*Spoiler2* Gotm24-Korea - Full world Map + Hwach'a/Cannons

[smackster]

Originally posted by Txurce
Smackster: as acivguy pointed out, conquering the Han raises your Jason score, on which the GOTM competition is centered, without necessarily damaging your chances of a diplomatic victory. If you view the game strictly as the first of the new Medal Play season, then conquering the Han may or may not help the research pace required to gain a diplomatic victory asap.

Yes, I have my brain so fixed around fastest win now that I only think about the score when I go to post the win (or loss). I like the fastest win idea as it does shorten the length of the game a little without reducing the enjoyment.

 

[Txurce]

Originally posted by smackster

I like the fastest win idea as it does shorten the length of the game a little without reducing the enjoyment.

I also enjoy not worrying about civ size - in game 5-6, I never bothered to approach the northern island, because I didn't need it. It took me forever to adapt to playing for anything other than fastest time. However, I've come to realize that building a good-sized civ is often the fastest way to the fastest time.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

Predator level.

Here is a repost of my Ancient Age timeline with the contact and trades with other nations that resulted from a suicide junk. In the initial post I cut them:

4000 BC – Founded Seoul on the spot; worker to cow; terra cotta in 15 turns
3800 BC – Warrior exploring south
3600 BC – Start Barracks for Granary prebuild; 2nd Warrior exploring east; Worker to S wool
3450 BC – Met Kyon Hwon of Baekje; 2nd warrior turns southeast
3300 BC – Researching Burial Rituals at max; switch to Granary
3200 BC – Worker heads to northern wool
3050 BC – Granary complete; start warrior
3000 BC – Met Wu-Ti of Han dynasty; Met Kwanggaeto of Gogury; traded Wu Alphabet for Masonry, 10g; traded Kwang Alphabet for Martial Arts, Burial Rit, 8g; Research Taoist Mysticism at full - necessary luxuries
2950 BC – 3rd Warrior goes north; Micromanaging Seoul-considering switching off Myst at full because when I moved citizen to road-less grassland, research time went up, Nah, I’ll leave it. Running deficit of -1
2900 BC –1st warrior exploring west between Han and coastline; 2nd warrior exploring NE on Gogury border
2850 BC – 4th Warrior complete, assigned to police force; start settler (due in 3, growth in 3). The enemies are capturing land fast.
2750 – spotted giant squid in water east of Munsan!
2710 BC – first settler produced, start warrior
2630 BC – warrior produced, start settler
2590 BC – founded P’yongyang 3 squares due south of Seoul
2510 BC – settler done, start another (this time done in 4 with growth every 2)
2390 BC – traded Kwang Myst for Iron Culture; 40 turns to Shamanism; oooh, neet: the place I was already sending settler is on iron
2350 BC – sending settler to far-off wine-hope he makes it; Founded Wonsan on Iron-may go for Pyramids
2030 BC – founded Pusan 2 squares northwest of wine
1990 BC – traded Kyon Masonry, 11g for Wheel
1950 BC – traded Kyon Iron Culture for 40g; founded Puhang, my first coastal city
1910 BC – founded Yondok
1675 BC – founded Andong; built last settler, switching to workers for a while
1650 BC – Kyon wanted 35 gold and I sent him packing (with great trepidation)
1575 BC – Discovered new Iron near Pusan
1550 BC – Founded Samchok; traded Wu 165g for Calligraphy
1525 BC – Founded Kangyang
1400 BC – Wu established embassy in my capitol
1325 BC – Switched Seoul to footman in anticipation of forest harvest
1300 BC – Wu has Map Making, but too expensive at Monopoly
1175 BC – Traded Wu Shamanism for Mapmaking, Map, 140g (left him with 1g); traded Kwang Shamanism for Math and 5g (all); traded Baekje map for map and 30g (all); traded Wu map for 1g
1025 BC – Spotted a volcano? on the little island (and lots of barbs)
950 BC – Sent my junk on a suicide mission off the west coast of the volcano island. Sure wish I knew what the heck those things do
900 BC – Lost my junk far out at sea and in sight of land
875 BC – Traded Baekje Shamanism for Bajatsu
825 BC – Takeda constructed Oracle; Oda constructed Colossus
650 BC – Refused to give Han tribute, he declared war; Established embassy with Kyon (Pyramids 12 turns) and Kwang (Pyramids 10 turns): mine will be done in 4; gave Kwang wool, 100g, map for alliance; upgrading 5 warriors to swordsmen; moving others to barracks for upgrade
630 Suicide galley meets the Mori at and got this message: “; Hidemoto San = AI’s trade offer” Indeed, and double gobbledygook on you! Hidemoto has lots of contacts to trade. Traded 260 for Kuroda contact;
traded Nagamasa Shamanism, 125g for Contact with Chosogabe and Tokugawa;
Traded Marichika Shamanism, MapMaking, 10g for Contact with Oda, Takeda and Map;
Traded Takeda World Map, Shamanism for Map, 14g, Confucianism;
Traded Kuroda World Map for Map and 150g (all);
Traded Tokugawa map for map and 62g (all);
Traded Baekje Map for Civil Service and 30g plus alliance against Han;
Traded Goguryeo Map for 107g(all) and map;
traded Oda map for 133g and map;
traded Mori map and civil service for 370g, map;
traded Chosogabe map for 13g and map
590 BC – Traded Oda 315g and map for Construction; built Pyramids
490 BC – Traded Goguryeo Construction, Map and 330g for Monarchy;
Put Seoul on Hanging Gardens hoping for GL prebuild;
Traded Baekje Construction for 112 (all)
470 BC – Revolution
410 BC – Lost race for Great Lighthouse to my “buddies”, the Goguryeo, switched to Hanging Gardens
390 BC – Korean Monarchy Formed; switched to Literacy at full – luxuries
380 BC – Built hanging gardens
370 BC – Traded Tokugawa Monarchy for Currency, entered middle ages;
Traded Kuroda Monarchy for 240g,
Traded Baekje 35 for worker;
Traded Takeda Monarchy for 101 gold plus map
310 BC – Met Shimazu…thought I had already met everyone. They have a one-square island city. I hate it when the computer makes those!
70 AD – Refuse to be blackmailed, Karoda declare war
90 AD – Refuse to be blackmailed, Takeda declare war
410 AD – declared war on Goguryeo
420 AD – finished Sistene Chapel and entered Golden Age

