*Spoiler2* Gotm22-Vikings - End of Medieval Age + Full World Map

Originally posted by Wanderer

I see your middle age was from 390bc to 1080 ad.
Mine was 410bc to 1230ad - thats 16 turns longer. Since I want to go for 20K, slow tech is good, gives me more chance to build wonders, and less worry for spacerace AI.

Other players ? How long / short were your Middle Ages ?

Mine was roughly from 350BC to somewhere between 1000 and 1100AD, I don't know the precise date (will have to look at it at home).

Since there were very few wars I think I failed in slowing the AI down in tech pace. But I'm still content. It isn't very quick and Industrial Age will be very important (still playing). I did manage to get some wonders and my calculations tell me I will hit 20K before 2050, so I have a chance. :cool:

Do other players have ideas on how to further slow down the tech pace?
 
Originally posted by MrWhite
Do other players have ideas on how to further slow down the tech pace?
Secure 8 luxuries. Try to deprive the AIs of luxuries. Sign trade embargoes. Once you are stronger, renegotiate peace and make them pay gpt. Or stay at war with them and knock them into communism.
 
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PTW 1.21, Spoiler 1

Will have to wait a few days for my in depth summary, as the saves are on a different PC I won't have access to till over the weekend.
Rough summary is I grabbed all but 2 wonders:
I didn't bother trying for Sun Tzu, and the greeks built it. The Celts also managed to build Newton's. Leonardo and Smiths were built in my capital since my culture city was at that time too busy making culture wonders (Sistine and Shakespeare/Magellan). I decided it was more important getting these at all, then to try to cram them into the culture city. I think I used 2 leaders for wonders, the rest being hand built by timely prebuilds.

Once I got my berserkers, I set sail for England with a rather small force of 8-10 berserks, and got the Greeks to join in the fun. First I plundered York, capturing the Great Lighthouse. Then I continued around the coast, capturing all their other coastal cities apart from the one the Greeks got. Only London remained, and it fell some time later when Knight reinforcements arrived. All in all they didn't but up much resistance, and I made peace for a city on the new continent with wines, leaving them with 3-4 widely scattered cities.

On my own continent, near the end of the ancient ages, France was the big nation, but they managed to get tangled up in a war with both the greek and the russians, and I finished them off when they were down to 2 cities on my territory. Later on, Russia and France were competing for most dangerous nation, with the celts a bit behind.

On the other continent, China became the largest power by far, America had only a few cities and Aztecs had a lot of land, but not much power and tech. China started slow, but actually pulled ahead of me in tech near the end, so badly I had to resort to risking a few steal techs. The had almost all of the northern territory, and was squeezing heavily on the americans, whom I gifted up a few techs to stand up against them.

As for how long it lasted, I will find out when I get the saves, but I was trying to slow down tech pace to get time for all the wonders, which I think worked to a certain degree.

In hindsight, I see a few points that I could have done much better on, notably the English Invasion and my FP. I had originally intended to use London for my FP site, but after partially conquering the area I abandoned this in favour for the russian/greek area, and as such my FP was delayed for far too long. The invasion itself was also rather feeble, but I held the area, but didn't really improve it so it was lost in a small squabble with the celts, before making peace with them again. York with its lighthouse was raized by me the turn it would be taken over, and a few turns before it was obsolete anyways. I should also have used one of the leaders for an army, to get Heroic Epic, but I figured it was better to rush the important wonders, planning to get more leaders later.

Edit: Drew a 8 turn anarchy for republic before kicking off the English war, triggering my GA.
 
Ragnar the Victorious studied the English Ambassador standing before him. The man was uneasy, and flinched a little every time Ragnar looked up at him from the Declaration of War he had just delivered, on Queen Elizabeth's direct order. Ragnar let no hint slip of what he was thinking; he preferred to let the man sweat a little. Not that he disliked him personally, but he was a bit of a pompous ass from time to time. To be fair, anyone who reached any kind of status under that cold fish, Elizabeth, was bound to become a little like her. Damn, Ragnar hated her attitude. Her nose in the air, as if she smelled something foul whenever they were in the same room together, her condescending tone towards his accomplishments. It wasn't too long ago that she had been a skinny nervous girl leading a grimy bunch of savages, just like him. Except he was never skinny. Or a girl. And, more importantly, his grimy bunch of savages had invented mead, which was far superior to that foul-smelling gin Elizabeth always reeked of.

Well, if Elizabeth wanted war, war she would get. Ragnar's military advisors had just informed him of a new advance in fighting technology. They were calling the new unit the Galloglass. (Ragnar suspected Grignr's hand in there somewhere.) These soldiers were just now being trained, and they were supposed to be highly deadly swordsmen, powerful enough to go up against the pitiful spears and pikes of Elizabeth's army. Although why each Galloglass needed to travel with a teenage boy, Ragnar did not want to know. At least it would get some of the gangs of kids off the streets . . .

