*Spoiler2* Gotm22-Vikings - End of Medieval Age + Full World Map

[Txurce]

Originally posted by Darkness
@Txurce: ...Later when I had the lighthouse I found I needed all my units for my conquest of England, so I couldn't start the invasion of the eastern hemisphere. What second rate units did you have running around? ...I basically did all my conquests with 15 berserkers, whose number dwindled to one at the ned and a constantly refreshed load of cavalry numbering between 40 and 50...

I attacked the rest of our continent with swordsmen, and upgraded them later to medieval infantry. When knights became available, they were all directed to the war against the kelts and English. At this point, the infantry are 'second-rate" units, and their unreinforced numbers eventually cleaned up the continent.

Likewise, I probably built less than twenty knights (plus the remaining continental infantry veterans) to complete the conquest of the Kelts and English. These units became "second-rate" once I upgraded 40 archers to berserkers, and began hostilities on the other continent. (In my game the berserkers were significantly more effective than knights, as most of the cities I took were coastal, and I had plenty of ships for these units. By the end I had 70 berserkers, with a good half too far from the front lines.)

I followed the same pattern in Medal Play 5-4, where medieval infantry slowly cleaned up the home continent, while knights took the other one.

 

[JonathanValjean]

More highlights from my GOTM 22 Log

Our Middle Ages period lasted for quite some time, beginning in 50 BC with the discovery of Monotheism, and officially closing in 1315AD, when we were taught Magnetism and Theory of Gravity by the Chinese for a hefty fee. Why did our Medeival period last so long? Well, there are many reasons, some of which I will relay below.

The main reason our Middle Ages took so long was that we mainly focused on gold. Gold is so good! With that gold, we were able to: mass upgrade archers to berserkirs and later, horsemen to knights to cavalry, buy techs at about half price, rush cultural improvements, etc. The luxury slider was left at 10.0.0 for most of the Middle Ages, but I had a constant 40-turn-gambit. In fact, I one of my scientists researched Military Tradition all by himself.

Now to the highlights:
50BC until 420AD
Ffocused totally on infrastructure (libraries, aqueducts, cathedrals) and the building of archers and galleys. Also, my workers were busy improving the core terrain in anticipation of the switch to a more enlightened government and the coming Golden Age in which our Berserkirs would shine!

420AD-480AD
Endured anarchy en route to Monarchy

620AD
Completed Leonardo's Workshop--This is the pivotal event for our empire! Having missed the Great Library by 9 turns, and missing out on all that extra gold we could have had for mass upgrades, I realized the urgency of snagging this wonder! Especially when one considers the hefty price tag of 100 gold per berserkir. I prefer my berserkirs at half price, thank you.

650AD
Began ferrying massive numbers of upgraded berserkirs (40) to France and to Russia, after having negotiated ROPs with both.

730AD
Troops were positioned en masse outside of all major French and Russian cities. About this time, Russia upgrades their spearmen to musketmen, so I decide to see how the war effort goes with France first, as to not overextend myself. (I'm such a conservative leader!) I attempt to get France to declare war on me by making excessive and numerous demands, but she would not. As much as I detest breaking an ROP agreement, I declared war on her.

730AD-820AD
War with France--It went quite well, considering that France had no saltpeter and that it was my beserkirs on her spearmen. I had trouble with a couple of flips, losing 5 berserkirs in one of them. After that, I stationed the troops outside of the cities, surrounding them. Beserkirs are just too expensive to go losing them! I was happy to see that our conquest of Rheims in 790AD gave us access to the Hanging Gardens. When I made peace with Joan, she had one city left near the original Celtic lands, and she gave me astronomy and chemistry for peace.

Also, during this period, our Golden Age, we were excusively producing berserkirs and horsemen (for mass upgrade to cavalry later). America demanded a luxury of me in 770AD, and my refusal caused him to declare war on me. I never saw neither hide nor hair of him, however.

820AD-1050AD
Continued to build horsemen, improve the overall infrastructure of the empire, and to rush cultural improvements in the newly acquired French lands. In 1020AD, Rheims, along with the Hanging Gardens, flipped back to France. I made a note of it, and alerted my military planners to include it on their list. Also, during this time, the rest of the world was locked in war, with most everyone fighting the Americans. The Americans held more than held their own, however, actually making neighboring China pay for being part of the four nation alliance.