 

[bradleyfeanor]

For the rest of my GA, I built mostly knights with a few libraries and markets thrown in. Right near the end I switched to cavalry. I had temples everywhere early on. At this point I also looked back over my posting, and realized that—with the exception of the trading information—I had left out everything of interest, like strategic decisions or the progress of the other nations. Oooops. I will try to do a little better in the future.

Best effort at recapping main decisions in 560 AD (warning: this is going to be disjointed).

I only settled 8 cities from my settler factory, because all the good territory was gone around 1675 BC. Wish I had read Qitai’s post about the settler/warrior factory: I was just one turn of micromanagement away…I never secured a horse resource, so Kaesong became a planned target early in the game. When they build the Lighthouse in Munson in 410 BC their fate was sealed—although I waited too long for the war. I am guessing it was around 800 BC that I was able to trade with the Baekje for Horses, and proceeded to build many of them leading up to my war on the Goguryeo in 410 AD.

I found Japan by luck. Unlike many of you, I did not notice the “upside down” Korean peninsula. The trading was wonderful, although I never gave them contact with the Korean continent. By the time Seafaring was discovered, I had forgotten about the contacts and missed my opportunity.

In the early AD, Tokugawa was by far the strongest nation, followed by the Kuroda and then the Oda, Takeda, Shimazu and Koreans. However, the Kuroda declared war on me, and I had their neighbors—the Oda and the Mori—ally with me. The Kuroda were all but destroyed within 200 years. They maintained one coastal city on the southernmost tip of Takeda lands. I signed a similar alliance with Tokugawa against the Takeda but saw no results from it. Only the Baekje and Tokugawa are ahead of me in culture. The power graph places the Oda as strongest by a fairly large margin. Sicing them on the Kuroda may have unpleasant future consequences.