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The war was going well, but slowly. The Galloglass units had proven themselves to be almost invincible against England's muskets. The biggest challenge had not been gaining control of the English cities, but keeping it. The citizens resisted fiercely, forcing Ragnar to keep his invasion force stationed in each new city for a long time to quell the resistance. Even after the resistance had ended, the citizens considered themselves Englishmen, and when his invasion force had left the city to advance on Westminster (at least these English knew how to name their cities!), they had risen up and overwhelmed his few Musketmen left behind as a police force. Ragnar had had to bring his invasion force back from the newly-captured Westminster to retake York. A waste of time and manpower, but necessary, as York was the closest city to narrow channel he was using to transport fresh troops from his capitol. He needed York as a beachhead.

Elizabeth did not seem to understand the power of Ragnar's army. He had taken two of her cities with little effort (one twice), and was advancing on the third. After that, he was setting his sights on London. Elizabeth didn't seem to care. She was willing to accept a peace treaty, but it wasn't important enough to her to give Ragnar anything in return. So be it; Ragnar's army was just warming up. It would be fun to see how Elizabeth talked after losing half her continent.

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Ragnar the Angry paced his personal quarters in disgust. He had one bottle of Ouzo left; the good stuff, not that cheap swill the taverns served. One bottle! And now that sneaky little poufter Alexander decides he wants to play war, too! Well, Ragnar mused, I guess I'll have to burn down that city on the tundra - again! It should give my National Guard units something to do to use up a weekend . . .

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:viking: The Middle Ages have been a very busy time. The story is lagging behind the game right now. :( I will probably have two more installments before I hit the Industrial Age.

All I can say for now is, the Middle Ages were not fun, but I survived. Ragnar's been hitting the gin pretty hard for the past couple of hundred years . . .
 
Ragnar the Bonehead sat in his office, nursing the last few drops of Ouzo in his glass. The last few drops of decent Ouzo anywhere in the country, too. Bert DeCampe, his trusty aide, stood on the other side of the desk, looking sympathetic. Except for a few Band-Aids and some redness around the eyes, Bert was in perfect form. No hangover, no broken bones or torn ligaments. Ragnar was under no illusion that Bert's drinking and partying days were over, but it seemed that, for a time, at least, Bert was managing to escape the more life-threatening consequences of his normal Friday nights. And Saturday nights. Not to mention Sunday through Wednesday. Thursday was reserved for his rugby league - after all, even the strongest Viking needs to rest once in a while.

"What was I thinking, Bert?" Ragnar moaned, staring morosely at the empty bottle in front of him. "Everything was going so well; Elizabeth was finally starting to weaken. One or two more towns gone, and she would have given me anything for a peace treaty!"

"I'm sure I don't know, sir." Bert replied, his voice soft with concern. "Perhaps the stress of fighting a war on two fronts temporarily clouded your judgement. It could have happened to anyone, sir."

"Thanks, Bert, but it happened to me." Ragnar sighed. "I mean, it's great that we now have London, and with it, the Oracle. And it's even better that our first five-star general, what was his name?"

"Haefner, sir"

"Right, Haefner. It's great that he was able to help lead the people of York to build that summer palace for me. Why do they insist on calling it the Forbidden Palace, anyway?"

"I believe it is supposed to be a private palace for the Royal Family, sir." Bert said. "Unlike this palace, with the weekly tours, and the gift shop. The Forbidden Palace is a place where you and your family can get away from all that. So it is forbidden for anyone else to enter the grounds."

"That makes sense. Thank you, Bert." Ragnar was grateful for his aide's encyclopedic knowledge of national affairs. "Anyway, why did I stop there? Why did I allow Elizabeth to talk me into a peace treaty with so little to offer. Sure, we know more about the stars than we did before, and we finally understand why gunpowder explodes so well, and that should lead to some really exciting innovations, but I know she was hiding more.

"If I had just held out a little longer, we could have had her willing to give us all of her scientists' research for peace." Ragnar downed the last of the Ouzo. "And those panty-waisted Greeks won't return my messages. It's not like they are even fighting us very hard. I hear they sent some of their knights to the fortress at the landbridge. Hell, your rugby team could have won that battle bare-handed."

"I'm sure you are correct, sir." Bert agreed. "Although I would be cautious. The Greeks may be biding their time, waiting for our guard to slip, or they may be building a larger army in secret. By the way, the general in command of the fortress you mentioned is on his way back to the capitol. He is due to retire soon. I recommend we send him to Stockholm to help with the . . . project there."

"What proj- . . . oh, that project." said Ragnar. "Right, good idea. Get a message to him tomorrow, and have him proceed directly to Stockholm. We can't waste any time with this one."

Ragnar reached behind him as Bert left the office, and grabbed a bottle of gin from the shelf behind him. Now that the war with England was over, he might as well get used to it . . .
 
