*Spoiler4* - Gotm20-Spain - End Game Submitted

[Mark Cutt]

1) Ancient Age lot of fun. I like the QSC period when you can focus on micromanaging your cities and growing as fast as you can. I made one mistake, I built too few worker. The 2/3 more cities I was able to build did not compensate for the loss of productivity due to slow improvement of my territory. Again I was to QSC oriented.
Middle Age & Industrial Ages. I really felt the pressure of finishing asap. I built tons of Chivalry and I knew I had to finish the game before or immediately after Replaceable Parts has been discovered. I was not enough fast and the war with Japan (Chivalry against Infantry) was really painful .
2) No influence (at least not consciously)
3) I think I was luck with the suicide galley (my 3rd succeeded). I was on average with GLs (first in 210AD and second in 460AD). I felt unlucky during the Indian war, Their Musketeers and Riflemen killed tons of my strong Chivalry (including many Elite one). Overall I think the RNG was fair with me!
4) I used the UU as first move in a war. Almost every war I entered started with a Missionary cutting an enemy key resource (iron, saltpeter, rubber)

 

[Darkness]

I won!

[dance]

I just won my first ever deity game.....

OK, enough celebrating. Sorry about that....

I had a great (6-step) plan entering the modern age (in 1295 AD):

1- Research fission (up in 10 turns)
2- Start gifting money and techs to the Aztecs, Iroquois, Japanese and French (I wanted the Zulu to be my opponent in the vote)
3- Get MPP's with the Aztecs, Iroquois, Japanese and French
4- Give the ZUlu enough cities, so they'll overtake the Iroquois and become #2 in population and thus my opponent in the vote
5- Declare war on the Zulu and move units into his territory, so he'll attack them and trigger my MPP's getting him at war with the world
6- Build the UN and win the voting...

Steps 3-6 were all planned in the same turn...

Well I executed my plan and got fission in 1345 AD and switched from my pre-build to the UN in 1350 (1 turn remaining), so the vote would come up the next turn...

Hoping for the best I pressed enter to end my turn at around 2 o'clock in the morning....
Instants later I sat rigid in my chair, groaning in frustration. I had forgotten step 3 of my brilliant plan.

No MPP's, so Shaka would not be at war with anyone but me...
I could do nothing so I just crossed my fingers and hoped. The vote came up and the results:
Spain - 4 votes (Spain, Iroquois, Japan and Aztecs)
Zulu - 1 vote (Zulu)
Abstain - 1 (French)

My first deity win! But I lucked out pretty big...

In-game score: 8823
Jason score: 8609
Probably pretty low compared to you guys, but I'll take a win at deity level with any score, no matter how low...

Moral of this story: Don't play late at night, just to finish the game before you go to sleep. You'll get sloppy and make mistakes and you'll be very tired when you get to work in the morning....

All in all it was a very satisfying game...
Thanks cracker and staff...

 

[Elandra]

This game kept me on the edge of my seat ALL FREAKIN MONTH LONG! It was unbelievably thrilling. I ultimately raced the Ottomans for a space ship...and won by a hair.[dance]

The basics:
- The game setup was well-suited to my style of play (pacifist space race).
- The conquest bonuses were make-or-break. The chests explored for decades. They revealed my NW coast, the southern jungle/dyes, and good city sites. And one of them made contact with the English. (who knew a treasure chest could talk?! )
- The start land was GREAT. Initial land grab and resource density is crucial when pacifist.
- Suicide galleys work! I discovered the new world first, after 6-10 attempts (lost count after a while)
- The tech race was agonizingly touch-and-go. I nearly gave up in the middle ages. But thank goodness people like Moonsinger and SirPleb have talked about Printing Press and ToE slingshot on these forums. After PP, I brokered techs successfully to bankrupt my rivals. ToE and SETI allowed me to beat the Ottomans to Laser and the final spaceship component.
- The other civs were nearly always at war in dizzying combinations. I avoided alliances and paid all tribute requests. (prudent or whimpy?).
- Lots of culture flips, some for me, some against. Flips caused resource interruption a lot. Good trade relations were always crucial.
- Scariest moments: England declares war (tanks against mobile defenders...yeah, right.), and later Ottomans build UN (never called a vote, though)
- Angriest moment: Keltoi, India, and Japan joined the English alliance. (Arggh!)
- Jaw-dropping moment: finishing the Laser research before anyone else, with 9/10 ship components.