1050AD-1170AD
War with Russia-- I attempted to have her declare on me, but she would not. I didn't have an ROP, so I declared formally and then attacked, preserving at least some dignity. In this war, I used newly upgraded knights en masse to take totally make the Russian lands my own. (I wanted to use cavalry, but all the other civs wanted about 1800 gold for Military Tradition, so I continued using the 40-turn lone scientist gambit. Knights proved to be just fine against Russia's muskets.) I decided against allowing Russia to survive, due to fear of future culture flips. (Moscow had flipped earlier, taking with it about 15 of my berserkirs...) Also, she would not give me a single tech, even when she was down to one city. In 1060, with the acquisition of Sevastopol, we were happy to begin enjoying the benefits of J.S. Bach's Cathedral. In 1070AD, I got my first Great Leader and used him to re-locate the palace to Tours. (It would have taken a whopping 976 turns, otherwise!)

1170AD-1315AD
Continued building knights, galleys (upgraded to caravels), building up gold reserves, and researching Military Tradition in 40-turn gambit. In 1315AD, I upgraded 115 knights to cavalry.

1315AD-1425AD
War with France--This was mainly to re-take Rheims, which had the Hanging Gardens. After re-taking Rheims, I put France on hold for a few minutes, erm, decades, as I had bigger fish to fry, namely Greece.

1340AD-1420AD
War with Greece-- This war went well, netting two great leaders, which were used for building two armies, as there were no Great Wonders on the horizon. I also built the Heroic Epic during this period, however, after about 20 elite victories and no additional great leaders, I'm wondering if my luck were not better without it! My offensive units consisted primarily of cavalry against their riflemen. In the end, my sheer number of cavlary overwhelmed their riflemen. Their core fell relatively quickly, but it took a while to sail northward to take their cities in the old Celtic lands. Also, I lost several galleons full of berserkirs to their ironclads, of which they had an abundance. Their ironclads really slowed down my progress towards their tundra lands, as well as my progress to France's last city. In 1420AD, Greece was down to 3 cities, spread all over the globe. Alexander would either give me 2 cities or techs at a discount as a peace settlement. I decided that the techs were more important, even though having a foothold on the American island would have been nice. I purchased steam power and democracy from Greece for 2525 gold and peace. It was a bargain, considering that England wanted 2500 for steam power alone!

1420AD-1450AD
Endured anarchy en route to democracy.

Looking to the future:

Right now, I am only behind England in tech, and she only has industrialization on me. I'm not sure which pathway to victory I will aim for. I always like to play a balanced game and be able to choose at the midpoint. I have been thinking it over for a while and need to make a decision soon, as today is August 26th... For me, where to go from here has been the most difficult decision of the entire game!

 

[AdrianE]

Civ 1.29b2, MAC

The Age of War (Middle Ages)

Some follow up from my previous spoiler posting. I had settled an outpost to grab the wines on the southern far continent. I rushed some key buildings and units to hold this outpost. Eventually when navigation was learned, the Viking nation had wines. I paid off the Aztecs a couple of times to avoid having to fight over there. Also the Aztecs and Chinese had eliminated the Americans in the ancient age.

As soon as we got knights the Vikings went to war with the French. Greece and Russia were recruited. The French had no chance as I cleaned my peninsula of them and then invaded their mainland. I got Paris and the Sistine Chapel and two other mainland towns. A great leader was born and he formed a knight army.

Immediately after the French war England declared war on us. Oh well we needed to deal with them eventually. The usual allies were recruited and Russia enlisted the Chinese. My first naval invasion didn’t go so well and I had to evacuate the wounded. However a galloglass triggered a golden age. I built a major fleet and dropped tons of units onto the English coast. I seized York which had the lighthouse and Sun Tzu’s in it. It was very convenient that the English provided me with recovery centers in all of the cities I captured from them. Many elite units were born and some died but no great leader. I determined that I need to take the whole English core and starve all the cities down to size 1 as their culture is so massive. Then maybe I’ll give them peace. I already had 1 city flip back to them which cost me an elite musketman. I took it back immediately and then sacked London which gave me the pyramids. At least my knight army (trapped on the former French territory) killed a wayward English longbowman so I could build the heroic epic. I used a combined army of musketmen, galloglasses and knights and some captured catapults. The catapults soften the enemy up, the knights charge and retreat and then the galloglasses exterminate the survivors. Losses were heavy but the English were now weak.

