SQ1: Google Earth

Tone said:
My intial thought on city placement is that the red dot south of our capital can afford to be a bit closer to Menlo Park as Googleplex and Menlo already have plenty of tiles already. This would enable new city 1 to access several non-jungle tiles and I think that we're going to need a few more good cities before we try to clear jungle.

Good point. I think I got a bit carried away with figuring out how RCP works.

After reading your comments, I'd suggest something like this:

dotmap2190bc8sn.png


Although my placement is still somewhat RCP-motivated, since the new locations have further rank than Menlo Park and Mountain View, the new location would give access to all three of the cows (shared with Menlo) and also grab a few more tiles.

Typically I also avoid building a city on top of furs, as they are the only luxury resource with a shield bonus, but it does provide the advantage that the AI won't be able to disconnect it so easily, especially if we get a harbor built in that city. So I guess that could work too.

Might also want to send a unit onto that plains tile in the far north, since I had neglected to put a scout there in the early exploration. What if there's an island, or fish or whales out there? Although judging by the tiny little edge of the tile, it's probably just going to be coast -> sea -> ocean.

Tone said:
Next thing: how are we going to deal with those MMs? We cannot expand if we cannot develop those tiles so we must get rid of them. I must admit that I'm tempted to buy an offensive unit tech from AOL. Alternatives could be (i) getting a rax and pumping out vet warriors or (ii) getting sufficient spears so that we can connect our horses. Both of these mean that we can try to make contact with a possible fourth civ (there normally is four on each continent in vanilla, right?) which will bring the tech price down. The latter option will involve an early GA, which I'd rather avoid if possible, so my first choice is to buy WC with getting stacks of warriors as my second choice. Of course, someone else may have a much better plan.

Yeah, that's why I wasn't too annoyed when the AI pillaged the horses tile--didn't want the early GA anyway. Microsoft will have 14 more turns of despotic GA to go, although Redmond has gotten up to size 5 and could be making a settler.

On continents, standard size, typically there are 4 civs per continent, though I've been alone or up against a single other rival on an island at times. I would have explored a bit further to the southwest if it weren't for the barbs :cry: Although if there was a civ out in that direction, they probably ought to have found us by now...

Which tech should we try to buy if we want one? AOL is willing to accept 90 gold for warrior code. Iron working will cost us 110g + 4gpt :eek: and if we don't have iron (chances are slim, since only 2 hills are within our borders) it would be useless anyway.
 
OK while doing my pre-flight checks I've noticed another bug (possibly to do with the mac port) and that is taht the game quits whenever I hit F4, or click on the foregin advisors icon in the advisors list.

Neway onto my pre-flight check

Cities look good (although at this stage its hard for them to be bad ;))
Defensively things look alright, I must admit I've never played a DAW so I wouldnt know what the front should really look like. An encouraging point is that Microsoft for all their super traits, and for all of their advantages, have only 2 cities inc. their capital! They must have really dodgy lands!

'ere we go, 'ere we go, 'ere we go, dunno where till we get there!

IBT - Mindless minions move toward Googleplex, Googleplex completes a spear, really wish we had some archers...

Turn 1 - and so on that note I start buy purchasing warrior code for 90gold. Menlo park has grown to size 4 so I up the lux tax to 20% to prevent a riot. Our worker starts mining the BG by Mountain View and a spear from Googleplex moves to cover our 2 exposed workers. Switch Menlo Park to archer due in 1.

IBT - Mindless minions head toward Mountain View.

Turn 2 - move our worker covering spear toward Mountain view (will get there just before the MM's arrive. Move our warrior on the irrigated cow to Googleplex, move the warrior already in googleplex to the two workers who have moved to work a bg in Mountain View's range.

IBT - MM move to the forest by Mountain View.

Turn 3 - move our spear into Mountain View. Have an archer headed toward the MM's.

IBT - 1 MM moves 1 tile off the forest, the other moves onto our road (no mine tho) and pillages. Still it was better than losing a city.

Turn 4 - 2 archers into attacking positions next turn so this turn I just fortify a few dudes and hunker down for the interturn.

IBT - MM pillage one of our mined and roaded BG's :(.