Originally posted by Sir Bugsy
It sounds like you have a very effective leader farming technique. Have you considered writing an article for the war academy on it?
I thought there were articles about this, but on looking around I don't see any. So ok, I'm working on one now, it shouldn't take too long while I have it all fresh in my mind :)
 
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I'll see if I can link to my earlier post.

AncientAgeSpoilerLink

Entered Middle Ages around 900 BC. While I had the Great Library, I was concerned with the research pace, so I started a war with Greece, and brought Russia and France in on it. (The Celts and the English cost too much to get them involved.) This would give me some time to build up my infrastructure, etc. And there was practically no way that I'd see any warfare in my corner of the continent.

France had been weakened by Russia earlier, and declared peace fairly quickly, only losing a couple of cities. Russia, having attacked France earlier, allowed Greece to get a monopoly on Iron on that part of the continent. Greece got Feudalism as its free Tech, and soon had MedInf's running around bashing on Russia's Archers. Russia did not fair well, and eventually, 100's of years later, was reduced to 2 cities in my southern Tundra. I placed a spearman at the landbridge so that Greece could not pass without declaring war (or having lots of galleys). France snuck a Settler down south, and founded a city (3 actually) on the western end of the landbridge. So Greece has about 30 MedInfs 'trapped' between my Spearman and the French cities (they hold parades all the time :lol: ).

The Celts built the Great Lighthouse as a cascade from when I build the Great Library. They reached the islands to the NE soon after that, and quickly made contact with the other 3 civs. This is maybe editted: 390 BC , or so. China and America seemed on par with each other (and were at war); Aztecs were only 4 cities weak, and seemed severly cramped by America's expansion. They were roughly on par with us Technologically.

I'd finished my Library in Nidaros, and was working on Colosseum. With 1 turn to go, I checked around and saw that Brennus and Elizabeth had swapped Monarchy and Republic with each other. I quickly pulled my citizens out of the fields, to delay the build, and switched production to Hanging Gardens the next turn when I got those techs from the Great Lib. I was 100 shields ahead of everyone else, and easily completed the wonder in Nidaros, in 150 BC. I then switched to Republic (6 turns to 30 BC).

No one else wanted to help me out by researching Engineering. Elizabeth was on a tear, going through Mono, Theo and heading to Education. I gave in to the inevitable and started researching again. I traded for Engineering after Education was completed, and bee-lined to Invention. Elizabeth had already started Sistine Chapel; I finished a Cathedral in Nidaros, and started on Sistine, but I was relying on my Golden Age to finish it in time. I learned Invention, and sold it for whatever I could get to upgrade some of my 20 Archers to Berserkers. The following turn I started a war with France, and got my Golden Age started. The added production gave me just enough to beat out Elizabeth to the Sistine Chapel in editted: 450 AD ;she cascaded to Leo's and finished on the same turn! Meanwhile, I got an early Great Leader with my war against Joan; I used my newly increased gold income to finance a purchase of Astronomy from Elizabeth, and used the GL to quickly complete Copernicus's Observatory editted: 460 AD . Things were looking good :D

The war against Joan went fast; France's original holdings were no match for Berserks, and I left Joan holding 3 southern Tundra cities. After that, my gaze fell upon England. They were pushing the tech race too fast (IMO), and were becoming cultural giants. I wanted to crimp their style, and a Berserk amphib invasion seemed perfect. The English didn't have access to horses, so after taking 2 coastal cities (Warwick and York), I was able to handle their counter attack easily. I also brought the Celts in on the fun! I gained a Great Leader at this time, and after taking London (taking the Great Wall), I used it to build my Forbidden Palace in Warwick. This should make the formerly English cities very productive, and give good production to formerly French holdings as well. (Not to mention Greek and Celtic border areas, but I get ahead of myself ;) )

A stack of Knights went up the West coast, and my Berserks hopped from city to city going up the East coast; Once all English cities south of the Celts were gone, I granted peace (in exchange for Banking, PrintingPress and MusicTheory.) I'd also purchased Chemistry from Alexander, and traded it around for Economics, Democracy and Free Artistry, so I was Tech even (as of 850 AD.) The bad part of this was that I got no more Great Leaders during this time; the other AI's had started on Bach's and Shakespeare's (and SunTzu's was long gone to the Greeks), so I didn't get a shot at those two wonders. :(

MilTrad and Physics came out about the same time; I bought one and traded for the other. Same story for Magnetism and Theory of Gravity. Entered IA in 970 AD. Greece's free Tech is Medicine. I converted a Bank pre-build to Newton's, so I've got a pretty good shot at getting a third MidAge Wonder in Nidaros. I've disconnected Iron and Saltpeter and am building up my Horsemen supply to make a run at Greece. (He doesn't have Horses naturally, but he's getting them from America right now. I don't think he'll have many fast units.) Greece, Vikings, China, America and Celts are even in Tech, but only Greece rates as a stronger military. (Probably due to the 30ish MedInfs still parading down in the Tundra; they'll be no match for Cavalry!) America made another demand of me, which I declined; Abe declared War, and I brought China and Aztecs in on it, so they're having a fun time on the Eastern continents right now. France, Russia, England are just remnants.