To answer crackers questions:
1) How did you feel in each age:
Ancient age: curious, nervous, outgunned, yet encouraged by the good land. Middle Ages: outpaced, tiny, and exposed until started tech catch-up. Industrial Ages: losing ground overall, unprepared for an unprovoked war, grateful to survive, actually helped me (golden age plus 1 city). Modern Age: edge of my seat, edge of the envelope, pulled an all nighter.

2) didn't play GOTM18.

3) RNG effect on game:
Initial exploration seemed normal, some angry warriors and gold, nothing remarkably bad or good. At the end of the game, the Ottomans never called a UN vote, don't know if this is RNG or if they were preset for space race.

4) UU.....not really applicable to a pacifist. but i was glad to have UU units available late in the game to trigger GA when I was attacked.

This was a lot of fun!
Happy gaming!
Elandra!

 

[Bremp]

Civ3 v1.29

I tried a lot of new things to me in this game. I slowed the tech pace of the AI, accelerated my own research, conquered the continent and got a Diplomatic victory.
I outresearched the AI still in BC times and I got Military Tradition in 280AD. If I had stoped researching at that point I'm sure I could get a conquest or domination victory before 1000AD for sure. I conquered the continent in 700AD and then I started to disband my units. Now, I'm a little dissapointed that the diplomatic best date was the earliest. It's difficult to beat that date if I'm researching alone. I was one entire tech table ahead of the AI in the end. I only got a few techs from the AI: Feudalism, Monotheism (free tech of the Ottomans), Theology, Education, Astronomy, Music Theory, Economics, Printing Press and Democracy. I entered the Industrial age in 530AD during my golden age (490-690AD) and I made a palace jump in 700AD with my second leader. The first I used to rush Smith's and the third I saved for the UN. Japan and Aztecs entered the Industrial Ages in 740AD. After 19 turns Japan researched Nationalism and it takes more 13 turns to them to research Democracy. In 1060AD I trade for Democracy and gift it to all the other AI, but nobody changed government. In 1160AD I researched Motorized Transportation and finished ToE, and I got Radio and Fission for free. Bartolome (my third leader) rushed the UN. In this turn this was the situation:
Japan: cautious
America: annoyed
Iroquois: annoyed
ottomans: annoyed
Aztecs: annoyed
I was not sure about my opponent in the UN vote (it was between Japan and Iroquois). Japan was at war with America and Iroquois was at war with Aztecs.
I trade for Nationalism with Japan and gift it to America and Iroquois. Both become polite. I gifted some techs to Japan, but they staied Cautious. I gifted techs to the backwards Ottomans, but they staied annoyed, so I signed MPP with them and they become Polite. Aztecs only had one city in that small island. I didn't signed MPP with them because I didn't know if the Iroquois had some units there. I didn't wanted a war with the Iroquois
Next turn I won. My opponent was Japan. Aztecs abstained, but Ottomans, America and Iroquois voted for me, resulting in a Diplomatic victory.
Date: 1170AD
Firaxis score: 12019
Jason Score: 10656

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by Bremp

I outresearched the AI still in BC times

How on earth did you do that? I was still only keeping an even pace with France in the beginning of the modern age.....

 

[Bremp]

Originally posted by Darkness
How on earth did you do that? I was still only keeping an even pace with France in the beginning of the modern age.....

After 1000BC I researched Monarchy. I was the first to get it and I trade for Republic and Monotheism. I immediately gift Republic to all the AI (only Ottomans and India had it) and started to trade military alliances.
After this you can imagine what happened
I also bankrupted them hard. I was producing almost 400 beakers in 10AD and I was able to make +600 gold per turn (IIRC) with the luxury and the science slider at 0%.

 

[Darkness]

Ah, thanks....

 

[Xevious]

So much for fastest diplo win this month. Going to have to try harder.

Great job Bremp! You beat my diplo win by 50 years. I really need to learn to stop being so nice and take some neighboring civs territory for a change.

 

[drewshark]

Fantastic job bremp. One of the key things I am trying to improve is the choice of early research and at what rate. If you pick the right tech to pursue and get it before anyone else, especially at Deity level, you can bankrupt the world at your own benefit. All too often, I end up a turn or two from the wrong scientific advance and end up either having to pay for it or wait an extra turn or two, which by that time, everyone else has paid or already traded for it. I guess there are certain trends that certain characteristic Civs research, but I have yet to figure that out beyond the militaristic ones.

 

[denyd]

Finished late last night (or was that early this morning).