I got Samurai Code in 400 AD and upgraded horsemen in mass (I had a little over 2000g at that point. I continued to build knights throughout the war with Goguryeo. I had been at war with the Han since early in the ancient age, but because I had the Goguryeo sign an alliance with me, I never saw a single Han unit until I had taken all the Goguryeo cities except Kuson, located on the south eastern coast. As I had captured the southern and northern irons early in the game, Goguryeo only had spearmen to defend his cities from my knights. The Goguryeo and I are now at peace. I took Beijing in 540 AD and then signed peace with them as well. In 560 AD I continued my military buildup (26 knights, 19 muskets, and a few kensai and catapults) in preparation for war with the Baekje, who still control 11 cities on the continent.

When I signed the peace treaty, I noticed many of my citizens become UNhappy. War making people HAPPY? I had never noticed this in other games. I am usually a Republic or Democracy, so I was wondering if this is a function of Monarchy or if there was a modification made to this scenario. Anyone know about this phenomenon? I also noted that my citizens have been extremely happy this game in general. I am not sure if this is simply a combination of the lower emperor difficulty level and luxuries, or if there is another factor in play.

I started my FP at some point in the early AD in Samchok (9.5 distance SE from Seoul) and the most central location on the continent. It was finished around 500 AD. At the time I started the build I was planning to establish a second core later in Tokogawa/Takeda holdings with my palace. Now I am thinking this was a poor decision, simply because of the time such a war will require. My turns go ridiculously slow when I am at war. It may mean I will not finish by the submission deadline. I wish I had established my cores on either end of my continent and ridden the peace train to the end. The war on the Japanese continent may also make the diplomatic victory much more difficult: I am not really sure how relations will develop with the foreign nations. I imagine it will depend on the number of allies I can secure when the UN is built.

Since around 400 AD, my research has taken around 4-6 turns per discovery, but the AI is staying right with me. I have been able to successfully choose techs he has not, however, and the trades have been quite profitable. I am currently at war with the Takeda, Kuroda and Oda.

Wonders construction has gone pretty well, but that is also why my wars came so late: Pyramids (590 BC), Hanging Gardens (110 BC), Great Library (90 BC), Leonardo (380 AD), Sistene (410 AD)

By the way, I watch the fascinating and entrancing movements of the Horde on Barbarian Island for 22 seconds after every turn—with shift held down. Aaarrrgh.

The civs on the Japanese continent all seem extremely warlike (annoyed), toward me, but they are quite happy with each other. A few alliances did move them to cautious or polite temporarily.

End of 560 recap.

570 AD – declared war on Baekje. Took 4 cities.
580 AD – bad, bad luck. One of my irons expired, and it popped up right next to the Baekje capitol. Goodbye footmen, hello pikemen. Crap.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Thanks for the answers guys. So for next game, I will build a second city, then warrior rush. Regroup, and immediately make my second war. That is, of course, unless another settler factory turns up.

 

[test_specimen]

lol. Sorry for not reading the whole rules. I thought if it says spoiler, it means you can post anything. But since I played almost straight through, and since I already have finished my game, it's hard to post without pointing out where my mistakes were, in retrospect.

To limit it to the middle ages: I also built the Sistine Chapel and IIRC Newton's Univ.. I finished off pink, Han finished off olive. I got most advances through clever trade, since my science infrastructure was at the beginning of the MA not very well established (thought that the GL would take care of this). I did not plan for another war. I tried to keep everyone as happy as could be, so they would leave me and my scientific advance alone.

 

[SewerStarFish]

I got my GA through Great Library and Adam Smith but even maximizing research I just can't get the lead in science. I've united the northern end of the peninsula (South Korea) but am well on my way to losing my 3rd out of 4 GOTM.

If I can get Takeda off my back I'll concentrate on uniting Korea and conquering the Han as a cool "yeah, I lost but..." goal

 

[akots]

Predator, 1.27f PTW, my first gotm played with PTW.