I like the Berserker!! For the Mid-Middle Ages, this is a devastating attack capability against coastal towns. And there are no resource requirements, so you can always build them. (Just make sure you have enough archers for upgrade.) England and France were very vulnerable to this attack. (Funny how no cultural improvments stay behind, but lots of Marketplaces and Banks, which make governing the captured city a lot easier.)

[Edit: fixed some dates and added this F3 map collage showing the progressive World Order at different dates, up to entering the Industrial Age. Greece has done a superb job of dismantling the Russians! (not exactly what I wanted, but I'll work with it)]

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PTW 1.21f Open

Goooood map.
I have 20000 Culture, and 10-12 turn 100000 Culture, 10-15 turn military, 1-2 turn - domination.

Moderator Action: EsatP, you cannot possibly or reasonably say that a picture of a city containing the UN + the SETI project + The Internet building could have anything to do with the Middle Ages.

Step back and look at your game and describe for us how you played the middle ages.

Read the rules for participating in this spoiler thread and then you can get back on track. cracker

Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Ragnar the Gin-Soaked pushed the stack of reports from the western front off the edge of his desk, and put his head on his desk. War sucks, he thought to himself. After the easy victories he had had against the silly English knights, he had not been prepared for the advanced fighting abilities and technology of the Greek forces. They had a variety of musket with a long, slender barrel that was frighteningly accurate. They even had soldiers with these weapons on horseback, and they were virtually unstoppable. He had lost most of his Galloglass units in an ill-advised attempt to attack Corinth.

And to make matters worse, everyone but Ragnar had a Navy. Ragnar had a bunch of old fishing boats that could barely cross the Channel. The Greek Navy had huge, three-masted sailing ships with guns. The Viking Fishing Fleet had oarsmen! Ragnar threw the most recently-emptied bottle of gin into the fireplace, where it refused to shatter satisfyingly. Stupid English bottles. Can't even get respect from a stupid bottle. Ragnar was not in a good mood.

"Bert! Get in here!" Ragnar slurred deafeningly.

Bert DeCampe, Ragnar's long-suffering aide, rolled his wheelchair into the office, both legs encased in plaster, wearing a neck brace. Bert and some of his drinking buddies in the clerk's pool had recently discovered gin. The less said about that, the better.

"Bert, take some notes. This bloody war has gone on long enough. (By Loki, I'm even talking like the English now!) Now listen closely . . ."

Ragnar outlined his plans: sue for peace with the Greeks, as soon as the Greek envoy stopped ignoring him. I mean, really, how was Ragnar supposed to answer when she asked if that dress made her butt look big. Ragnar happened to like big butts, and he cannot lie! You other brothers can't deny! Ragnar looked in wonder at his tapping foot, wondering where that incessant beat was coming from.

Ragnar also outlined his economic plan. Now that the Trading Company had been set up in Stockholm, the Viking Kingdom had a much better budget to work with. He intended to increase his research spending in an attempt to catch up to the rest of the nations he had contact with. It was also time to pull his armies back off the English continent, and work to build a better, stronger army. Unfortunately, there was little money in the budget for retraining the older soldiers. Ragnar was still pissed off at the Leo fellow for betraying him for an Aztec chippy. Ragnar's only option was to put the older soldiers to work on civil projects, like the new banks that were going up everywhere, and train new soldiers from scratch.

Ragnar sighed. So much time, so little to do. No, wait. Strike that, reverse it.

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Ragnar the Uncharacteristically Perky whistled lightly as he walked back to his palace from a meeting with his scientists. His Scientist of the Month incentive program had paid off. Already, he had cities devoted to forming the new Cavalry unit, and other cities busy training men to operate the really big musket on wheels they called a Cannon. Quite an improvement over those old, creaky catapults, which never seemed to hit anything useful anyway. He also had finally gotten rid of those old fishing boats, and now had a swift fleet of Galleons carrying his soldiers back from York. Why Grignr had named the new ship after a Spanish coin, Ragnar couldn't figure out. Who are these Spanish, anyway?

Ragnar had a lot more time for walking and whistling now. After a few decades of unpleasantness, Ragnar had been successful in implementing some changes in his government. Now, instead of shouldering the burden of day-to-day management of every last detail of the Kingdom himself, he had representatives from each province, actually chosen by the residents of the province, to help him out. Of course, the final decisions in the big matters were still his, but a lot of the drudge work had been transferred to the Senate, leaving Ragnar free to . . . well, . . . take a walk, I suppose. What does an Emperor do with his free time? Well, no matter, it's a nice day out, might as well enjoy it while I can.

