and a knight, and took them over to play King of the Mountain. The barbs and Impis were so friendly, about 30 of them rushed over to play. I dont think I moved for the first 30-50 years, as they quickly became elite. Any given unit would tend to hold off 5-6 attacks per turn, until they were so wounded they went to the bottom of the stack, and then they could heal next turn if they werent called upon. They gradually moved north toward the Bombyx, and were followed with a settler and Musketman, who founded Caesarea in 620AD. After rushing the Moeia, I now know what Fort Apache must have been like. They came after us in waves, but the fort held out. Eventually, I got some workers over also, who built a road and a colony to secure the luxuries. My legions and knights began to spread out, taking out camps and pacifying the region. 730AD was the founding of Tarentum, in the south near the Gemma. Roman writers also completed the Heroic Epic of Maximus campaign.
Meanwhile, I was pushing my research (i.e. purchases) toward Astronomy, these new outposts wouldnt do much good without sea trade. Rome was bringing in about 250-300 gold per turn, so I could buy a new tech every 4 turns or so, unless I needed the money for rushes. I tried to look for strategic trades, when two techs would be available, but not everyone had both. Then I could buy one, and trade it to someone else for the other, and get two techs for the price of one. Between 500AD and 640AD I purchased or traded for Gunpowder, Education, Music Theory, Banking, Astronomy, and Navigation. Unfortunately, after all that I was still behind L. I was able to trade a bunch of luxuries to Greece for 30gpt, and luxuries and Saltpeter to France for 35 gpt, which helped. Somehow during this time I also made the mistake of trading my only supply of Gemma to the Greeks before my new ones on the Barb Reef were hooked up, I had like 6 cities go into disorder and I couldnt figure out why for a couple of minutes. (Doh!).
All was going well in the world, except the Americans kept sending settlers into my territory, and massing troops to block the border. We had an ROP, so I could keep my two isolated cities supplied, but I could tell it wasnt going to last much longer. I rushed a Portus in Chicago, and prepared my knights for war. After I ordered their settlers out, they declared on me, and I struck fast. My priority was opening the routes to my two cities, which also happened to include Washington. I had already massed 9 catapults and 6 legions at New York, and my army and several regular knights were in Chicago. I also had a bunch of knights and muskets along the border. Atlanta fell the first turn, and Washington and Buffalo the second. Shortly thereafter, Claudius rose up to lead the empire. He directed our forces east to clear out the cities toward the coast, including Seattle and Boston, and the new capital of Philadelphia fell soon thereafter. He moved back to Washington, and ordered the rushed study of Economics. With all our efforts poured into research for the first time in centuries, we discovered it in 720AD, and Claudius built Smiths Trading Company in Washington, again to help spread Roman culture. He also negotiated a peace with Lincoln, learning of Chemistry and the Printing Press, leaving him with 4 marginal cities.
I thought this would finally bring us peace, but it quickly became obvious Bismark had other plans. We switched back to money-making mode, buying metallurgy, so we could upgrade to cannons, and then, just as Germany appeared to be moving into attack position, I bought Military Tradition from Ghandi (ironic). It also appeared that Germany had no saltpeter, and must be getting it from India, so I bribed him to declare war. Pretty soon this triggered a wave of declarations against Germany, but since they were separated I didnt expect much real help. I moved my cannons, army, and some cavalry against Berlin, and one of our remaining legions produced Anthony to lead the Empire. He was faced with a tough decision: Form an Army out of our new cavalry arriving at the front, establish a Military Academy to build more armies in the future, or develop a Wall Street of investment banks to make more money. Although a Cavalry army can be effective, it is not critical, and in order for a Military Academy to make sense, it would have to be back in Rome or another high-producing city. Wall Street, however, could be built anywhere, so he went back to Washington in 780AD to further establish our financial center.