Not much to add since the last spoiler post in 1325AD.

I managed to use artillery, cavalry and the recently discovered tank to take Izmit & Hlobane from the Zulu. I buy fission from America 3 turns before I'm due to discover it (damn AI bonus) and on schedule complete the UN in 1375AD. Since I've got MA's with everyone but the Zulu, who are in second place, this should be a cakewalk. I still gift some science, luxs & cash to everyone.

Time for the Vote and I'm surprised to find I'm against Abe not Shaka. Well, no time for any other victory condition, so here goes. I vote for me and so does 5 others. Abe for Abe and Shaka abstains. Victory for Spain 6-1-1 and my first ever Diety win!!

Final score 8284 points in 1375 AD victory by diplomacy (Jason score about 8K also)

To respond to Crackers points:
1. I was determined to get as much land as possible in the AA, and thanks to the favorable layout, I was able to get quite a few (15+ cities), and thanks to Moonsinger's trading thread I was able to keep up the the AI throughout this age. In the MA, I took a French city with the Great Library and that kept be close to the AI throughout the period. When the Ottoman got removed (after I took out the French) I felt I would be able to survive the game. When I was first to the New World and saw they were behind on tech, I felt I'd be able to compete til the end. In the Industrial Age using SirPleib tips, I got ahead on tech with the TOE slingshot and thought I might be able to win. The Zulu were still very large in size and might, but the tech war was even. I was very aware of my reputation, thanks to Satchel for the tips on diplomacy victory (suggested by SirPleib as the most doable). At the end of the IA, I was pretty sure I could win. The mild tech lead, the big bank account and the solid infantry/artillery/city defenses, would sustain me vs a long Zulu assault. The MA was brief, thanks to a UN pre-build and once I was even with the Zulu on military and tanks had arrived, I war became an offensive one and then it was just a race to the UN and I had the head start.

2) I got a very late start on GOTM 18 and due to fast play found myself in a time crunch induced deep hole and the month ended before I got a chance to lose. I did use that as an incentive to grab as much land as possible in the early expansion phase.

3) After having read the other spoilers, I think I probably got more bad than good RNG. I lost 7 galleys before #8 made it. I got only 1 GL despite 30+ elite victories. I spent most of the Ottoman war fighting with Elite cavalry & med inf and never got a GL. I do feel a little lucky on tech selections. I got to 3-4 techs on the pre TOE tree that could have gone to the AI. That's some luck and some help from SirPleib & a couple of War Academy authors in pointing me the right direction.

4) The Spanish UU is very weak in combat and must be spotted against obsolete and/weakened units. The timing of the unit is great as the advanced government and developed infrastructure give a large production boost. As a pillager, pretty good, but it's normally a one way trip (kamikaze). A very expensive cruise missle for terrain improvements.

As a conclusion to GOTM 20, I'd like to thank Cracker for a very enjoyable game, SirPleib, Moonsinger and many others for tips and ideas on improving my game. I'd also like to thank my wife for putting up with my seemingly constant play for the last week.

See you all in the Med for a little Melee!!



[EDIT] I just reviewed by goals for GOTM 20 and 3 for 3 !!!

Goal #1 to survive until one of the AI's win. (I won)

Goal #2 not be in last on the points list (I was first)

Goal #3 be in the same age as the winner (In modern age)

 

[jeffelammar]

Originally posted by Melifluous
***PTW 1.21 Conquest Class***
The turn before the UN vote, the Zulu nuked my capital city.
All other civs declared war on them and the next turn the Vote came up.

Me or Shaka!

I win
...
Melifluous

Wow- That is by far the coolest win I have ever seen in Civ3. All I can say is "Never Give Up. Never Surrender"

Originally posted by ChrTh
Man, I pull off the impossible (Deity win without fighting)...and I get overshadowed by Meli's brink-of-death victory!

I have to say that I happened to read your post before Melifluous's, and was going to comment on your win, but got completely distracted by his post. No wars at all is absolutely incredible. How did you manage to avoid at least one blitz by the super agressive Zulu?

 

[alamo]

Late submission - 29.5 hours - whew! SS loss.

It occured to me in the final turns that I will always loose diety because I refuse to build factories/coal plants (I do not want to spend my life managing workers).

I really wish the expansion would address some of the gameplay issues.

 

[Melifluous]

Originally posted by jeffelammar

Wow- That is by far the coolest win I have ever seen in Civ3. All I can say is "Never Give Up. Never Surrender"

Thanks man...

