*Spoiler2* - Gotm21-Melee - End of Medieval Age

[Kaiser_Berger]

1.21f Open Class

At the end of the Ancient Age, Greece was still enjoying it's Golden Age and military success in Germany. Although the advance of the combined sword/horse force was slowed by the flipping of Berlin and Konigberg(3 times!), the Greeks sallied forth.

In 280 AD, a great event occured. A victory at Stuttgart by an elite horseman brought into existence the great Pyrrhus. His leadership skills were put to use immediatly in the construction of the FP in Frankfurt. It was around this time that Greece's scientists greatly aided the military with the discovery of Chivalry. As knights rolled to the front, Germany fell quickly, some eastern cities being claimed by Russia, the military super power with whom we had allied.

Following the destruction of Germany, Greece's mighty knights looked south to the constantly tresspassing Minoans. The constant stream of Peltasts entering my territory could not be tolerated, and in 640 AD, my knights swept across the borders. Despite meeting suprisingly strong resistance from the Peltast Plague, King Volak was shipped off of the continent by the mid 700s AD.

As I was off war mongering, to my suprise my science didn't suffer one bit. With the sheer amount of luxuries, it made war weariness a non-issue. I was able to research techs at 4 turns a piece all through the age, still making a decent amount of gpt. My scientific power was only increased by the construction of Copernicus in 810 AD and Newton's in 1010 AD, both in Athens.

By the time 910 AD came around, I had researched military tradition, and my large force of knights was upgrades to cavalry. The Ottoman Empire was second in score to Greece, and a natural threat. With alliances with the Celts and Russia, my Cavalry set forth into the Ottoman heartland. At the tail end of the war, in 970 AD, the Greek nation was blessed with a new great leader, Hector. With future conquests on the horizon, he created a Cavalry army.

This army had no time to be used yet though, as the Ottomans died in 980 AD, as I entered the Industrial Age, the tech leader by at least 5-6 techs.

 

[deadloss]

I can't remember what happened and when it happened now - I must make more use of a pen and paper for GOTM#22. I must also stop just writing 'oh ****' and 'PANIC!?!' on my notepad, in future.

It all seems such a long time ago since I submitted my end game.

I can tell you though that I have never had the experience of building my cities so close together before. And that must be a failing of mine. I've always liked them having enough space apart to give them room to grow. I now realise that although it looks nicer, it ain't the right thing to do (in most circumstances).

I'm now replaying GOTM#21 with different tactics and a closer city layout - just to build my experience for GOTM#22 - and I have to say that I would have performed much better had I done so, the first time 'round.

Back to my original game, I do remember all quietened down in the second phase of the game after some bad experiences against the Germans, Celts, Ottomans and, to a lesser extent, the Hittites in the first phase, and every CIV seemed to concentrate on the TECH race. There was plenty of trading going on, and I think I probably did better than most (approx. 130gpt in total from all the CIVS), although the French seemed to be very sound financially (with 5000gp+ at times).

At the end of the Medieval Age, the strongest CIVs against me were the French and the Romans (unlike some have experienced, they survived and flourished in my game).

I also had three cities that were lost to the Celts, flip back. Two other cities that were mine, were eventually captured by the French, and stayed in their hands (upto the end of the Medieval Age).

You can see where this is going, can't you? The French were becoming worryingly strong and if I was to have a chance of winning the Space Race, I would have to perform better than them - although at this stage the Ottomans still had the strongest Firaxis score by a long way.


Question for DaveMcW: Wotcha Dave. What happened in your game? You seem to have got off to a bad start in the search for the 'perfect' spot to settle. Or is there some hidden tactics that you were following by only having the one city? You seem to have done OK considering but most would have built 30 cities or more by this stage.

I don't mean to question how you played it, it's more of a question of a trainee asking a master why do it the way you did? Is it OK to ask?

Also, is it OK to ask on this thread?

 

[DaveMcW]

Originally posted by deadloss
Question for DaveMcW: Wotcha Dave. What happened in your game? You seem to have got off to a bad start in the search for the 'perfect' spot to settle. Or is there some hidden tactics that you were following by only having the one city? You seem to have done OK considering but most would have built 30 cities or more by this stage.

I don't mean to question how you played it, it's more of a question of a trainee asking a master why do it the way you did?

I'm going for one of the "lowest scoring victory" awards this month. I definitely have the low score part down, we will see about the victory.

OCC (One City Challenge) is a popular way to make the game more difficult and interesting. With a perfect start it's one difficulty level higher than normal, but a bad start can make it much harder. OCC is also a great way to practice trading and diplomacy.