By 860AD, Munich, Berlin, and Bremen had fallen. Meanwhile, once again I am left behind as the other civs jump into the industrial age. Of course this brings about a barbarian uprising, putting a temporary scare into Tarentum and Caesarea, as fresh waves of barb horsemen charge at them. I was able to buy my way into the industrial age by paying about 1400 gold for Theory of Gravity, and then trading for Magnetism. I switch Rome, who had been pre-building the Military Academy, to Newtons, I might have a chance at building one myself since the AI hadnt started on it yet. However, I cannot afford Nationalism, and Germany is not yet ready to give it up, I will have to take some more cities to make Bismark more agreeable to negotiations. Unfortunately my efforts to block the saltpeter are now in vain, as he has riflemen, it will make it more expensive, but if I move quick, I should be able to get one or two more cities before he can mass-produce them. I am researching Steam Power on minimum, still planning on using cash to get through this period. Other than nationalism, I am caught up in techs, no one has Steam Power or Medicine yet. I have about 1200 gold, and making 580/tn, so I should be able to buy my way along until I can squeeze Nationalism out of the Germans. I have a plan for taking the lead, but that will have to wait for the next thread. Meanwhile, we must wait to see who will emerge to lead the Roman Empire into this next glorious Industrial Age.
Phillip_martin
Make it so.
Originally posted by Moonsinger
My secret for my fast conquest was to draw everyone into the war and let them killing each other for awhile. Then I concentrated my force and hit one of them hard before they can rebuild or fortify their position. Since the world was in chao anyway, it was just a matter of time before I liberated them - one civ at a time.
Since I was razing everything in my path, I didn't have to worry about dealing with the rebels and the anti-war movement. Of course, I hope my citizens would remember me as a great conquerer and not a heartless tyrant.
Uh Uh Moonsinger
You don't get out of it that easily Attachments
Man of Kent
Chieftain
30AD Japanese down to one city Satsuma that is finally taken in 110AD. Not surprisingly due to the Great Lighthouse the English appear from the West and a long round of horse trading takes place which gives me communication with all civs as well as having the territory map for the Aztecs and enough advances to move me into the Middle ages. Most others nations are three techs in front of me. Germany lead on points and Rome is in 5th place
Whilst scouting the SE tip of the island I had seen a small piece of land to the east and in 130AD I set sail with a legionnaire for the unknown land. On landing on this island 2 Impis immediately attacked before I could identify their names. The legionnaire attacks a number of other Impis that have appeared but in the end the attacks are too numerous and he has to retreat to the Galley in order to recover. The galley sets sail to scout the area and encounters Impis at every point. The intrepid legionnaire lands once again to claim the lands for the growing Roman empire but he is outnumbered and in the end succumbs to the overwhelming Impi masses.
In 250 AD the Roman Empire declares war on the Americans and take Baltimore in 290AD, which the Americans had built to the South and isolated from its main cities.
In 310AD I have the full map and find out the English have built two cities on the South West peninsular.
By 420AD the Americans are down to 8 cities and Im using Knights as well as legionnaires to push the Empire forward. Ive cut-off the American supply of horses so they cannot counterattack with knights unless they are trading with another civ. In 440AD I attack the English as well and clear them from the island.
Due to the continuous wars with other Civs I had not managed to move out of Despotism due to the 6 turn loss of production, how I wished for a religious civ. Looking back this did cost me in the long run and probably accounted for the number of flips that captured cities have made, I had captured New York it flipped in 470AD so I recaptured it only to see it flip again in 540AD.
In 610AD declare war against the Germans and take New Berlin, which is now situated, right in the middle of my territory. By 780AD the Americans are down to three small cities and well on they way out of the contest. The strange thing is that both the Americans and Germans keep sending settlers down through my territory so my worker numbers are increasing.
Aztecs land and found Tzintzuntzen at the southern most tip of the island, in the same place the English did, does this mean some resource will pop up there later?
Agree peace with England. 970AD the Americans only have one city left on one of the peninsulars to the west, Ive taken three German cities and moving north towards Berlin. Flipping continues to be a problem so Ive now decided to raze any cities taken and set up Roman ones from scratch unless there is a wonder in the captured city.
1150AD Enter Industrial Age.