Turn 5 - Googleplex: Archer --> rax, Menlo Park: Worker --> Rax, Mountain View: Warrior --> Worker. A reg archer kills a MM and is yellowlined, and then despite attacking across a river our other archer has exactly the same result (was also a reg archer, we have no raxs I should note). And we are rid of Microsoft's evil influence in our land!

IBT - nothing.

Turn 6 - just some moving around nothing of any interest.

IBT - the 'softies call us up and ask for peace. Pfft yeh right! I'm an apple man through and through! Also interesting to note that MS still only have 2 cities inc. capital. Perhaps they had an early war with AOL? A MS scout moves within range of our con warrior returning from the south.

Turn 7 - Capture the MS scout. zzzz

IBT - barb horses show up. Dang.

Turn 8 - zzzz

IBT - barb horse suicides againstour spear at Menlo Park. AOL establish and embassy with us (:jump: woohoo! Freebie!).

Turn 9 - Everything we have cant buy a MA with AOL against MS. Dang. Our scout spots a MS settle pair. Switch Menlo park to settler. Due in 6.

IBT - another Barb horse shows up.

Turn 10 - meh, nothing of any interest.

Ok there we are. Couldnt' find whether I was meant to play 10 turns or 20 so I've stopped here. if I'm meant to play 20 I'll just do the other 10 if not then the save is already passed on :)

Some thoughts.

Mountain view is working a roaded and mined bg (switched it this turn so no it hasnt been sitting on a worker build waiting for growth). We can change the worker build there if we want as the worker to the north will finish roading that mined bg and as Mountain View grows in the interturn with the road finishing it could be working 2 roaded and mined bg's if we want it to giving it 5 shields (i think losing 1 to corruption), OTOH I love workers so the extra worker would ceratinly not do us any harm. We need to try and mine the cows around Menlo Park soon to up its production to match its growth. rax in Googleplex finishes in 2, suggest either spear --> settler, or settler --> spear. The spear first could be used to cover the settler coming out of Menlo (if you dont change the build that is) and have it settle the dot 1tile S of the unclaimed cow.
MS so far has been very quiet for a deity AI, don't expect it to last. We need more archers as ATM we have 2 reg archers (regs because I wanted to get rid of those MM and didn't have the time for raxs, luckily they both won their fights). Bit dissapointed not to have got to settle any new towns but my settling order would be the dot south of the cow, the dot on the hill 3SW, 1 W of Googleplex then the fur townm but thats just me. I'd rather get 2 settlers out of Googleplex before we get a granary too, normally I'd go for the granary after the first settler but in this case, with so much jungle, I think if we pop the settlers quickly we are better off so we can use the non-jungle tiles as quickly as we can. Like I said though, thats just me.

Good luck Andronicus!

The save
 

Attachments

Looking good so far. Cheers for the AOL embassy, saves a nice bunch of gold for us :)

We're actually ahead of Bill Gates by 1 point in score :woohoo:

I did intend the early turnsets to be 20 turns, dropping them down to 10 turns by the industrial age. Andronicus, if you have downloaded the save already and started playing, go ahead and just post a message to let us know that you're doing so. Otherwise tupac can feel free to go on.

I guess between the two of you, whoever is first to post an "I got it" response will continue the game.

As far as bugs are concerned, I'd imagine the problems are probably still being caused by some "faulty" pcx files, or maybe just a strange way that the mac port reads them. I'll see if I can go through them and spot any potential pitfalls, and if I do fix them, I'll post an updated version of them.

EDIT: FYI, since you couldn't see the Foreign Advisor screen, I opened it up, and it says that AOL has RoP with Microsoft. I think we might need to do something to prevent them from getting so warm and cuddly with each other...
 
Oh, another quick question for Tupac - could you possibly open up the civilopedia and check if reading the articles on the different civs ("tribes" I believe they are called) will also crash the game? How about pressing F7 and checking which wonders are currently in progress?

These would help me narrow down where the problem might be.
 
Oh ok well in that case, got it :)

And sure thing about the Civpedia. Actually just changed computers back to my main one so I'll have to reinstall the mod. Maybe it'll turn out that its just the computer I'm on...
 