Meanwhile the Chinese were kicking the stuffing out of the Aztecs. Riders and a Golden Age were the deciding factors I think.

As the Middle ages wound down so did the war with the English. London flipped back but I retook it immediately. Towns and cities began to fall. I took Moh-Cs as it had incense. I had researched economics, started Smiths (swapped from almost complete bank) and then refused to trade Economics. That set me back a few techs but I did get Smiths. My income went up by 80 gold when Smiths came online. The bonus cash was used to buy metallurgy from the Greeks and military tradition from the Russians (nothing like paying them cash to dissuade an attack) and I parlayed that into democracy, some of my cash back and free artistry. A great leader rushed the Forbidden Palace in London and I had a second productive core in the formerly English lands.

My horde of workers completely improved my island. The great southern mountain highway way completed for a future invasion of Russia.

Then the Russians decided that the Chinese were a mortal threat and declared war. That’s good as it will keep the Russians busy for a while. The Greeks demanded a map and some gold and I paid as I didn’t want a two front war. However that demand did elevate the Greeks to the next target status. The first war with the English ended after I took the remaining southern English towns. The former English core was mine. I set about a great infrastructure building campaign to upgrade my territory. However, one more formerly English town flipped back to them so I had a short war and pushed their capital into the northern wastes.

Greece was the scientific leader and were 2 techs ahead when the Vikings entered the next age. The Greeks wanted so much for techs that it wasn’t worth buying them. Everyone else was poor so I’d never recover the expenditure. Russia and China ended their pointless war.

The galloglasses didn’t seem to work as naval assault infantry. I used them as heavy assault troops but they were expensive. Knights were more cost effective in assaults on towns and cities as they could retreat and fight again.

 

[Jove]

Arrrrr, a new second job, a new female friend, I can't see how I can finish the GOTM this time. Sorry, mateys! Reality calls...

 

[Jove]

As far as I got, it was lots of fun. I was a high-quality norse raider. Build lots of archers, later upgraded them to Berserks with the help of Mr. Leonardo, and sent them to raid England. They were the #2 science producer, but convenient to attack. I felt harming them would slow the tech pace, which I thought would be important against demi-god AI. Off my dread galleys, they invaded and then abandoned 4 size-12 English cities. Elizabeth was forever furious after that, but what use did my viking hordes have for her pasty-faced goodwill? Not much. It's true, those expensinve Berserks do die too frequently, I'm only Jove, not Odin, but rest assured that each fallen Viking had 2-3 English, French, Russian, Celtic, then Greek accompianists to polish the horns on their helmets in Valhalla. I didn't score as many GL's as I would have liked, but I had enough to build most of the middle-age great wonders in Bjoergvin, Leo's, Shakespeare's, JS Bach's, Newton's, maybe one I'm forgetting. I would have a decent finish time if I had the time to finish this one. My attack-the-tech-leaders strategy failed to some degree, as these guys weren't quite as tough as I thought. Once the Celts were bashed in, the science rate stalled out completely, leaving me struggling to reach the meager cultural possibilites of the next age... the completion of which is superceded by personal real-world events... congrats in advance to all the ultra-civvers! If I can't make it back for awhile, remember, Jove was here!

 

[CruddyLeper]

Argh! The Horror!

I didn't realise that I couldn't build archers after I discovered Invention, and so only had about a dozen Galloglasses through the game. Pitiful waste of an excellent unit.

Another howler - Missed building Shakespeare's Theater for my 20K city. I was going by the manual, rather the Civpaedia. I feel a right nana, I can tell you!

Final booboo - Have wiped all but the Chinese, Americans and Aztecs going into the Industrial Era - and my navy is so pitiful (I have only 4 harbours with low corruption) that it's going to be a real slog to win.

I will win - but I admit I've played this one very lamely indeed, and I reckon a low Jason score on Conquest is the best I can hope for.

 

[Qitai]

Predator Civ3 V1.29

Win by Conquest in 410AD. Summary below.

Tech
Plan is to go straight for MT.