Whilst scouting the SE tip of the island I had seen a small piece of land to the east and in 130AD I set sail with a legionnaire for the unknown land. On landing on this island 2 Impis immediately attacked before I could identify their names. The legionnaire attacks a number of other Impis that have appeared but in the end the attacks are too numerous and he has to retreat to the Galley in order to recover. The galley sets sail to scout the area and encounters Impis at every point. The intrepid legionnaire lands once again to claim the lands for the growing Roman empire but he is outnumbered and in the end succumbs to the overwhelming Impi masses.
In 250 AD the Roman Empire declares war on the Americans and take Baltimore in 290AD, which the Americans had built to the South and isolated from its main cities.
In 310AD I have the full map and find out the English have built two cities on the South West peninsular.
By 420AD the Americans are down to 8 cities and Im using Knights as well as legionnaires to push the Empire forward. Ive cut-off the American supply of horses so they cannot counterattack with knights unless they are trading with another civ. In 440AD I attack the English as well and clear them from the island.
Due to the continuous wars with other Civs I had not managed to move out of Despotism due to the 6 turn loss of production, how I wished for a religious civ. Looking back this did cost me in the long run and probably accounted for the number of flips that captured cities have made, I had captured New York it flipped in 470AD so I recaptured it only to see it flip again in 540AD.
In 610AD declare war against the Germans and take New Berlin, which is now situated, right in the middle of my territory. By 780AD the Americans are down to three small cities and well on they way out of the contest. The strange thing is that both the Americans and Germans keep sending settlers down through my territory so my worker numbers are increasing.
Aztecs land and found Tzintzuntzen at the southern most tip of the island, in the same place the English did, does this mean some resource will pop up there later?
Agree peace with England. 970AD the Americans only have one city left on one of the peninsulars to the west, Ive taken three German cities and moving north towards Berlin. Flipping continues to be a problem so Ive now decided to raze any cities taken and set up Roman ones from scratch unless there is a wonder in the captured city.
1150AD Enter Industrial Age.
Originally posted by Phillip_martin
Uh Uh Moonsinger
I love this thread!
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
Well I finally made it and read through the rest of the thread.
After a weak ancient age, I clawed my way through the middle age going from last in tech to about middle of the pack. Greece is the clear leader in tech followed closely by India and France. Russia is about even and the others are even because I keeps selling to them. I'm getting theory of evolution and hopefully will be be top dog in tech soon having emphasized universities over banks. I went from lowest in score to score leader, although I'm way behind Germany and Greece in culture.
The hows and whys:
Japan eliminated after getting a leader and a few peace settlements for contact with the other continent.
Germany attack ineffectually. I managed to take their horse/iron city on the american border and settle a new town on the wheat/river in the middle of their land. Then I settled for peace. So far they haven't broken the peace and amazingly my cities haven't flipped to them.
America (still at war with Germany) started losing quickly so I joined Germany and finished them off, claiming only two of the remaining american cities. Germany got the rest. But I did get my second leader who is being saved for hoovers or the UN.
My rep was trashed the turn after contact with the 2nd continent. I made a luxury for gpt deal with Babylon who promptly lost the ability to trade with me. I'm still not sure what happened. I think they lost their harbor city in a war or the Greek border expansion claimed their trade route. Either way, noone let me buy techs with GPT so it's been a real struggle to work the tech trading gambit to catch up. After realizing I couldn't buy techs, I built every research building possible and belined to theory of evolution. I'm not quite at 4turns/tech but I'm close. TOE should get me caught up to Greece in tech.
Germany still lives and is industrial. I'll beat them to replaceable parts and I'm thinking about going on the offensive then cavs/infantry/artillery vs rifles/cavs. Anything to prevent pantzers from overrunning my weak defenses.
The Iroquois had been the biggest/baddest on the other continent but everyone has now ganged up on them. If I had any troops to spare I'd be there to help and to gain some cities on the other land. But alas, I've no troops to spare. I need them to fend off Germany.