Nothing exciting happened in the Ancient Ages just building and settling. We somehow managed to get Great Library and Great Wall.

Good luck was that our junk made contact with Japanese civilization in about 1300 BC. Bad luck included mainly 3 points. First, astonishing lack of leaders despite about 30 elite wins during victorious wars with Gogury and Baekje. That is why the second core is not established because the Forbidden Palace is still being hand-built. Second, and probably related to the first, is lack of wonders. We have only STAW and Japanese beat us constantly for 2-3 turns to others so Seoul has very expensive Cathedral and Bank. Third, revolting from Despotism to Republic took 7 turns but we did not fell behind in science thanks to the Great Library.

Overall situation by the end of the Middle Ages is satisfactory. We kept monopoly for contacts with Japanese and made huge money trading maps and some techs because of this. From Baekje we inherited Pyramids and thus Firaxis score is more or less OK (about 1500 at the beginning of Industrial Age at 570 AD). We are fully ready to war with Han and can take him out probably within no more that 10 turns. All Japanese civilization are polite except Shimazu who carelessly wanted to abuse RoP by landing a stack of warriors near Seoul and trying to sneak-attack it.

The game is exceptionally funny and getting a high score or winning around 1000 AD can be very difficult. To increase the score, it would be probably possible to conquer 2 or even 3 Japanese civilizations however this may slow down the research significantly.

 

[Gleodhman]

In this age, my focus is consolidating my continent for me! I have Temples, Barracks and am focused on military units, mostly foot soldiers. In hindsight – needed more mobile forces for balance. Stayed in Despotism to pop-rush temples in all new captured territory. In hind-site probably should have gone with libraries as they were cheaper. What are thoughts on Monarchy vs. Despotism for middle age wars? All my wars were declared so as not to ruin my reputation; does it matter if others never find out, or do other civ’s know automatically? I prefer total war (only leave 1-2 cities to trade for techs, then wipe out; if they are behind, no mercy). Seems many have the limited war process down.

230BC – still in AA, started total war on Baekjen; 30AD now the Goguryean feel my wrath. The Odan show up to say hi, so I meet all the Japanese; realized I’m way behind in tech. Capture GL from Gog’s in 360 AD getting 6 techs, up to Gunpowder and Education. I only use a scientist for 40-turn research. Since I have an abundance of resources, trading saltpeter and other for techs throughout the ages with the warring Japanese, though they never bug me. In 430 AD start war w/ Han. In 790AD build the only middle age wonder I got, Newton’s University, triggering my Despot Golden Age (had Colossus built earlier). At this point only a cleanup war in which I eliminate all other civ’s from my continent by 980 AD, by which time I entered the next age so ‘nough said for now. All this war and NO culture flips (yea!) or great leaders (boo!). I use elite troops whenever possible, is there some trick I’m missing? Even in GOTM 23 I only got one great leader on my way to a domination victory.

Great scenario!! Love the graphics, historical accuracy by using real "tribes", etc..

 

[CdB]

Monarchy vs Despotism ?
I usually jump to more advanced governement type because production is vastly improved and help you bring more reinforcement.

Reputation ?
If you can manage to wipe out all civs from your continent without the other continent knowing. you can do it with all "dirty" tricks available - Sneak attack - ROP breach ...

 

[fourknee]

Quick summary up to middle ages.

Played on Conquest level due to the fact I got it handed to me with the vikings and wanted to get a step up on this one.

Han, Baekje, and Goguryeo moved fast in their expansion and I had to get the settlers pumping to keep up with them.

Built GL as my only Ancient wonder

Han was too big to conquer and stayed my biggest competition all game.

Baekje picked up some nice early wonders so I targeted them for first expansion.

I started to attack Baekje in the AA and didnt get through them with some poor battle tactics. Vied for peace until I got Sun Zu and knights and went through them got pyramids and sistine from them.

Kept up the warlike ways and took out Goguryeo soon thereafter.