Ragnar gave a little skip when he thought of the new bottle of Ouzo waiting for him back in his office. Even though he had had to basically kiss Alexander's, um, cheek, to end the war with Greece, at least he had his beloved stash of Ouzo back. And sure, both London and Hastings had decided that they liked being ruled by that cold, dead stick of a woman, Elizabeth, better than being ruled by a fun-loving guy like Ragnar. No matter, London wouldn't know good Ouzo if you doused the city in it and lit it on fire. For now, the world was at peace, it looked like his Empire was about to enter a new era of civilization, and he had Ouzo. Most importantly, he had Ouzo.

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:viking: Well, that's it for the Middle Ages for me. Good thing it was a slow day at work! ;)

I'm only a bit of the way into the Industrial Age, but it promises to be a more exciting, and more rewarding age. <crosses fingers> As long as my luck holds out, that is. :cool:

More stories when Spoiler3: Return of the Son of the Spoiler Thread is posted . . .
 
My post on the Ancient Age can be found here.

Although planning on a military victory from the start, I held off going to war until I could do so without having to cross the mountainous land bridge. In the meantime, I filled in the Viking peninsula, settling the corrupt south more sparsely. Except for Nidaros' granary, only barracks and half a dozen harbors were built. Given the centrality of Nidaros, I decided to build the FP later in the game, across the water and NW. Originally my cities had been garrisoned by warriors; now I built archers for home duty, and upgraded the warriors to swords.

In 430 BC I declared war on France, solely because they had captured the Lighthouse at Kiev from the Russians. Viking swordsmen took Kiev on the next turn, and proceeded to carve up the French with more landings up the coast.

In 310 BC, a Viking galley took advantage of the Lighthouse to make contact with the eastern hemisphere. The three eastern civs were all behind me in tech - China was at war with America and the Aztecs - but I was able to pick up monarchy as well as a lot of gold for my maps. After picking up 548g from the Kelts for monarchy, I went into revolt: seven turns!

The discovery of the New World: 310 BC
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This wasn't the only bad news: my iron resource had dried up. In 210 BC I made peace with France, picking up two cities and leaving it only with Rheims as its capital. After transitioning into monarchy in 170 BC, I declared war on Russia in 110 BC. My swordsmen had been replenished and repositioned, and mostly encountered only spears and archers. In 70 BC I built a city atop the unconnected Russian iron, and upgraded my swords to MS as the Library gave me feudalism. These units then set about slowly taking the remaining Russian cities.

In the meantime, the home front had switched from building archers to horsemen. In 280 AD, just as the Greeks eliminated France, the Library gave me chivalry. My plan was to upgrade to knights and take out Greece, before going after England. The surprisingly slow AI research pace forced me to pursue engineering on my own, and I discovered it after 40 turns in 340. I then started researching invention at a research pace timed to coincide with the completion of a palace prebuild for Leo's.

In the meantime, I founded Drammen in 350 at the tip of the western American peninsula, and started work on a barracks. My home cities started building warriors again for garrison duty, because all 38 of my archers were sailing for Drammen as quickly as I could build galleys in my harbors. My goal was to have as many galloglasses (berserkers) as possible with ships to ferry them already in the eastern hemisphere as soon as I discovered invention.

In 360 I received my first leader finishing off the Russians and immediately declared war on Greece. Three turns later the FP was built in Thermopylae, which deprived the Greeks of iron. Just as I cleared the Greeks off the continent in 420, the Aztecs and Keltoi declared war on me. (The Keltoi were getting out of debt.) I promptly allied with China and America against the Aztecs, made peace with Greece, and allied with them against the Kelts.

I received Education in 450, ending the value of the Great Library. It had netted me only monotheism, fudalism and chivalry among the medieval techs I wanted. This, combined with the AI's traditional lack of gold early in the Middle Ages, kept me in a financial bind, balancing research for invention with a need to save gold for upgrades, while my luxury rate steadily decreased from 20 to 10%. (In the end, luxuries allowed me to keep it at zero, despite a total absence of happiness buildings or wonders.)

My knights captured southerly Mohacs and gained a leader - my first army - but bogged down against the Kelts. After cutting their iron resource in 520, I negotiated peace for 90g and 24gpt, as well as a RoP which allowed me to sit on their iron. I declared war on England and Greece two turns later. Striking from Kelt territory, I immediately cut off the English from their iron. England had its share of pikemen as well as Frankish axes, but my knight army led my mounted units to quick victories.

530 AD: 100 years before the invasion of the eastern hemisphere:
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In 590, I finally discovered invention, then traded it to the Kelts for 105g and 40gpt. The next turn I completed Leo's, which launched my GA. It took me four more turns to upgrade all 38 of my archers and sail them for a devastating strike against the predominantly coastal Aztec cities. (Soon after I aggressively researched astronomy, and upgraded many of my galleys to caravels.) I attacked several cities in 650, and had the Aztecs on the ropes so quickly that I was able to declare war on America in 730. (I had assigned several trailing ships to pick off the outlying Aztec cities, and didn't worry about how long this took.)