This was my first GOTM submission and my first Deity win (albeit at conquest but WTH)

It was my only feasible way to win this one, and the stupid Zulu built the UN on my border (musta been rushed with a leader too)

This particular game brought me more joy than any other Civ game in a looooong time.

Kudos to cracker and the GOTM team once again...

Melifluous

PS. Can't wait for the next one

 

[ChrTh]

My answers to cracker's questions:

1) Try to step back and view the big picture of the game and tell us how you "felt" while playing in each of the 3 or four ages of your game.

Ancient Age: Exasperated...I was so far behind in Tech I thought I thought there was a bug in the game ... but I kept going, just so I could submit something

Middle Age: Feeling a little bit better...still behind, but my cities were expanding nicely, and I could feel like I might have a chance of surviving, unless someone attacked me in which case I was doomed (despite efforts to maintain a good defense)

Industrial Age: I was getting close to par, and I was able to get a few techs before the AI...but I lost TOE by 4 turns and Hoover Dam by 1 turn...and the latter was my fault for trading Electronics. While it cost me Hoover Dam, it did give me full parity with the AI for the rest of the age.
At this point my goal was the UN; having fought no wars, I figured that if I got the UN, a vote for me would be a sure thing. Normally, I don't like Diplo victories, but considering my start, I would've been glad to take it.

Modern Age: Fission came on board with the Age, so I was handicapped with getting the UN (despite my prebuild)...and ending up not getting it. The only option really left was Space Race, and then I realized: I could do it. I was starting to pull ahead on Tech, and my core group of cities were able to build parts in less than 10 turns, sometimes without prebuild. Japan and India and Otto (a latecomer to the race) were my main adversaries in the race, but Japan, due to war apparently, never built a single piece. I'm unsure how far India got, because I was unable to plant a Spy in Delhi, but they were several techs behind me at the end.
From the Fission to the end I couldn't do anything but play. The suspense was killing me, and when I finally won, it was such a wonderful relief. This was an awesome game and I glad I played it.

2) If you played in Gotm18-Celts as well, how did the layout of that map influence your play in this game as you began to reveal what your continent looked like?

Didn't play GOTM18

3) Deity level games can be highly dependent on the outcomes of early Random Number Generator (RNG) events. Try to look back at your game compared to other games you have seen reported and pick out two or three significant differences where you think the RNG impact may have helped (or hurt) to shape your game.

Since I never fought any battles, I never relied on the RNG! It probably prevented me from getting UN first (since Fission was a gimme at the beginning of the Modern Age to Japan), but that's really the only effect I saw from it.

4) Having played this game, do you feel that the UU of the Conquistador is implemented to provide a balanced and exciting UU play opportunity with the Spanish civ?

Never even built one ... hrm, the questions are aimed at warmongers, huh?

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by jeffelammar

I have to say that I happened to read your post before Melifluous's, and was going to comment on your win, but got completely distracted by his post. No wars at all is absolutely incredible. How did you manage to avoid at least one blitz by the super agressive Zulu?

They never got near me (except to send troops/settlers through my territory); in fact, they were eliminated in my game at some point in the Modern Age. A couple times Shaka made demands, and I gave into them, mostly because my defense at that particular point was shaky, but they were never serious. I think the RNG was largely unkind to Shaka in my game.

One of the fun things at the end was whenever a neighboring city was taken in battle, my borders would immediately expand except for the immediately surrounding spaces ... since the cities in the north of my territory changed hands several times, that helped my score.

 

[DaveMcW]

1.21

Part 1: 4000BC-1000BC

My core city build order was:
Temple
Barracks
Warriors
Library
Horsemen
Marketplace
Horsemen

1200BC: Ottomans discover Feudalism
1200BC: Start research on Engineering with 1 scientist
410BC: 6th suicide galley reaches new world, broker Monarchy for Feudalism+Republic
390BC: Become a republic
310BC: Engineering
310BC: Start research on Invention at 100% science
150BC: Invention
30BC: Gunpowder
90AD: Chemistry
210AD: Metallurgy
280AD: Military Tradition

I sold the techs up to Gunpowder to the new world, to speed up their research of Navigation. But I gave the old world nothing, and as a result they only had pikemen to defend from my cavalry.

710BC-270BC: Conquer France with 29 upgraded swordmen
430BC: Palace jump to Orleans
270BC-10AD: Conquer the Ottoman lands with 14 upgraded medieval infantry

Zululand had a nasty med inf army, but they were busy invading India when I attacked their Ottoman holdings. I was able to capture Sogut (Pyramids) and sue for peace before the Zulu counterattack arrived.