Good timing on attacking Goguryeo as when I got Adam Smiths it kicked in my GA. Goguryeo went down fast and I went into peace mode for the rest of the game.

Was close to tech level of others but lagged behind one or so until the next spoiler.

 

[Donner]

Not doing as well as I would have hoped by now, but still having a great time with this game. Only one small complaint - there is no way... and I mean NO WAY that little barb island could support all those horses !!!

I put the first city there along with 5 spear and 1 sword. I sent more units over as they were available and soon had a number of elites, but thos barbs kept coming and coming and coming!!

Well, ended up spending a much longer time focused there lost track of the big picture. I was the first to Feudalism, but wanted to hold off trading anyone until I was able to finish up on Barb Island, then go take the Pyramids from Baekje. Got so focused on the barbs that I missed making the trade altogether - someone finished researching and beat me to it. By the time I got my forces back and in position for Baekje, they had Gunpowder already and my forces were no longer the 'superior' force I had planned on fielding.

The Han then declared war against the Baekje, and I watched them absorb a wave of Baekje knights then begin to march northward. I was still trying to add some knights to my own forces when it looked as if the Han were going to be taking the Baekjen pyramids soon. So, I entered a MPP with Han and got the Baekja to attack.

Unfortunately, the majority of my forces were shot to pieces at the first Baekjen city by their muskets. By the time I was able to field enough knights to take the first city, the Han were on the doortstep of their capital, and they took the pyramids soon after.

On the bright side, Baekje seems to have stripped most of the remaining cities in an attempt to hold off the Han, so I should be able to get a couple more cities and at least some resources.

I've embassies with almost all of the other civs and am on good terms. Just need to keep the Han happy after we're finished mopping up the Baekjen!

 

[Megalou]

Placing a city on barb island and gifting it to the richest AI would have been a good prank. But for a fast diplomatic victory it is not important to keep the AI poor, since we need to trade science. (Unless we want to attack them and bar their upgrade options.) During the Middle ages I found out that always researching something that the AI would not choose (eg Chemistry and Metallurgy) gave me huge amounts of money.

The AI civs seem to have an unfortunate habit (for them) to all research the same thing, then buy it from the civ that completes it first. Since several AI:s then have the same tech, that tech loses it's value compared to our own tech and we can sell ours to the richest civ for tons of gold, then to the second richest for heaps of gold, and so on until that tech is also devalued. I recall that France have sometimes researched literature when nobody else has, but I'm not at all sure I remember correctly.

My observations from Barb Island were that by the time the AI had pikemen, the even stupider barbs could not hurt them. I did not settle Barb Island myself, but trained my knights a little on the unsettled area. Boy, this game takes time. Large maps must be for big fanatics, and huge maps must be for fanatically fanatic fanatics (or something).

 

[grahamiam]

This is my first post at civfanatics and my first GOTM that I really going to try to submit. It's also my first Emporer level game so drinks all around on me! I'd also like to thank all those who post stratagies here as they have made Civ 3 become, for me, one hell of an addiction! My wife does not thank you.

Anyway, I was trying for the QSC but messed up the submittal file so I will save that first for another time. By 1000 B.C. I had encountered the 3 other civ's on the island and decided that I must have this landmass. I was able to complete the GL in 800 B.C. and ride the tech wave all the way to Chemistry/Education (got both on the same turn due to thankfully savy AI trading). However, for whatever inane reason, I was trying to research along the lower branch while conquering the pinks and greens. This wasted a lot of money and probably will cost me later in this game.

By 330 B.C., I had finished by first war with the Baekje and had taken 4 cities and autorazed 1. They were, however, able to build the Pyr. and Great Lighthouse. 1 turn before I launched my second war (20 turns after the end of the 1st), the Baekje had met all the Japanese civ's and sold them my contact. While this was great research-wise, it messed-up my rep. Oh well, they paid for it in spades!

By 250 B.C., Baekje are completely off the continent and settled 1 last city on a little isle east (next to Tak.). At 400 A.D., war with the olives is started. They are completely assimilated by 600 A.D. in one long conflict. I now control the continent down to the neck near the capital of the Han.