 

[Svar]

Open PTW 1.21f

My 1st spoiler post here

Again I didn't keep detailed notes and this is generated from reviewing my save games. I promise next Gotm to keep a timeline, I can really see the benefits of those.

I entered the MA sometime between 290 BC and 10 AD but am not real sure when or how. In 290 BC I was researching Monarchy. In 10 AD I was researching Feudalism and still didn't have Monarchy. The only thing I was laking in 290 BC that kept me from entering the MA was Construction and there is no way I could have researched it on my own and still be only 4 turns away from Feudalism in 10 AD. I figured out that I bought it from someone but can't figure out who. Whenever I got Construction I got Monotheism as my free tech. I wanted Engineering but beggers can't be choosers.

I stopped playing when I reached 10 AD and went to bed not sure what to do when I restarted the next day. When I got up the next moring I opened the save game at 10 AD to review the position so I could steal a llittle time at work to resolve the problem. What I figured was there was too much information with 15 AI opponents to track. I decided to make a crib sheet to track imformation so made an Excell spreadsheet with blank spaces to enter Civ name, score, government, techs they have that I don't, techs I have that they don't, their available gold, and finally a column for what they are willing to trade. I went home at lunch (7 minutes door to door) and recorded all the data for the 10 AD turn.

My dilemma was what to do about the fact that 4 Civs had both Monarchy and Republic but didn't need anything from me. I could buy them and immediatly revolt to form a new government but which one. Monarchy was cheaper than Republic but not as powerful. All the Civs with these two goverment types seem to be going for Republic. All the other Civs needed either Construction or Monotheism.

I went back to work to think about it some more and did what I usually do in these situations, nothing. When I got home that evening I started playing again and just kept improving my infrastructure. Four turns later I got Feudalism, traded for Republic, and revolted.

The main events that happened to me during the MA were two wars with those pesky Germans. I initiated both because I wanted their land for my FP. The first was initiated in 220 AD. My Medieval Infantry managed to destroy Salzburg (which the Minoans promptly resettled) and capture Nuremberg 11 tiles SE of Berlin on the coast near the three rocks as well as Konigsberg 10.5 tiles SE of Berlin in the desert next to the lake. The only bad then worst and finally good thing that happened during that war was the capture of my newly settled cotton port which the Germans slipped 2 swordsmen into. My allies the Minoans took care of one and I finally defeated the last one to recapture my cotton port. The recapture wasn't easy. I had a stack of 3 MI and 2 Hoplites for the the operation. The second bad thing was all three MI died against the German sword, I couldn't believe it. He was fortified inside a 1 population city on desert how tough could he be. Now I had to decide whether to try to take him out with the two Hoplites or watch my buddies the Minoans capture my source of cotton. The German sword only had 1 hitpoint left and he was already elite so I went for it and got lucky as the first Hoplite killed him and sent me into GA.

I sued for peace at the first opportunity because the lose of the 3 MI in the south stunted my drive in the north and all we were doing was trading units about 1 to 1.

I kept researching as fast as I could toward MT so I could upgrade to Cav and finish the Job.

The last war with Germany was initiated in 820 AD with 42 Cav and 35 Musket Men mostly inside Germany thanks to a ROP that I waited to expire and attack before he had a chance to through me out. The first thing I did was disconnect all his resources then capture about three cities. I was allied with half the world against Germany so the war was short and relatively casualty free. I got lucky and got my first GL 1 turn before the elimination of the Germans and established my FP in my new Athens 3 tiles NW of Berlin. The war was over 900 AD and all I had to do was settle all the land left open by the defeat of Germany.

By the end of the MA in 1000 AD in which I got Nationalism as my free tech I had 939 gold in the treasury, was reaserching Steam Engine at 90% and had income of +451 GPT. 707 GPT of my income was from other Civs. 236 GPT from resources and 471 GPT from the sale of techs. My biggest customers were France at 235 GPT and Persia at 202 GPT.

My palace is in Thermopylae 5.5 tiles S of Sparta which happens to be on top of the iron hill on the north coast. There are a total of 8 cities at 5.5 tiles from Thermopylae and 2 at 4 tiles that will later be removed. I should have built more cities at the 4 tile distance but wasn't thinking.

My Forbidden Palace is in Athens 3 tiles NW from Berlin. If the German cities aren't at 5.5 or 9.5 distance from Athens they will be removed when it is safe to do so. RCP rocks.

The Peltast unit was used offensively by the Minoans during the first war and they mostly succeded in making the German units elite forces so I didn't invite them to the last war.