My knights reduced England to its eastern island by 700, and in 740 I declared war against the Kelts. With a GA, my cities were building lots and lots of gallooglasses. Some sailed east to the other hemisphere, but others sailed up the channel to pick off the Keltic island and their more distant continental cities. My strategy was to slowly grind them down with a minimum of galloglass support, while my main effort went into a swift conquest of the eastern hemisphere. England was eliminated in 780, just before the GA ended, but the mopping up against the Kelts - pikes and longbows - continued for centuries, due both to culture flips and the low number of units assigned to this theater.

In 790 I traded for gunpowder, and confirmed to my relief that China had none. One turn later the Aztecs were wiped out, and I allied with China to help me eliminate the in-country American cities, as most of my captured cities were undefended, and I feared a stray American knight retaking a city here and there. China knocked out America in 830.

With the Kelts on life support, all my focus now shifted to China. Their army consisted mainly of pikemen and riders. Mao only had three inland cities - Beijing and the two American conquests - so I moved as many ships as possible off their coastal cities, while my galloglasses arrived outside the former American cities. My goal was to cripple China enough that the retaking of empty cities would be held to a minimum. I declared war in 890, and immediately took half of China (including cutting their iron). Now it was a race to position two armies plus support outside Beijing, pick off the flood of Chinese settlers, and transfer units among my ships to strike the remaining cities as quickly as possible. I suffered a few reversals - mainly because I didn't raze when I should have - but China and the last Kelt city all fell in 950, giving me a conquest victory.

950 AD: conquest and a view of the military
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Most questionable about my strateg was choosing monarchy and letting the Great Library take me into the Middle Ages. The unusually slow AI tech pace kept me from reaching chivalry until 280 AD and invention until 590 AD. (The two hemispheres never made contact, and the Chinese never got past chemistry.) Corruption in a monarchy with no non-military improvements whatsoever kept my income low, so the timing of gold and research remained in concert, but could have come sooner with a more aggressive approach to research. The FP in 390 AD was a little late, but the reality was that there wasn't enough of a second (foreign) city core to make much of a difference. I could have built more settlers, but chose to focus strictly on units.

On the plus side, my decision to build (in order) warriors, archers, horsemen, and warriors again - until the GA made it possible to pump out the UU - worked out very well. The upgraded warriors took most of the continent, while I built horsemen which were in turn upgraded and took the Anglo-Kelt landmass. These rolling wars kept me active on at least two fronts at once, without ever finding myself too shorthanded. The kicker was shifting all of my archers to the eastern hemisphere before upgrading them, and having enough ships to wield them effectively. The AI's relative lack of cities, and their primarily coastal placement, made my decision to go all-out with the UU a successful one: the conquest of the eastern hemisphere in 300 years.

Edit: a couple of hours after finishing, I realized I could have conquered the easternn hemisphere even faster if I'd kept the upgraded UU's in the north where they were stationed - thereby attacking China first - and used reinforcements crossing the ocean further south to later hit the Aztecs, then finishing by hitting America from both sides. The Aztecs declaring war on me earlier distracted me from even considering this.
 
Txurce,

Let me be the first to say that you played an outstanding game. I am not sure where that will finish you in the overal final standings but without a doubt it looks like it was a fun game and technically it has supperior merit in many areas.

That randomly evil 7 turn anarchy going from depotism to monarchy was truly disruptive and represents one of my pet peeves. The anrachy transitions should be randomly generated at the time of map setup but should be controllable in teh game definition and scenario controls. It is not really reasonabel for one player to get 2 turns or anarchy while another gets 8 turns of anarchy on exactly the same map and under the same game conditions.

I just want you to bask in the glow for a minute a realize how far you have come in just the last 5 months of GOTM play. Without a doubt, you have stepped up your level of play by at least two or three levels and this is a clear demonstration of the process as well as the benefits of playing in a larger community of comparative games.

Congratulations!!!!!!!
ole.gif
 
Originally posted by cracker
That randomly evil 7 turn anarchy going from depotism to monarchy was truly disruptive and represents one of my pet peeves...

Without a doubt, you have stepped up your level of play by at least two or three levels and this is a clear demonstration of the process as well as the benefits of playing in a larger community of comparative games.

Thanks, Cracker. This game was indeed a lot of fun, both because the circumstances allowed me to try many different things, and because I was able to successfully plan ahead for those different phases. I probably ask as many questions as anyone here, and sometimes the answers of the top players actually sink in!

I hate the luck factor in games myself, but suspect that game marketers believe the overall public likes it. I can't see any other reason to establish a religious civ's anarchy at one turn, and everyone else's ranging from two to eight. Fixing it at four seems optimal to me.
 
Originally posted by Txurce
I hate the luck factor in games myself, but suspect that game marketers believe the overall public likes it. I can't see any other reason to establish a religious civ's anarchy at one turn, and everyone else's ranging from two to eight. Fixing it at four seems optimal to me.
Anarchy duration is just one aspect if "luck" (aka RNG).

