el_kalkylus
Civ2 spearman
You people have really strange city placements. I will have more to study.
*SPOILER4* Gotm16-Rome - End Game Submitted
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Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Well, since Sanitation was only discovered 9 turns before the end of my game, a city placement for 11-12 tiles / city was pretty much optimal for me.
With that many cities I had almost the same culture as DaveMcW, except that mine was mostly from science improvements (with 8 luxuries I didn't need any religious buildings, just Marketplaces).
Of course my progress was cut short by an untimely launch.
With that many cities I had almost the same culture as DaveMcW, except that mine was mostly from science improvements (with 8 luxuries I didn't need any religious buildings, just Marketplaces).
Of course my progress was cut short by an untimely launch.
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
Building the Pyramids yourself was a great move, Ribannah. I've been capturing them or using leaders for so long that I'd forgotten how!
I gave up any hopes of conquest/space race after losing the Pyramids. It's simply too hard to compete with someone who has them.
I gave up any hopes of conquest/space race after losing the Pyramids. It's simply too hard to compete with someone who has them.
MadScot
Brandy's back!
Dave McW
Why do you say that about the pyramids? I never even built a single granary, nor the Pyramids, and won a Space Race, albeit perhaps by the skin of my teeth.
(Conquest I can maybe see, since you'll have lots of growing cities all game - but for a moderately peaceful space race/builder, the city growth tops out early enough in most cases. Thats how it seemed, anyway.)
Why do you say that about the pyramids? I never even built a single granary, nor the Pyramids, and won a Space Race, albeit perhaps by the skin of my teeth.
(Conquest I can maybe see, since you'll have lots of growing cities all game - but for a moderately peaceful space race/builder, the city growth tops out early enough in most cases. Thats how it seemed, anyway.)
MadScot
Brandy's back!
OK, I understand now, sorry.
edited to add some mildly interesting features
Unexpected palace Jump
As I had mentioend before, I had planned a Palace jump at some point, so intentionally named my first capital 'Etrusca' and never developed it. Finally, in 1505AD I had captured Kyoto and decided I should jump the capital to there, figuring it would maybe even flip some Japanese cities to me. The FP was in Rome, so I fugured I had little to lose.
So I settlered Etrusca to size 1, and added a settler or two to Kyoto to rush it to size 14 (and still growing). That left the situation as follows:
However, when I then 'abandoned' Etrusca I found the capital moved to Rome - only population 11, not even my 'most Roman' city. I had thought that the Palace jumped to the most populuous city, so I was rather disappointed - especially sine that put the Palace and FP in the same city!
I'd kept a save from before the jump, just for curiousity - I wanted to compare 'before' and 'after' since when I jumped in the previous GOTM I was pretty sure my production dropped (that was a Palace build, not an abandonment) but I didn't have the save to test it. Of course, I was stuck with Rome as my new capital....
I did not, in the end, move the Palace to Kyoto until 1735AD, when Hadrian appeared in the German border wars.....
In 1675Ad a force of about 7 panzers wandered into our territory, and declared war when ordered out. I massacred them with combined artillery and elite tanks. They had an MPP so I didn't want to attack them outside Roman territory, and anyway that would have meant walking through the US. So I hunkered down at the choke point with the US and waited.
For the next century the Germans (and the Americans too, from about 1756) sent stacks of 6-8 troops - usally veterans, usually panzers or marines from Germany, a mix of anything from spearmen to Mech Inf from the US. They marched past our fortified troops holding the rubber and the high ground, and defending our firebases hoilding some 20-40 artillery (red circles on map).
(In that picture we have a mech inf army in a clear square - it's guarding the force of workers who just cleared the jungle, to give us a better field of fire.)
In all I noted a total of 35 victories before Hadrian (we had an elite win during the war to eliminate Japan. so we had Heroic Epic throughout this period. I reckon maybe 20-30 elite wins during the Japan wars)
It took a further 40 or so before Maximus appeared; then Germanicus and Claudius each only took a further 5 wins.
All in all I had 5 leaders from about 100 elite wins, most, but not all, with the herioc epic. Perhaps the expected would be 7 or 8, but I'll not complain. I'd rather have them quickly at the start, though!
Finally, I had real problems controlling any cities near the southern mapedge - the city screen would not display properly:
Note that the city view is not of the city - it's as if the screen cannot scroll down to see the city. I guess firaxis never expected board edge to be in play. How does a vertically wrapped map cope, I wonder?
edited to add some mildly interesting features
Unexpected palace Jump
As I had mentioend before, I had planned a Palace jump at some point, so intentionally named my first capital 'Etrusca' and never developed it. Finally, in 1505AD I had captured Kyoto and decided I should jump the capital to there, figuring it would maybe even flip some Japanese cities to me. The FP was in Rome, so I fugured I had little to lose.
So I settlered Etrusca to size 1, and added a settler or two to Kyoto to rush it to size 14 (and still growing). That left the situation as follows:
However, when I then 'abandoned' Etrusca I found the capital moved to Rome - only population 11, not even my 'most Roman' city. I had thought that the Palace jumped to the most populuous city, so I was rather disappointed - especially sine that put the Palace and FP in the same city!