However, in two wars and numerous battles, I get exactly 0 great leaders. A bit fat 0! My infrastructure is weak and I am behind (I believe) by at least 4 techs. I finish researching metalurgy only to be beaten by the Han's by 2 turns. I spend way too much money on troop support and happiness to get any real research going. In my previous Monarchy games, I was able to get to Military Tradition 1st and then continue my conquering ways. This time this stratagy looks like it's doomed. I am completely dejected and almost decide to quite.

However, after a good nights sleep, I go back at it. I put the research slider to 0%, change one entertainer to scientists, build up some cash reserves, and go on a tech buying spree. Much to my suprise, I am only 2 techs behind so I am able to wheel and deal quite well, trading for astronomy, banking, physics, military tradition, democracy, etc. all the way to the industrial ages. With the IA tech, I get all the money back, plus more and get lots of luxuries. Everyone is happy and I'm ready to go on an infrastructure/unit upgrading spree. Looks like I might pull this off yet.

 

[Naboo]

Originally posted by Megalou
Placing a city on barb island and gifting it to the richest AI would have been a good prank.



Bloody marvelous!

 

[smackster]

Originally posted by Naboo

Originally posted by Megalou
Placing a city on barb island and gifting it to the richest AI would have been a good prank.



Bloody marvelous!

Dear Sir,

Sorry to be Mr. Killjoy here, but I think the intent is to allow the AI to get rich (by whatever means they devise) and that allows them to spend all their hard earned cash on your newly researched technology / and or spare (or not spare) resources.

Yours Faithfully,

Mr Killjoy

 

[BerzerkerJoe]

This may be a bit off topic, but going through these posts, I am amazed at the number of great leaders everyone seems to get. Either I am very unlucky or I'm doing something wrong - I have all but wiped out the three other Civs on the landmass using elite units whenever possible, have barracks everywhere and not got a leader. My last GOTM was similar where I got a diplo victory but no leaders untill it was too late to make a difference.

My question is - is there a stratagy to maximise the chance of a leader occuring?


ps great map cracker

 

[mad-bax]

Berzerkerjoe: I used to have exactly the same problem as you. But now I have a "method" if you can call it that which works for me.

Firstly I only go to war with vet and elite units. Regulars stay home.
The second thing is that a unit is guaranteed a promotion if it wins two battles in one turn. So I place vet units next to enemy units and allow them to be attacked on the interturn. The ones that survive unscathed are then used to attack something when my turn comes round. If I win I get an elite. In this way I have a high proportion of elite units.

The third thing is that I use fast units. This is because they can retreat and therefore have a higher surviveability. Although weaker, you wind up with a higher proportion of elite units again.

The fourth thing I do is to ensure I have a barracks close to the action so I can heal units quickly and get them back into battle.

As far as the actual battles go I don't do anything different to most people. The battle will start using vet units and then the elites are used on weaker and damaged units. Elites are also used on unfortified units in open ground.

I always stack my elites on a unit that has a higher defensive value. Then on the interturn it is the defender that gets killed and not the elite. Also the attacker is usually damaged and the elite gets an easy kill.

I position my troops in such a way that I can get from one battlefield to another in one turn where possible, so elites can fight on consequetive turns. Sometimes that means not attacking from the tile with the highest defensive bonus.

In the end it all comes down to how many elite battles you can win per turn. How many elites can you build, how often can they fight, how advantageious can you make the odds of a victory?

In taking control of my landmass in this game I fought around 60 Elite battles, lost maybe four elite units and generated 4 leaders before Jesus was born. The numbers are approximate. I did keep count for a while, but got bored....

Better players may have better answers of course.

 

[BerzerkerJoe]

Thx mad-bax,
some good idvice here

 

[zagnut]

Originally posted by BerzerkerJoe
My question is - is there a stratagy to maximise the chance of a leader occuring?

Sometimes the random nature of this business does drive you crazy. I generally follow the advice of mad-bax, but in this game I have also generated no leaders.