Why not "fix" the loss of suicide galleys at "every second galley is not lost"? Why not "fix" the appearance of Great Leaders as "every 16th elite victory creates a Great Leader? And culture filps? What about the outcome of battles? I'm getting carried away, but I think you see the can of worms that would be opened.

In this game, I had 6 turns of anarchy, but also lost my first 5 galleys in treacherous waters. Having made contact with the first galley probably would have made a much bigger impact on my game than 4, 2, or even 1 turn of anarchy.
 
Not much goes on i have a war with Russia and capture a couple of cities and get one for peace,behind in tech as usual.Declare on Celts to use beserk to get ga.America is theg big guy on the other side.Aztecs are a memory.
 
I'm not enough of a techician to desire a complete elimination of the random elements of the game; likewise, I've played games where ALL outcomes, from glorious victory to total agonizing defeat can occur, and that is just too painful to even consider spending much time on a game like that! (What would be the point of making any plan?)

Civ3 is a pretty good compromise. The RNG provides enough randomness without eliminating the benefit and need to plan. Besides, it provides some anticipation/dread of the results, and the capability to brag about a good result, or grimace because of a bad one.

I have noticed that, for a RNG, this one is pretty streaky. I'd expect two evenly matched units to generally leave one dead (of course) and the other nearly so. Instead, it often seems that one dies quickly, and the other gets hardly any loss of HPs. Then, if it was your unit that died on the attack, your next unit similarly matched up, will quickly vanquish the survivor. Just my impression.
 
Originally posted by tao
Anarchy duration is just one aspect if "luck" (aka RNG).

Why not "fix" the loss of suicide galleys at "every second galley is not lost"? Why not "fix" the appearance of Great Leaders as "every 16th elite victory creates a Great Leader? And culture filps? What about the outcome of battles? I'm getting carried away, but I think you see the can of worms that would be opened.

I see a difference between the RNG affecting "odds" - whether it be a battle, a successful suicide run, or the creation of a leader - to a wildly varying length of anarchy.

If the odds were fixed in any of the examples that you mentioned, the game would be adversely affected, because the strategy would change drastically: build a certain number of units and you're guaranteed overseas contact or a Leader, etc. This would clearly be less fun.

I don't think many players would consider a stable anarchy period as being less fun, because it has no effect on strategy. There is no strategy to making a single change of government - the game essentially demands it. To greatly vary the penalty for doing so makes almost as little sense as having a significantly varying penalty when building a second city.
 
Originally posted by civ_steve

Civ3 is a pretty good compromise. The RNG provides enough randomness without eliminating the benefit and need to plan. Besides, it provides some anticipation/dread of the results, and the capability to brag about a good result, or grimace because of a bad one.

I have noticed that, for a RNG, this one is pretty streaky. I'd expect two evenly matched units to generally leave one dead (of course) and the other nearly so. Instead, it often seems that one dies quickly, and the other gets hardly any loss of HPs. Then, if it was your unit that died on the attack, your next unit similarly matched up, will quickly vanquish the survivor. Just my impression.

I don't have a problem with RNG my problem has always been with military technology, Civ III treats it linearly when in fact it is really exponential. A case in point is the tank versus modern armor. To me the tank is a WWII tank while modern armor is an M1A1 Abrams tank.

In the recent Iraq war the Russian T-72 tank was no match for the M1A1 because of the technological advantage of the M1A1. The T-72 would have had a similar advantage over a WWII tank. Yet it is not unusual in Civ III for a tank to attack modern armor and defeat it half the time. While it should be possible the probabality should be less than 100 to 1.

Of course that would totally unbalance the game but there should be some compromise between the linear and exponential nature of Civ III and reality.
 
[ptw] 1.21 (Euro) Open

Ancient Times (4000BC to 110BC)

Middle Ages (110BC to 1395AD)

My aims in this period were two fold. The main to improve the culture of Bjoergvin, my 20K culture hope, and the secondary to do some warring to gain score and slow the tech rate. The Great Library was a great help during this period, allowing me to stay with the tech pace without trading (which would increase the tech pace of the AIs) and while allowing me to save money for upgrades.

110BC-740AD : Expansion/War preparation
I still had a bit of expanding to do, filling in the space in my territory that I had failed to settle earlier due to a slow start. I then bided my time waiting for the AI's to research Invention so I could go on the war path with Berserks. I didn't time my Galley building too well though, and the cost of upgrading the Berserks was prohibitive prior to the building of Leonardo's Workshop, so I satisfied myself with some building/war preparation during this period. My initial core was pretty much complete in 530AD, and looked like this :
Dianthus_GOTM22_AD0530MiniMap.jpg


740AD-1295AD : Greek War
The Greeks demanded tribute and declared war for the 2nd time, so they were my 1st target. Progress was very slow. This was in part due to Greece being quite strong, the strongest of those on the West of our land mass, and partly due to my inexperience in attacking with slow moving units. My warring in previous games started fairly late on with Cavalry, and the Berserks lack of speed or retreat ability make the Berserk a poor substite. I kept taking too few Musketmen for defense, and splitting my forces too far to take cities in one turn.