I'd kept a save from before the jump, just for curiousity - I wanted to compare 'before' and 'after' since when I jumped in the previous GOTM I was pretty sure my production dropped (that was a Palace build, not an abandonment) but I didn't have the save to test it. Of course, I was stuck with Rome as my new capital....
I did not, in the end, move the Palace to Kyoto until 1735AD, when Hadrian appeared in the German border wars.....
In 1675Ad a force of about 7 panzers wandered into our territory, and declared war when ordered out. I massacred them with combined artillery and elite tanks. They had an MPP so I didn't want to attack them outside Roman territory, and anyway that would have meant walking through the US. So I hunkered down at the choke point with the US and waited.
For the next century the Germans (and the Americans too, from about 1756) sent stacks of 6-8 troops - usally veterans, usually panzers or marines from Germany, a mix of anything from spearmen to Mech Inf from the US. They marched past our fortified troops holding the rubber and the high ground, and defending our firebases hoilding some 20-40 artillery (red circles on map).
(In that picture we have a mech inf army in a clear square - it's guarding the force of workers who just cleared the jungle, to give us a better field of fire.)
In all I noted a total of 35 victories before Hadrian (we had an elite win during the war to eliminate Japan. so we had Heroic Epic throughout this period. I reckon maybe 20-30 elite wins during the Japan wars)
It took a further 40 or so before Maximus appeared; then Germanicus and Claudius each only took a further 5 wins.
All in all I had 5 leaders from about 100 elite wins, most, but not all, with the herioc epic. Perhaps the expected would be 7 or 8, but I'll not complain. I'd rather have them quickly at the start, though!
Finally, I had real problems controlling any cities near the southern mapedge - the city screen would not display properly:
Note that the city view is not of the city - it's as if the screen cannot scroll down to see the city. I guess firaxis never expected board edge to be in play. How does a vertically wrapped map cope, I wonder?
I noticed the same thing, MadScot. The Americans insisted on sending a Warrior/Settler stack through my territory. I blocked them off from areas where I wanted to put a city. They ended up on the south edge of the Tundra Peninsula near the gems tile. When I eventually went to war with them, I captured the city. At the time it had 1 pop, which was set as an entertainer, so I didn't think about it. Later, once my workers had connected Denver to the rest of my luxuries, I tried to reassign the worker, but none of the city's tiles were displayed in the city display window!! I finally got that entertainer to work by invoking the city Governer, something I rarely do.
You can see in the graphs below an approximation of the culture graph for me and Dave. The first uses the normal scale while the second uses log scale to see the growth rate. According to Daves side comments I can see that the real difference was the timing of the Japanese invasion. While I have waited until my starting area was fully developed and only attacked the Japanese after 900 AD, he did that between 1000 BC and 10 AD. My early advantage was already over in 300 AD. I started to pick up between 1100AD and 1300 AD after the Japanese integration but lost pace in the 1300- 1600AD busy conquering the world. Of course I came back in force after 1600 but he had already won.
From the log scale you can see that the important step is from 1000 to 10,000. It took me 90 turns between 10 AD and 900 AD but there were only 55 turns for Dave from about 150 AD to 700AD.
Ill know better next time.
Edit: Ribbanah added (if you can see her line overlapping Dave's)
From the log scale you can see that the important step is from 1000 to 10,000. It took me 90 turns between 10 AD and 900 AD but there were only 55 turns for Dave from about 150 AD to 700AD.
Ill know better next time.
Edit: Ribbanah added (if you can see her line overlapping Dave's)
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Nice graphs, Yndy!
This is my culture progress:
1000 BC = 152
50 AD = 1,240
250 AD = 1,984
350 AD = 3,081 (start of Industrial Ages)
450 AD = 4,486
650 AD = 8,856
750 AD = 11,659
850 AD = 14,870 (Modern Times start in 870 AD)
950 AD = 18,972
1050 AD = 23,699
1150 AD = 29,001
1200 AD = 31,904 (end of game)
Fast research gave me early access to Universities, but at the time most cities were still working on Libraries and Marketplaces.
Universities only became plentiful in the Industrial Ages.
So having a lot of cities was probably making the difference.
MadScot, I only had 2 (two!) Great Leaders to show for well over a hundred elite victories. I used them to build the Hoover Dam and SETI.
This is my culture progress:
1000 BC = 152
50 AD = 1,240
250 AD = 1,984
350 AD = 3,081 (start of Industrial Ages)
450 AD = 4,486
650 AD = 8,856
750 AD = 11,659
850 AD = 14,870 (Modern Times start in 870 AD)
950 AD = 18,972
1050 AD = 23,699
1150 AD = 29,001
1200 AD = 31,904 (end of game)
Fast research gave me early access to Universities, but at the time most cities were still working on Libraries and Marketplaces.
Universities only became plentiful in the Industrial Ages.
So having a lot of cities was probably making the difference.
MadScot, I only had 2 (two!) Great Leaders to show for well over a hundred elite victories. I used them to build the Hoover Dam and SETI.
Originally posted by Ribannah
Nice graphs, Yndy!