I'm happy to let Tupac complete his 20 turns

I would support the town site in Tone's dotmap for 1st ring as this site will likely be a strong city so keeping it RCP4 is quite an advantage (rank 1 v rank 6 or 7). I would also consider placing a 2nd ring RCP7 town on north edge of lake to take advantage of the fresh water.

Good move on buying WC :goodjob:

Menlo Park should be readied as 4 turn SF. I recommend 1 settler first to ensure it can use 3rd cow, then granary and let it rip out settlers

I fully support more workers, although another couple of archers will help security
 
Ok same problem on a different computer so its clearly a problem with the mac port. No problems with the civpedia though. Nor wonders, actually somethign interesting to note is that Redmond is building the oracle which explains why MS have been so quiet.

Pre-turn: Woah things look spectacularly good, the last player must be brilliant! :p

Everything is how I left it ;) so I just hit enter.

IBT - A barb horse redlines our spear in googleplex but dies nonetheless.

Turn 1 (11) - just worker moves, trying to get everything connected.

IBT - MS founds a new town 'Windows' which interferes with the planned city 1 S of the unclaimed cow.

Turn 2 (12) - Googleplex: Rax --> Archer (with settler after, total of 7 turns and growth in 7 so the settler will complete with growth, thats good MM and I didn't even mean it :D). meh, nothing.

IBT - zzzz

Turn 3 (13) - zzzz

IBT - Redmond (MS) finish the Oracle. Now we'll start to see them do something.

Turn 4 (14) - Menlo Park: Settler --> Granary. I realise I've been talking about a city S of the cow, I meant SW. Woops :blush:. Decide to have our con warrior do a little pillaging round Redmond. Settler heads for the SW-of-cow site.

IBT - ok that pillaging wont happen. We lose the con warrior to a swordsman. Oh dear, they may only have 3 cities but they have iron.

Turn 5 (15) - Googleplex: Archer --> Settler (due in 4, growth in 4)
I'd sent our 2 reg archers to the site of MS's new city and this turn they attack, its defended by 1 MM and we lose an archer to take it out. Raze Windows and 'liberate' 7 gold.

IBT - some barb horses and the like... meh nothing interesting.

Turn 6 (16) - Just moving guys around, our stacked workers can finish mining the previously pillaged BG in 2, that was about the most interesting thing in the turn.

IBT - our other reg archer is redlined against a barb horse.

Turn 7 (17) - Worker moves...

IBT - Barb horses...

Turn 8 (18)- Found Web Search. Income jumps to +12gpt. The investors would be pleased :D. MM so that Menlo Park has all 3 cows.

IBT - lose a scout to a barb horse.

Turn 9 (19) - Googleplex: Settler --> Web Crawler (not sure about this, because of the GA, but its the same attack and shield cost as an archer, with an extra mp, of course we cant really use it in the jungle though... still might be nice for policing our land).

Turn 10 (20) - yeh just moving some dudes around

Post turn - ok we have a settler headed 3sw, 1 w of Googleplex, although it needs a garrison. Menlo Park is working on a granary but due to a lack of shields prob wont finish till its nearly size 6... we might want to run workers from it to get the pop down in it once that happens. The other cities can all make 5spt for 2-turn warriors or 4-turn archers/webcrawlers/spears, while Googleplex can easily make 10spt for 2-turn archers/webcrawlers/spears. I would suggest mining the irrigated cow at Googleplex once all other cows and BG's have been worked as Googleplex doesnt really need it irrigated, I feel it would be better off with it mined for the shields and just build settlers everynow and then to keep happiness under control. Other then Menlo Park all other cities are on raxes and I think we need them pumping military with workers to keep the pop under control. Thanks to razing windows MS still only has 2 cities, and when you remember that they started with 2 settlers... well... they're not doing real flash! However they have swords and thats a worry.

Oh well good luck Andronicus and good luck!

Our non-evil, profitable empire!

picture330zi.jpg

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The save
 

Attachments

Great work with destroying Windows! I think the web crawler would be good for escorting the settler out west, since a UU win against barbs should not trigger a GA, and I doubt the new city over there would be a prime target for Bill Gates either.