1150AD I decided to do a little double-dealing to catch up with the techs. I traded Economics+177gpt to China for Democracy+Astronomy (I was due to complete Smith's Trading in 1180AD anyway), then used Democracy to get Navigation+Chemistry+Alliance vs Chinese+gpt from the Americans/English.

In 1295AD I took the final Greek city on the West of our land mass. I only managed to get one Great Leader during this period, mainly because I kept losing my Elite units. I used it to build a Palace on the West part of the continent to finally start my 2nd core.

1340AD-1345AD : French War
The French War was over very quick. I had traded for Military Tradition in 1300AD and upgraded my 15 Knights to Cavalry. The 4 French cities went pretty quickly, time for another target.

1355AD-1385AD : Russian War
The Russian War was almost as simple as the French war, but the Russians were a little larger (9 cities) and spread out. Their defense consisted mainly of Spearmen though, and my Cavalry ripped through them with very few losses.

The Chinese
I mad some mistakes with the Chinese towards then end of this spoiler period. I had been thinking I would like to attack them after sorting out the French/Russians, so was trying to stay at peace with them until I could sneak a bunch of Cavalry laden Galleons across. They landed next to the two undefended remote cities I had gained for peace with the Greeks, and I decided to give them to the Chinese rather than go to war before I was ready. They landed on my main land-mass soon after (1360AD) and started war anyway. I should really have given those two cities to another Civ (I.e. The Americans/English), then maybe the Chinese may have ended up going to war with them instead.

I've currently got 45 Cavalry waiting to go on to the next war. I was originally intending to go for the Chinese, but they've got a bunch of Frigates/Galleons on my North West coast, which would make it difficult to get across to them. My Galleons are currently safe(ish) to the North East of the start position, so I may change my mind and take out the English and the Celts (proud owners of The Pyramids) instead. Tune in next Spoiler to see!

Culture
My 20K culture city is looking pretty good. I've got the following buildings in it :
Dianthus_GOTM22_AD1395CultureBuildings.jpg


According to AlanH's spreadsheet (See here in the "Cultural 20K Calculator (uses excel)" thread) Bjoergvin will reach 20K in 1954 AD even if I don't build any more culture buildings. See the following graph :
Dianthus_GOTM22_CultureGraph.png


The tech pace seems to be reasonably low, with China/America/England being the only ones to watch out for with regards to the UN/Space. My new core is developing quickly, so I should be able to catch up and surpass their minor tech lead quite quickly, and taking out another Civ or 2 will help too!

Other AI activity
I reloaded my 50AD .SAV at which point the Russians had made contact with the Chinese, and gained the contact to get the map of the East continent. The following are minimaps for 50AD and 1395AD :
Dianthus_GOTM22_Spoiler2MiniMaps.jpg


At 50AD the Aztecs had alreay been pretty much wiped out, I guess by the Americans. Between 50AD and 1395AD the Americans have remained fairly static, but the Chinese have spread out to occupy the surrounding islands.

On the West side the main changes have been initiated by myself, with the French being eliminated and the Greeks/Russians being knocked back to a few remote and unproductive cities. The English gained the island to the North West of their starting position, and took some land off the Greeks (both on their starting island and on mine).
 
PTW 1.21f open

Since I met everyone before 1000 BC, this is the first (and last) spoiler for gotm 22:

I have never played with the Vikings before, so I was interested how the Beserk will do. I delayed my wars and built lots of archers untill 370AD when I learned invention and built Leonardos workshop. The upgrade costs even with leonardo (50g) are extremely expensive. In hindsight, I think it is not worth to wait, the normal warrior - swordsmen path would have been quicker.
Another thing I tried for the first time was to build courthouses in cities with about 50% corruption. This worked out very well and I will add courthouses to my priorities. I also spaced my citries further apart than usual and I was not happy with the result, I will reduce my city spacing back in future games.

England was the cultural powerhouse and also had a fast research pace, so they were the natural target number one.
The beserks did a very good job, their naval assault is cool. Nevertheless, overall I think this unit is too expensive for its abilities.

My first victory with a beserk gave my GA. During this I built lots of horsemen and later knights. England cities had a number of nice wonders (great library and great lighthouse being the most useful).

After England was down to 2 cities on the other hemisphaere and the celts were eliminated, I started a 2 front war:
My remaining beserks went south and my knights went across the landbridge North.

Finally in 860 AD I had the western continents for myself, upgraded my knights to cavalry and invaded the East. It was not much of afight at all and in 1120 AD I reached domination limit (conquest would have been about 5-7 turns later).

Ronald_gotm22.jpg


What I learned from this game: Beserks are effective but too expensive, courthouses are great

Ronald
 
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