My crib sheets make very interesting reading even if I didn't keep them for every turn. Anytime I didn't know what to do I would just stop and make a new crib sheet to study. Also as time went by I started to record more information on them. I wont bore you with all the details but it is very interesting to watch the ebb and flow of the scores that were recorded.

 

[Txurce]

Man, there are a lot of good games being played.

Darkness, I have a question about the duration of your Middle Ages: what took you so long to get through it? I ask because you're playing a great game, started the Middle Ages very early (the Predator factor?), researched at a four-turns-per-tech clip, yet closed out the era later than some other posters.

 

[DaLightHorseman]

greek civilisation a well olive oiled machine, have enjoyed wonderful relations with the kindly minoans until i made an untoward suggestion to king volak. ever a serene and gentle ruler, his lilac surrounds i always found quite relaxing.
and then i pissed him off. his jesus like demeanour changed to something more demonic, red sparks flying from his eyes. it was all a front, he never really liked saganaki. we shall cool the fire of king volak....
playing open 1.29
content to control our lands and the old germanic peoples who have responded well to our guesture of locating FP in the middle of a somewhat clumsy circle of sour krauts. (really,you would expect such a precise race to appreciate the difference between 4 and 4.5 spaces from the FP)

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by Txurce
Man, there are a lot of good games being played.

Darkness, I have a question about the duration of your Middle Ages: what took you so long to get through it? I ask because you're playing a great game, started the Middle Ages very early (the Predator factor?), researched at a four-turns-per-tech clip, yet closed out the era later than some other posters.

I deliberately slowed down my own tech pace at the end of the ancient age/beginning of middle age because I was at war with the Ottomans and I wanted to have them gone by the time I discovered Republic, so I could immediately swith to a republic and by-pass monarchy, so I would not be crippled by war weariness. So I did a 40-turn research gambit on republic (it worked , this netted me monarchy and feudalism too) and after that I switched governments and did 4-turn research the entire age, bee-lining for cavalry of course....

And I probably should have mentioned that I'm playing open. So it's definately not the predator factor...

 

[KELLO]

Originally posted by rabies


Kello, just wanted to say I enjoyed the writeup.....now just run the spellchecker...

Hi Rabies,

Yeah, I know.... There are some spelling errors in there. I spent about half an hour last night correcting the document, inserting correct dates and city names etc. Then when I was copying, pasting it all into the forum reply box I managed with clumsy fingers to loose all my corrections. I didn't really have the time or inclination to do it all again, so sorry, a below par doc got posted in the end... Glad you enjoyed it though...

Cheers

Owen

 

[a space oddity]

Hi all,

what good games indeed! Very interesting, just like this game itself. There are many ways to play this, I'm trying to get a 20k victory myself, in a mini contest with mad-bax. This is what Athens looked like in 980AD:

So it's well underway . I did have one war at that stage, but no leaders yet . I was making good money like most of you, even researching at full blast:

I knew at this point the world was far too peaceful, if no wars are fought they will launch far before Athens reaches the 20k mark. So this was the last of the peaceful era's. To be continued...

BTW: My free tech was Sanitation. @Darkness: You don't get to choose the free tech in 1.21, but which one it is varies more .

 

[burkina]

Ciao!
I thought it would be a disaster, but I'm going well. I'm not going to win, but it's my first time in Monarchy!
It's around 1000 AD and entered the new era. I'm somewhere in the middle of the scoring list, but growing and leading in the techs. This gives me a lot of gpt (Russia is very generous).
I managed to build three wonders: GL, CO and STC, which triggered the GA I'm still in.
Now I'm involved in NO and ST, but I'm not sure if I will shift one of them to a future wonder. The construction of the wonders and the GA is preventing me to move to democracy. I don't know if I'm right, though.
I'm well settled in 'Greece' and put three cities on the Ottomans peninsula (they give me Wine!), which are expanding well due to high culture.
Have three cities towards 'Germany' that also are expanding and I am trying to take advantage of the war between Minoans and Russia which allowed me to build a city in their region. Hope to expand there, too.
I'm performing a very peaceful game. I don't know if it will last, but now are all polite too me.
Ottomans and Russia are leading the game. Minoans are very weak now due to the long war against several civs. Persia and Spain are doing realy well.
Could you please suggest me a thread where I can understand exactly all the ways to win? I'm not an expert on cultural or Space Race wins.