This is my culture progress:
I estimated your culture for the similar dates but when I put that into the graph your culture overalps almost perfectly Dave's culture and you wouldn't notice your line anyway. I cannot believe that. Between 500AD and 1100AD the difference in culture between you is less than 2%. Good work.
Edit: Changed the graph above after all. Changed scale for log graph to get some focus there.
There is really nothing to it. Any square that couldn't produce more than 2 food (desert, tundra, and hill), I will build a city there. I also like to build city near the river too (saving me an extra gold each turn and shields for not building the aqueduct). That's it!
drewshark
Proud Father
Let me first say that although I really enjoyed this game of the month, I had a real hard time making all the moves necessary in the allotted time frame. I must be an over manager or one who doesn't know enough keyboard shortcuts, because this was not due to a lack of time played. Every turn took upwards of a half hour towards the end, and it was very frustrating for myself who is usually a builder type and not a domination or conquest player. Nevertheless, the game ended up being my best ever. I finished off the Americans and Germans soon after the first spoiler, running up my knights and remaining legionaries to the North along with a few settlers to prevent a culture flipping problem (though a few did go back and forth). Meanwhile, I was landing a few settlements on the barbarian land mass and milking a few huts with my knights. I had a large armada of caravel, and later, Galleons which later became a problem as I realized there was no way to get them to the Western ocean. I solved this problem by building "bridge" cities in the south where the boats could pass through. After finishing off the Germans, I had Magellan's and about 20 Galleons in the Western ocean ready to transport my many upgraded Cavalry (around 950ad)and musketeers to the other continent where I had a vendetta agains the Aztecs, who attacked me on the barbarian isle. I never really did have a problem with AI attitude beacause everyone hated me the whole way and eventually imposed emborgoes against me. However, I was so far ahead that it never affected me. I was gearing to finish the game as soon as possible and once I figured out how to ship across the ocean, the game was practically over. I started by wiping out the Aztecs and getting a few techs along the way. I went after the Greeks a bit too soon and had to get a peace treaty with only a city or two taken. At this point I had fully settled my island with only 2 Iroquois cities in the far south tundra that I wasn't worried about. I also had the middle of the 2nd continent and proceeded to wipe out the French rather quickly, filling in holes from razed cites by sending over numerous settlers and rushing temples. After shoring up the North I went after the Iroquois a bit and although it was getting tougher to beat the riflemen, my five armies made some headway and it was only a matter of the territory expanding from the temple culture. It was these last 25 turns that really took time. I was manually hopping units ship to ship and finally realized I would win by domination soon so I "spacebared" way more than I would have normally just to finish up and end the tedious work I had started. I had a good time dominating on emperor (my first emperor win) but I really like the builder approach better. Overall I was very pleased but really need to learn better ways to move groups of workers instead of manually moving and assigning each one. These workers put a railroad to the sea from all my cities allowing me to move newly made units to the other continent in one turn, a huge plus in taking out Babylon, France and the Aztecs. Below is a map picture one turn before the end of the game in 1410ad.
Attachments
MadScot
Brandy's back!
A couple of extra oddities I noted:
I fought one war against the japanese where I basically annihilated them in a few turns - we were capturing multiple cities per turn. Yet after about three turns I had rampant war weariness (in democracy) to the extent I needed to put all my cities onto governor managed happiness, and by the wars end - maybe 10-12 turns - most of my cities were starving.
I then fought my century-long war of border annihilation with Germany. I never had to touch the luxury slider, despite being at war for over 50 turns.
I know WW is complex, but I had formed the impression that successful war was good. Yet my people seemed to prefer a century of Verdun to a generation of blitzkrieg!
Also, the Verdun-style fighting got so stupid it was almost an exploit - I mean, the AI actually had far more navy than me, but was content to just shell some irrigation on the barb isle, rather than invading. And they came at me in nice bite sized packages, ideally suited for maximizing the elite wins. I only sued for peace to try to speed up the game - it took time to beat them up, but it was never in doubt.
I fought one war against the japanese where I basically annihilated them in a few turns - we were capturing multiple cities per turn. Yet after about three turns I had rampant war weariness (in democracy) to the extent I needed to put all my cities onto governor managed happiness, and by the wars end - maybe 10-12 turns - most of my cities were starving.
I then fought my century-long war of border annihilation with Germany. I never had to touch the luxury slider, despite being at war for over 50 turns.
I know WW is complex, but I had formed the impression that successful war was good. Yet my people seemed to prefer a century of Verdun to a generation of blitzkrieg!
Also, the Verdun-style fighting got so stupid it was almost an exploit - I mean, the AI actually had far more navy than me, but was content to just shell some irrigation on the barb isle, rather than invading. And they came at me in nice bite sized packages, ideally suited for maximizing the elite wins. I only sued for peace to try to speed up the game - it took time to beat them up, but it was never in doubt.
drewshark
Proud Father
Just one more thing. Which thread has the posts on the impi puzzle? I never saw any reference to the answer in the 4 threads or maybe I just missed them. Thanks
It was on the second page of this thread (*SPOILER4* Gotm16-Rome - End Game Submitted). I hope that may help.
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