450BC Engineering (12Turn)
290BC Feudalism (8 Turn)
130BC Invention (8 Turn)
10AD Gunpowder (7 Turn)
110AD Chemistry (5 Turn)
210AD Metallurgy (5 Turn)
280AD MT (5 Turn)

Conquest

230BC War French
30BC French killed by Russia, War Russia, Trigger GA with galloglass
70AD Greek killed Russia, Ask Greek to leave, he declares
210AD Declare on English, capture Great lighthouse, Hanging Garden, Pyramid and Great Library
320AD Greek, English both Dead, War Keltoi
360AD Keltoi Dead
380AD US Dead
390AD Chinese Dead
400AD Aztec Dead

Misc
Palace Jump to Orleans in 410BC. Had done a phony war with French earlier and demand the city over. Send 11 workers over to add to pop. Old Core has only size 6 cities at that time. The demand for palace jump site sounds like a good idea to use in future palace jumps.

Never switch to from Monarchy to Republic since I am getting close to 4 turn research with GA in Monarchy.

About 5-10 flips in the game, losing a few cavalries and galloglass. Abandon numerous cities to avoid flips. I did not build any culture.

4 Great Leaders – Build SunTze, Leonardo, Aqueduct and Nothing – got it in 390AD


Old/New Tricks used
(A) Greek wouldn’t died and they have about 6 galleys floating around. Did not know which to attack. Abandon cities near them and station cavalries near the shore. As hoped, Greek is dumb enough to land their settlers for me to kill

(B) (Expliot) I get the option to automatically remove Greek troop when my alliance/ROP ends with the death of Russia. I repeatedly ask Greek to move (on the same turn) even though the troops have already been automatically moved on the first request. He declares war after about 10 tries, giving me the reverse WW I want. Maybe this should be ban.

(C) Keep AI permanently cash dry by selling tech and whenever necessary, buy gold for gpt, until AI has enough gpt to pay for my tech. This has the effect that although they have Feudalism and Iron, only a handful of cities actually have pikeman (No $$ to upgrade).

(D) Tried the connect/disconnect resource trick every turn this time by placing 6 workers, 1 warrior on a saltpeter tile, allowing me to build cavalries at the much reduce cost of 30shield + 50gold. This should be banned.

(E) Repeated ROP Rape as usual after I broke the first one.


Observations
(A) The goto command for the galley did not work well, it often choose a longer route (using manual move, it takes me 2 turn but the goto command takes 3-6 turns.

(B) My game Crash twice. Wonder what happen?

(C) The combination of 6 move Galley and galloglass makes island hunting much much faster.

(D) Alex corruption formula is exact up to my ring of 4 cities at rank 8, distance 6. The next ring at rank 12, distance 7 has much reduce corruption then what his formula indicates. Got to do some research on this when I have time. Further, halfway though, after I capture and abandon some English cities (at distance more than 7) the corruption for the distance 7 cities increase for no apparent reason.

(E) A Greek city flips even when Greek has no capital. I wonder how they factor in the distance.

 

[Yndy]

I just got to the Industrial ages yesterday in about 850AD. Everything is very slow and like every month I wonder if I will finish the game. Additionally, this month I wonder if I would finish with the designated 20K culture victory, currently due in 1886AD.

I have fought all the way through the Medieval Ages but I also lost a lot of ground. By now, I conquered the entire starting sub-continent, the southern (English) half of the Celtic-English Island, and some cities in remote locations. At one point I had 5 Chinese cities but as my forces pulled out, the Americans declared war and captured them.

The Third English war that I’m currently fighting produced three leaders so far and the first was used to move the palace in the former Greek territories. The other were used for the second and third armies and I’m now waiting for another one to rush Pentagon.

PS: Great win Qitai

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by Yndy
PS: Great win Qitai

WOW! I can only echo Yndy's words! Really very impressive Qitai!

 

[Offa]

Originally posted by Qitai
Predator Civ3 V1.29

Win by Conquest in 410AD. Summary below.

Tech
Plan is to go straight for MT.

That is quick.

How do you manage to kill them off so fast. I see you don't start war too early, but the AI seem to vanish almost at once when you attack. How many troops do you have, and how do they get in position quickly enough?

Your tech pace while at war is spectacular. How?