Ciao, Stefano

 

[TriviAl]

Ptw 1.21 Open

The Civs:
Ottomans - 2nd placed, huge knight armies - 2-3 stacks of 10. Bully tech out of people as they have no money.
French - strong economy. Small landmass. Great library gave them a good boost and they are hanging on.
Russians - were strong. Down to half cities. Crushed by Ottoman/French/Greek alliance.
Celts - large army, weak economy.
Persians, Spain and Carthage - all fairly strong through trading.
Atlantis - early world leader, hasn't managed to build up.
Romans - killed by Atlantis
Germans - former world leader, killed by me.
Minoans - see Germans.
The others are weaker.

Things are going well - have stayed at least 1 tech ahead, beelined for Education and built universities, with these I conducted 4 turn research for the rest of the age. Finished medieval times ahead by Physics, Magnetism, Mettalurgy, ToG. Have chivalry and printing press that I traded for. Went industrial in around 700-800AD, which is slower than I would have liked.

Minoan Peltast was a lot of fun! They had several stacks of them, so I left attacking till I had knights. Even then it was really hard going - the hill cities were brutal and I had real problems getting through them. They kept counterattacking with waves of those little guys. Once on the flats, my manoueverability made things easier, but still not too straightforward. Volak is also a scary looking guy to boot. All in all a great addition to the game, even if they slowed me down for quite a while! Is it possible to play them in SP?

Forbidden Palace was hand built in Berlin - which was originally 50% corrupt with a courthouse. Did this to gain maximum productive cities, which I need.

This GOTM is proving to be a lot of fun. The resources, extra luxuries and new/retouched civs have added together to give me a game that feels quite different from the usual one. I pariticularly like the hot conditions with extra food. 3/3/2 hills are a lovely sight! Thanks to everyone involved.

Very curious to see what the rest of this game holds for me...

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by a space oddity
BTW: My free tech was Sanitation. @Darkness: You don't get to choose the free tech in 1.21, but which one it is varies more .

Ah, thanks space, I was wondering about that.
Not much variation in my game, I got what I always get: monotheism and nationalism....

 

[Sailorstick]

What a fortuitous Golden Age! I declared war on the Minoans because I wanted their cotton and I roped the Germans into the deal. After that, the Germans roped in 3 other civs for me I signed ROP with the Germans so they could get in easy to soften up the cities for me. The other civs didn't have a ROP but they abused my hospitality anyway. I was too polite (read: scared stiff) to ask them to leave. See image.
Whilst at war with the Minoans they hit one of my freshly taken cities with a knight, but the defending Hoplite was too good and then Bingo! Golden Age. I managed about 4 middle age wonders whilst in this fantastic golden age. Athens has a massive culture and I could probably go for 20k culture except I want the Space Race victory for medal play.
Well, the Germans took their capital and I got pretty much everything else but I was really eyeing off that capital as it had Sun Tzus in it. Needless to say, I more or less backstabbed the Germans and rolled him with superior units. (Also roped in the Russians for a small fortune)
That about sums up my Middle Ages except for the war that started with Atlantis but nothing happened for a long time until I hit the Industrial ages.

 

[mad-bax]

This was the most poorly played era in my game. I really had no idea what I was doing.

Because Athens was not exactly shield rich, it was my intention to build wonders with leaders. So I fought wars without any real intention of gaining territory. Before steam it can take an age to get a leader home, especially if you build as few workers as I did.

At the start of the middle ages Germany was dead, and the Minoans were reduced to a single town which I was raping every few turns with elite knights fishing for a leader. If this seems a bit exploitative then don't worry, it didn't work.

With the Germans gone, I had decided to turn left and fish against the Ottomans. Their land was nicer and their army weaker than the Russians. On the first turn of that war I got my first leader. I was 4 turns from completing Sun Tzus at the time, so I waited, and built Sistine. I like Sun Tzus, it helps a lot in war.

The Russians decide they don't like me at this point and declare. I was I little worried as my military was relatively weak. But they folded quite quickly, and the war was a lot of fun. I 'm not sure what my luck was like with the RNG and leaders, but I had 12 elite cavalry and didn't manage to generate a leader for quite some time. Unfortunately I got into a bit of a muddle and switched to Bachs and used the leader to rush it. I was pre-building Newtons with Copernicus at the time. I had enough shields to get Newtons, and I could have bought TOG from Spain. But I didn't. As a result - No Newtons and 6 culture points per turn down the drain. In the long run this was going to cause me no end of pain, but that's for the end game spoiler.

At 1270AD I reached the limit for this spoiler. Greece had just endured 4 turns of Anarchy and changed to a democracy. Normally republic would be preferred, but I was so short of workers I needed to speed up the few I had.

Anybody else notice just how much work there is for the workers to do on this map? If I was clever I would have realised this b4 I even started the game.