Originally, I wanted to go for Diplomatic victory, but after my rep trashing, I think building the UN will be used to prevent the AI from winning. Domination will be a real stretch from where I'm at unless Germany falls easily. Not likely. Space Ship seems like the way to go. I can't believe I'm talking about victories at all on Emperor. If I win it will be my second win .. EVER.
The barb island has been a tough nut to crack. My rifle and two muskets seem to have a beach head on the shoreline hill near the northern coal. I'm going to send a settler there once the number of attacks/turn slowdown. My lone calvalry on the island is trying to work toward the barb camps to reduce the number of horsemen produced per turn. I hope to settle some towns here for the coal. Looks like a lot of AI in my game need it. No AI has yet to build a town here.
Greece has a few cities on the south western pennisula and may be a way for me to pick on them if I decide to go for domination. Germany has one town there also. England and a few other civs also have towns on the northwestern pennisula. If space ship route, I doubt I'll attack either of these as I should have enough cities/production as it is. Just need to be able to defend against Germany if they're not to be eliminated.
After a weak ancient age, I clawed my way through the middle age going from last in tech to about middle of the pack. Greece is the clear leader in tech followed closely by India and France. Russia is about even and the others are even because I keeps selling to them. I'm getting theory of evolution and hopefully will be be top dog in tech soon having emphasized universities over banks. I went from lowest in score to score leader, although I'm way behind Germany and Greece in culture.
The hows and whys:
Japan eliminated after getting a leader and a few peace settlements for contact with the other continent.
Germany attack ineffectually. I managed to take their horse/iron city on the american border and settle a new town on the wheat/river in the middle of their land. Then I settled for peace. So far they haven't broken the peace and amazingly my cities haven't flipped to them.
America (still at war with Germany) started losing quickly so I joined Germany and finished them off, claiming only two of the remaining american cities. Germany got the rest. But I did get my second leader who is being saved for hoovers or the UN.
My rep was trashed the turn after contact with the 2nd continent. I made a luxury for gpt deal with Babylon who promptly lost the ability to trade with me. I'm still not sure what happened. I think they lost their harbor city in a war or the Greek border expansion claimed their trade route. Either way, noone let me buy techs with GPT so it's been a real struggle to work the tech trading gambit to catch up. After realizing I couldn't buy techs, I built every research building possible and belined to theory of evolution. I'm not quite at 4turns/tech but I'm close. TOE should get me caught up to Greece in tech.
Germany still lives and is industrial. I'll beat them to replaceable parts and I'm thinking about going on the offensive then cavs/infantry/artillery vs rifles/cavs. Anything to prevent pantzers from overrunning my weak defenses.
The Iroquois had been the biggest/baddest on the other continent but everyone has now ganged up on them. If I had any troops to spare I'd be there to help and to gain some cities on the other land. But alas, I've no troops to spare. I need them to fend off Germany.
Originally, I wanted to go for Diplomatic victory, but after my rep trashing, I think building the UN will be used to prevent the AI from winning. Domination will be a real stretch from where I'm at unless Germany falls easily. Not likely. Space Ship seems like the way to go. I can't believe I'm talking about victories at all on Emperor. If I win it will be my second win .. EVER.
The barb island has been a tough nut to crack. My rifle and two muskets seem to have a beach head on the shoreline hill near the northern coal. I'm going to send a settler there once the number of attacks/turn slowdown. My lone calvalry on the island is trying to work toward the barb camps to reduce the number of horsemen produced per turn. I hope to settle some towns here for the coal. Looks like a lot of AI in my game need it. No AI has yet to build a town here.
Greece has a few cities on the south western pennisula and may be a way for me to pick on them if I decide to go for domination. Germany has one town there also. England and a few other civs also have towns on the northwestern pennisula. If space ship route, I doubt I'll attack either of these as I should have enough cities/production as it is. Just need to be able to defend against Germany if they're not to be eliminated.
Phillip_martin
Make it so.
Dont worry about be behind in the next spoiler as I havent got there yet either.
If you havent already done so check out this excellent War Academy article by Bamspeedy on attitude. http://civfanatics.com/civ3acad_ai_attitude.shtml Depending what you have done with the other civs you may still be in for a diplo. There are ways of improving your attitude before the vote.