 

[Qitai]

Military at 400AD
43 Warriors - did not send to war, just use as MP
13 horseman - was lazy the last 2 turns, can upgrade if I want
3 musketman
87 cavalry
5 catapult - captured - lazy to disband
54 galley
1 Med. Infantry
44 Galloglass

Here is how I handle each Civ

French - Easy - only couple of town with about 4 spearman each. The number of spearman per city is higher than expected but I had 22 horseman. And when I attack stacking 8 horseman in a group before I attack any city. All cities within 2 tiles which means I can reach their city from my territory. MA with Russian too. Almost non-existant retaliation.

Russian - Easy - About 2 spearman per town. I had 50 horseman, 7 galloglass by this time. Ally with Greek, mainly to draw greek's offensive troop out into my land rather than to help me. He did capture two town in the process.

From here on, I am in Golden Age.

Greek - hoplite - medium - did not attack initially since I am getting reverse WW. Greek offensive troop were killed when he declare since they are all in my land at that time. No horse for him so only snail moving troops wander into my land at times, killed off easily. Attack only in 260AD after AI got chivalry. Sold Gunpowder to Aztec for 91gpt and trade chivalry from another AI that turn. So, it is knight versus hoplite. 2 turns later it is cavalries versus hoplite. Easy. Had 20 horseman, 15 knight and 28 cavalries and converting 12 horseman per turn. Earning 600gpt. 46 Galloglass with 31 galley directed to English only.

English - easy-medium - Declare with 32 Galloglass and 21 galley. All cities except London is non-coastal. Almost all defense is spearman (Remember, they were kept poor so no upgrades, only fresh pikeman which is less than 2 if I remember right). A galley with 2 galloglass is enough to take care of 1 city most of the time. Started with the capture of New York and Nottingham which gives me the Great Lighthouse. Makes ship movement superb. In some sense, it is even better than cavalries with the galley/galloglass combination since galloglass gets to heal while I re-position them. Almost zero casulties. London is taken care of after I move cavalries from the Greek front. Also, forward planning has position galloglass/galley to move to the offshore islands even before capturing the Great Lighthouse. 7 movement is really fast - yeap, I did move 7 tiles per turn using ocean jump lanes, slowing down only when I need to move inshore to attack.

Keitol - Easy - First ROP rape with about 30 cavalries. Finish in 2 turns. Ignore offensive troop. They disappear after I take all the cities.

US - Easy. I MA them fighting Chinese since the ancient times and then MA Aztec to fight them when I war them about 10 turns before the real attack. Got rid of the offshore coastal towns using galloglass/galley combo in the meantime. For the main thrust, although they had many towns, the pop are low and washington had only 1 pop. Don't even had a city (size 7). Again, galloglass took care of all the coastal town and cavalries do the moopup. Again, almost all spearman with about 5 pikeman at most in all my attack. Peace, demand ROP and ROP Rape on the same turn whenever I get the chance to hasten the moopup.

Chinese - Easy-medium. I am at war with them since ancient times. With galloglass from all directions (I am building galley from both shores and sending Galloglass from both sides). Again, galloglass Versus spearman and some pikeman. As earlier, a galley with 2 galloglass can handle most town. The final moopup with cavalries is easy too with about 12 cavalries send their direction and only 3 towns left to take.

Aztec - My ally until the last turn, Had ROP. Had about 25 Cavalries position within his land by this time and all the galley/galloglass combo to handle the wayward coastal towns. Took all his cities and left the his 3 knight and 5 longbowman alone. Abandon the cities so he could not take them back. Could have finsih a turn earlier if not for the unexpected extra longbow man in one of the wayward town. Only Tenochtitlan has 2 musketman. Rest had one pikeman and 2 spearman. Wayward towns had only 2 spearman.

 

[Qitai]

For Tech, I had the Golden Age and both cities core up and running already. So, running at 100% science, I had 355 beakers per turn in 10BC. This went up to 550 by the time I research MT. Enough for 5 turn research. Troop maintenance is not a problem since I had enough cities to support the massive troop. Getting 157gpt from AI as well.

I can discuss more on economy if you like to know any aspect of things. Anyway, here is a screen shot of F1 in 10AD

 

[Txurce]

Qitai, I have a decent handle on the speed of your conquests, as you do what I try to do, just better. But I definitely want to pick your brain about your infrastructure.