So in my 20K quest I have so far missed two important wonders that I should have got. Hanging Gardens and Newtons. Probably costing me around 15 turns. At this stage it looked as if I would finish around 1850AD.

Here are a couple of pictures of my prospective 20K town and my empire at 1270AD.

Good luck Space. You look to be doing a bit too well for my liking!

 

[a space oddity]

Ah, but then again, Mad, you've got The Oracle. This will prove to lead to victory in our little duel (*if* you manage to win this. )

 

[BretP]

I thought I was doing great until I read all of the summaries. I am barley keeping up tech wise now, though I was the leader throught most of the middle ages. I spent most of the middle ages finishing off the Minoans and fighting against the Germans. I cannot beleive how good so may of you are. I am expecting to win, but it will be close. Good luck to everyone during the final phase of the game.

 

[CruddyLeper]

Thanks BretP and the same to you. I was thought I was good at Civ until I started on GOTM - it's a great way to pick up new ideas and improve my game.

 

[Puzzlinon]

Actually, declaring war on a civ while in their territory does count as a broken ROP.

Is this always true, or only after there has been a "you must remove your forces" dialog where you've promised to move out? Do you get a rape rep if you move forces in and surprise attack in the same move?

 

[Puzzlinon]

Medieval age - 700-1110 AD. Conquest (my first GOTM.)

This is way way fun, btw. I'm having a blast. I never play
on maps this big or with this many civs, so it's plenty busy for me.

The medieval period was heavy going for proud Greece.
The Minoan war, it turns out,
disrupted our trading route with the Atlanteans.
So now our name is dirt in international trade circles.
We can't buy tech on credit.

So we have struggled to keep up in tech; the other
civs are very fast and we can only get tradeable advances
in time to sell the weak.

Before cutting the budget on research,
we managed to pioneer Physics, and that led to trades
that we parlayed into good deals on Navigation and Economics.

No wars in this period. We were roadbuilding to the north,
finishing a lot of city improvements, and assembling forces.

On the wonder front, we set Athens and Thermopylae to work,
Thermopylae on the lesser wonders (Shakespeare) and Athens on
the greater (Smiths, with a view to Newtons.)

We made a good effort, but not good enough.

Thermopylae succeeded; we choose naval prowess over theatre
at the last moment, making an investment for the future.
Disaster! TWO TURNS before Athens was to complete its
major great work, a cascade of in the world built all
the Cathedral (in Liepzig, which may prove useful later),
the University, and the Trading Company.
Dammit. So now Athens has a very expensive cathedral.

We are just holding our own culturally and financially.
Population is good (# 2 in the world.)
Manufacturing output is very poor. We MUST grow.

We have founded a new town within our borders;
young Ephesus, in a patch of unused forest and grassland
land southwest of Athens; it is law-abiding
and flourishing. We are grooming it for military production.

But that is not the only kind of growth we have in mind.

In 1060 AD, with nine cavalry divisions at the front,
we declare war on Germany.
Menudu-rich Munich falls immediately, Frankfurt a year later.
Civilians resist our republic; we declare a carnival
and halt food production to starve out the partisans.

The German counterattack is slow and weak;
in the subsequent seasons, small groups of knights and longbows
try to struggle through the pillaged valleys.
Cavalry and longbows from defended mountains
slaughter them. Germany lacks resources ;-).

1110 AD: Progress!
We finally gather enough cash to buy Magnetism from the French,
and trade it for Democracy with the Carthaginians.
Presto - we exit the medieval age.
Immediately upgrade all garrrisoned musketman to rifleman.
(God bless you, Leonardo.) The war continues:

 

[Bremp]

Civ3 v1.29 Predator

In 610BC I gifted Republic too all the other civs, but the Romans, because the only had 3 cities. I built the Great Lighthouse in Corinth, but it was a waste. I waited until 390BC to start a revolution (4 turns), cause in this turn I finished my first harbor and was able to trade for some luxuries. Btw, my trade route with the Atlanteans was broken 3 times before 10AD, grrrrrr. I also traded Monotheism during my anarchy for 170gpt. In 210BC, I sold Theology for ~130gpt. I was saving cash and in 50BC I rushed 15 universities. I also upgraded 35 warriors to swordman and half of these swordmans to persian mercenaries. In 50AD I got my first leader in the beggining of the war with the Germans. I needed to wait until 150AD to rush my FP. After this date I started to research all the techs in 4 turns. The AI researched to me Feudalism, Engeneering, Invention, Astronomy and Mettalurgy and I entered the Industrial Ages in 380AD. At this date I was producing 890 gold in science. None of the Middle age wonders were built yet.