I was also behind in tech due to my aggressive tendencies on my continent (Japan with Legions, America with Legions and Knights, and Germany with Cav) but left my run for TOE too late and was beaten by Athens on the turn I researched Scientific Method and had 3 turns left of a pre-build with Universal Suffrage (ie missed by ONE turn) !!!
More careful with Hoover Dam as I got to it well before Greece with an Army as a pre-build. Greece got Electronics and started Hoover when I had 5 turns remaining. Should get it in tonights session.
I spent a lot of time taking out a culturally superior Germany with an endless supply of Cav attacking their rifleman defended cities. Unlike some I did not raze one of their cities, although many German Nationals fled the ensuring famines (Note : They had the option to leave
) I had two Cav armies as my city busters and a large stack to suppress and prevent flipping. ![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
Like you I left the island alone for a looooong time. I am in the process of reinforcing 2 Legions and the only rifleman I ever build with one infantry unit and two settlers. I am going for the luxury.
Culture is out, Conquest and Domination I have left too late so with an impeccable rep (as always
) its a Diplo or Spaceship for me
ControlFreak
Not An Addict, Really
I'm having a tough time figuring out what's best to do from here.
The problem:
Moscow is 6 turns from Universal Sufferage (about time I established an embassy, right?) All AI are building Universal Sufferage. I have 23 turns to Hoovers. I have atomic thoery and electronics to the AI's Corporation. Greece offers >5500g for Atomic theory and France is offering 143gpt for it. I have a leader in waiting.
Options:
If I get UN soon, I'm the only eligible civ. Next is Germany. I'll get everyone in war against them and call for the vote? I'm asking because I've never been this far. First time in the Industrial Age!
Hope this isn't to off-spoiler.
@P_M I had already read the Bamspeedy article on AI Attitudes. While is was an awesome display of investigation and summarizing, I'm not sure how it helps. The government concepts were the only part about attitude that isn't inherently obvious. The other things to improve attitude are usually done already (although I've been saving the gift thing now until right before the election). And I'm not sure that the vote is purely based on attitude. (Bamspeedy indicated that he didn't research this at all.) I am more relying on someone's report from GOTM14 (Was it Cartouche Bee or someone else?) who said that an AI will never vote for someone they're at war with. If I can drag the majority into war against the next biggest civ (assuming no one else has 25% and is eligible) then everyone will have to vote for me.
The problem:
Moscow is 6 turns from Universal Sufferage (about time I established an embassy, right?) All AI are building Universal Sufferage. I have 23 turns to Hoovers. I have atomic thoery and electronics to the AI's Corporation. Greece offers >5500g for Atomic theory and France is offering 143gpt for it. I have a leader in waiting.
Options:
- Sell atomic theory for lots of cash, wait as long as I can for AI to get electronics, trying to build Hoovers first and watching out for the cascade.
- Sell atomic theory for lots of cash, Build UnivSuff with leader, kill the cascade, have prebuilds going for the UN and hoovers.
- Don't sell, let AI have UnivSuff and build Hoovers from scratch, UN with leader.
If I get UN soon, I'm the only eligible civ. Next is Germany. I'll get everyone in war against them and call for the vote? I'm asking because I've never been this far. First time in the Industrial Age!
Hope this isn't to off-spoiler.
@P_M I had already read the Bamspeedy article on AI Attitudes. While is was an awesome display of investigation and summarizing, I'm not sure how it helps. The government concepts were the only part about attitude that isn't inherently obvious. The other things to improve attitude are usually done already (although I've been saving the gift thing now until right before the election). And I'm not sure that the vote is purely based on attitude. (Bamspeedy indicated that he didn't research this at all.) I am more relying on someone's report from GOTM14 (Was it Cartouche Bee or someone else?) who said that an AI will never vote for someone they're at war with. If I can drag the majority into war against the next biggest civ (assuming no one else has 25% and is eligible) then everyone will have to vote for me.
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