The first big difference that I notice between your game and most others (definitely including mine) is the large number of workers that you build during the QSC period. I assume that this early focus on workers results in a big increase in productivity and gold in a period when most economies are pretty flat. Are you indeed focusing on revving up your economy as early as possible? Do you have any set approaches to early worker production?

The other big difference that I see is probably connected to your use of workers: your accelerated research pace. I could argue the merits of quitting research early in this game, since most cities were coastal and the galloglass handles them better than cavalry, but you researched so quickly that there was no downside to going all the way to military tradition.

You didn't build libraries; how about markets, or did you just count on civ size, monarchy and an early FP to crank up your tech rate? More to the point, how do you maximize your reseach while being always at war? And still have gold for constant cavalry upgrades?

 

[Qitai]

Yes, you are right about the workers. That is where I think that I had made a difference. I crank up to 72 workers by 410BC before the palace Jump and then slowly reducing that to 20 workers in the end, replacing with slave worker from wars instead after that.

In the early stage of the game, I did not focus much on military or infrastructure, just pop, workers and settlers. Only enough military for immediate defense and infrastructure which has a high return on investment. All in all, in 410BC, I had 4 granaries, 5 barrack, 1 temple and 4 harbor. Here are the rationals

4 Granaries - Ony four in cities which can use food bonus tiles to churn on workers or settlers - the factories.
5 Barrack - troop producing towns
1 temple - production overrun due to wrong planning on having two forest done on the same turn and having 20+ shield in production already, so switch to something useful.
4 harbours - the much needed food to use the water tiles.

The rest of the towns produces warrior by default or a worker if it is going to work on a 1 food tile. One rule I had always observe is that if I am not getting a pop to work on a tile with at least 2 food, 1 shield and 1 trade, I build a worker (i.e. fully improved)

Using the bonus food granaries town, and the rule above, I essentially is able to get most town to size 6 each producing reasonable output of at least 2 food, 6 shield and 6 trade (unless I am using coast tile, in which case, it will be 2 food, 18 trade or it's equivalent, you get the point?).

In this game, I have also maximize the river to avoid the need for aqueduct. So, my city placement involved squeezing the max number of cities possible beside the river. The rest of the cities which are unable to use the river are then place further away to allow these river towns to use all the available tiles. I had only one GL rushed aqueduct in this game. The outer towns, I then try to use RCP if possible centering on my FP. I will attach a picture of my town placement below.

As for the research. Well, I need no cash before I get MT. And having tried slower research in the GOTM20 and 21, I found that my old ways of max research is still better. What I realize is that by continuing my research, I always have tech to sell to AI and those $$ that flows in is actually comparable if not much more than me switching off research and earning gold myself. The other advantage of this is that this keeps AI cash dry resulting in almost zero upgrades even if you sell them the new technology. So, even with 100% research, I had easily over 1400gc when I get invention and 1000gc when I get chivalry(I traded chivalry late, 2 turns before I get MT). I am cash dry when I get MT, but the 600 trade which goes to research previously now all goes to cash. So, I can upgrade 12 horseman to cavalries every turn easily. Doesn't take long before all troops are fully upgraded.


No libraries because the ROI is not as good as other options, even in golden age. Here are the figures - I had about 26 trade in golden age. So, a library increase that by 13 research beaker. A library cost 80 shield. That same shield, I can build 2.67 horsemans which can probably easily capture 3/4 of a town with either 1 or no losses. A decent size town can easily give me 5 trade and will increase over time. And there is also the additional shield and food. Further, the horseman can be re-use to capture even more cities. Using this reasoning, more horseman seems to be better than a library.

Only one marketplace after another shield miscalculation during godlen age, not wanting to waste about 20 shields. The reasoning is similar. I am able to pretty much keep my citizens happy using MP, monarch allows 3MP, plus 1 default and 6 luxuries, I can have 10 pop without luxury slider. 12 after I got my reverse WW. The two additional pop does not seems to help especially I can already produce either 15 or 30 shield for my horsemans. Shields from 16 to 29 are just wasted shields. As for the cash part, as noted earlier, I need no cash for my essentials. And my slider is at 100% research so, no use there.

So, essentially, you are right there. The size of the empire, 2 cores, land development, golden age and the income from AI is all I need to maintain the research. The cavalries upgrade is done after I am done with all the research.