130BC: Great Leader builds Leonardo's Workshop
110BC: Great Leader builds Sun Tzu
30AD-300AD: Conquer England with 18 knights
310AD-430AD: Conquer Celts with 30 cavalry
380AD: Great Leader builds Sistine Chapel

With the newly captured Colossus of York, this triggered my golden age. I disconnected all my iron and saltpeter, allowing me to build 10 horsemen per turn. Every few turns I would connect the saltpeter and upgrade them to cavalry.

The new world discovered Astronomy in 360AD. I immediately dogpiled on America to weaken them for my invasion and slow the tech rate down.

400AD: Education and Astronomy from the Great Library of Entremont
420AD-500AD: Conquer Zululand
470AD-500AD: Conquer India
470AD: Navigation
480AD: Great Leader builds Magellan's Voyage
490AD-510AD: Conquer America
520AD-580AD: Conquer Aztecs
570AD-610AD: Conquer Japan
590AD-640AD: Conquer Iroquois

Finished with a conquest victory in 650AD, Firaxis score 12079.

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
Finished with a conquest victory in 650AD, Firaxis score 12079.

I don't know why we even bother to play with you. I think cracker ought to design a special class for you and give you one worker to start on a three tile island in the middle of the ocean. I bet you'll still win 40 turns earlier than me. /jk.

Seriously, it's a fantastic game. You seem to be doing three things at a time: build army, research and conquer. I can only do them one by one.

240 Cavalry. No wonder you took a civ every 3 turns. Could you tell me the size of your armies before attacking each nation?

I take it you started with 18 Knights against England in 30 AD and you ended up with 240 Cavalries in 650AD. For 55 turns I get an average of over 4 cavalries per turn not considering any losses.

 

[Darkness]

@DaveMcW: Wow....

After reading your report (and Bremp's) I think I see another area in my game with a vast need for improvement. You both managed to push around the AI and have them involved in a war to slow their tech rates, so they wouldn't have very good defensive units and you get a tech lead. Any good pointers on how to do that?

As to crackers questions:
1
Ancient age: Saw the start and felt very confident I could get quite a nice bit of the world, then saw the AI expansion rate and dug in for a hard fight.
Middle age: Very difficult. Had some small (and bigger wars) but managed to hold my own because of relentlessly bribing the Zulu to join my crusades instead of opposing them...
Industrial age: First fighting with the Zulu, a very painfull experience as I don't like loosing 30 cavalry (or something like that) in one turn. Later, racing for the techlead with France and not willing to believe France can keep up with me as I am more than twice France's size and I have universities in all my productive cities....
Modern age: Confident. I've got my six-step plan after all...


2
I played GOTM 18 as well and I learned there to go on the offensive early. I also tried to do this in GOTM20, with mixed results. I got some AI cities and managed to create some choke-points (near Celts/England) but was not able to fully conquer any of the AI's...

3
Overall I feel the RNG dealt with me somewhat favourable. I had my second/third? suicide galley survive to the new world in 150 BC, which was nice and the Leader I got in 310 BC for rushing my FP in a conquered Celtish city were nice. As well as my second leader in the Indust. age for theory of evolution was nice. But I also felt I lost far more battles than in previous games, like loosing 30 cavalry in one turn (yes, I'm still traumatized by that )

4
The UU (I built only 2 of them) was in my game only useful to trigger my GA. I never tried pillaging some resources with them 'cause I felt they would never reach their destination as the Zulu had very good border defense. Not one of the better UU's, IMHO...

 

[AlanH]

I'd beaten Japan to the UN shortly after reaching the Modern Age, in order to avoid a diplomatic defeat at that point, as everyone was hacked off at me.

In order to try to meet the deadline I decided to try for a quick diplomatic victory. I had all my ducks in a row, it was 04:30 am UK time and the submission deadline was fast approaching. The UN vote option came up .... and it was inconclusive

I was soooo tired and angry I didn't even count the votes myself, I just knew I had no time to play to any other conclusion, and fell into bed. This morning I woke up again and couldn't understand how I had failed. I reloaded the save and re-ran the vote. Here is what I saw:

By my count I won. So what do I do now?

 

[Darkness]

You need more than half the votes to win the election. You only have 2/5 votes, so that's 40%. So, I'm sorry to say you didn't win... You get another shot in 11 turns...