An additional point which you did not ask but if you try my style is that you will come upon the problem of getting the cultural border (remember, I had extremely low culture due to only 1 temple and no libraries). To get around that, the outer ring is plan in such a way that it will give me the free cultural border linkup.

Anyway, here is the snapshot of 410BC. You may like to compare how much you have already develop in the same year for the game. I suspect mine is already much more development than most players. Note that my workers are already starting to work on the mountains having finish all the other faster task. The patch of unimproved grassland to the northwest of FP is the old palace site.

 

[Qitai]

If you like to see more screenshots of different years or save file, let me know. I will post them.

 

[civ_steve]

Very nice game, Qitai! You beat the conquest date in the calculator by almost 600 years I'll have to take a closer look at the strategy of demanding a city for peace, then jumping the Palace to it. That creates a stable base to launch a future invasion from, since you can't lose your Palace city to flips; also, you can easily transport your attacking forces to this city by stashing them in a throwaway border city and gifting it to an ally. Nice strategy to use your research capability to keep the AI broke, also. (You've given me a lot to think about, Thanks!)

 

[rabies]

Qitai,

Thanks for taking the time to explain your thinking/strategy. I benefited alot from it. Compared to any of my games at 410 BC, your lands are VERY developed. Heck, even when I play an industrial civ, my lands look nothing like that for hundreds more years. 72 workers by 410 BC...wow...

I do notice you irrigate a lot of grassland. Is this to pump workers faster? Do you later convert those to mines?

 

[Offa]

Qitai,

Your explanations are very helpful, and provide a great deal of food for thought. Basically, you played the whole game superbly.

I am particularly impressed by the large army you produced so early on. I presume your mastery of the qsc is the key. I remember that in gotm 20 you achieved a 4 turn settler+warrior factory, which was disturbingly clever of you: do you micromanage a lot, or what do you do? Is there any hope for Offa, or should I revert to Medal of Honour?


It is all very impressive.

 

[Txurce]

Qitai, thanks for giving such a detailed breakdown of your strategy. The level of development in your 410BC map is mindblowing - everything else falls into place more clearly after that! I could ask more questions indefinitely, but will save most of the detailed ones for after I try your approach. I do have two for now, though:

Originally posted by Qitai
4 Granaries - Ony four in cities which can use food bonus tiles to churn on workers or settlers - the factories.... The rest of the towns produces warrior by default or a worker if it is going to work on a 1 food tile. One rule I had always observe is that if I am not getting a pop to work on a tile with at least 2 food, 1 shield and 1 trade, I build a worker (i.e. fully improved)

Your 2-1-1 rule makes a lot of sense. I assume that in a game with no nearby food bonuses, you would build no granaries, and play the same strategy, just growing more slowly?

Originally posted by Qitai
No libraries (or marketplaces) because the ROI is not as good as other options, even in golden age... The size of the empire, 2 cores, land development, golden age and the income from AI is all I need to maintain the research.

I assume that this strategy would work even if going for a space or diplomatic victory, in that you would expand close to the domination limit in the Middle Ages - or at least to the extent of your two cores - and then start building markets, banks, libraries and universities. All that you would lose is the advantage of big cities, but that wouldn't be enough to keep you from four-turn research in the industrial age and beyond, if you have maxed-out cores with all the buildings.

 

[gozpel]

Qitai, I will remember these lines forever

"Here are the figures - I had about 26 trade in golden age. So, a library increase that by 13 research beaker. A library cost 80 shield. That same shield, I can build 2.67 horsemans which can probably easily capture 3/4 of a town with either 1 or no losses."

The GrandMaster speaks to the ignorant pupils

Tho I had 22 towns at 1000bc, I didn't utilize my early advantage as well as I could have done. It seems almost impossible for me to get that balance and foreseeing in my games, I always get slack when I have things up and running. Atm I'm trying my best to learn how to use military, but by doing so I fall behind in infrastructure, which is normally my strength.

And when I concentrate on building stuff, my military suffers

Darn catch 22!

But by reading and "replaying" your games Qitai, I believe I will learn one day too It's just a bit abstract right now, but I look forward to build my 2.67 horsemen to take those 3/4 towns! LOL!

Brilliant!