My suggestion for the second ring, sort of bringing together comments from Tone and Andronicus:
dotmap1550bc9dg.png


The two outer cities (far west and far east) are 6 orthogonal ("straight") tiles + 1 diagonal tile from the capital, while the two inner cities (around Web Search) are 3 orthogonal + 3 diagonal. Both should add up to distance 7.5 (1 unit for each orthogonal and 1.5 for each diagonal).

Please correct me if I'm wrong. (I'm kind of new to this RCP thing, never really used it much because most of my other games have been easier than this.)
 
The dotmap looks good, after the hill where the settler is headed now (to complete our first ring) I would go for the fur town SE of Menlo Park as it would be easier to connect then the silks in the jungle.
 
@ SQ - your RCPs are correct

There are many ways to skin a cat but FWIW in SP I would have built 2 more southern 1st ring towns - 1NE of Web Search and 1S of current settler pos (to take advantage of rivers) in place of Web Search. Current arrangement is certainly less crowded and since only requires 1 duct may well be best.

Q. what direction are the softies coming from?

I agree next town should be on furs

Do we want another 1st ring town 3N of Googleplex? - it only uses 1 land tile (plains) not avail to Mountain View, although until MV grows above size 6 there will certainly be spare tiles to utilise, after that a harbour should ensure this town good commerce in the future. My feeling is this can wait at present

Research - writing comes in next turn. What does / doesnt IOL have?
MM to make contacts appears a priority, although should be able to rely on AI reseaching.
Maths for cats (although jungle restricts them to our developed area) and progressing to our govt type (presumably monarchy given AW v MS) would be my priorities.
It would be nice to delay GA until out of despotism, but our UU may be of limited value by then.
If MS were strong I feel a case could be made for early despotic GA, however given their slow expansion we should be able to survive and gain more fom later GA
 
Since you're next I'll take your last post as a "Got it."

Andronicus said:
Q. what direction are the softies coming from?

For me they've mostly been coming from S and SE of Menlo. Tupac probably experienced the same.

Andronicus said:
Do we want another 1st ring town 3N of Googleplex? - it only uses 1 land tile (plains) not avail to Mountain View, although until MV grows above size 6 there will certainly be spare tiles to utilise, after that a harbour should ensure this town good commerce in the future. My feeling is this can wait at present

Yeah I also think that will be kind of cramped. Could be a possible location for a safe city when we need more unit support. For now, let's go for the luxes first.

Andronicus said:
Research - writing comes in next turn. What does / doesnt IOL have?
MM to make contacts appears a priority, although should be able to rely on AI reseaching.
Maths for cats (although jungle restricts them to our developed area) and progressing to our govt type (presumably monarchy given AW v MS) would be my priorities.

A quick look at the save showed me a little bit of this. Don't know what they have in the writing subtree, but they do have masonry, iron working, horseback riding, mysticism, and writing (of course). For all I know they could've gone all the way up to monarchy and construction, but I highly doubt the AI works like that.

Andronicus said:
It would be nice to delay GA until out of despotism, but our UU may be of limited value by then.
If MS were strong I feel a case could be made for early despotic GA, however given their slow expansion we should be able to survive and gain more fom later GA

I think we can reasonably expect to get a UU victory later on, since the WC can withdraw (better chances if vet or elite, I'm told) and I'm looking forward to cat/cannon/arty stacks to knock AI units down to red. Otherwise, there's also the hope we can pull off a wonder somewhere :mischief:


Oh, and completely off topic, just saw this in the news today:
We are also told that Microsoft is concerned that Apple could release a media centre solution built on the Viiv platform. They know that Apple's iPod strength, iTunes sites and relationship with content providers and vendors who are now delivering home entertainment accessories built around the Apple's 17pin iPod connector will have an impact that could well stop Microsoft gaining a dominant position in the home with Vista.

Source: SmartHouse

Wonder what this means for us in this game...
 
Sima Qian said:
Since you're next I'll take your last post as a "Got it."

Yeah - just have to wait for the kids to get off the only computer I can run Vanilla on. Means I havnt been able to look at the save yet - expect I'll be able to play later today
 
@Andronicus (about city placement) that was actually where I originally was goign to put the city (based on Tone's dotmap) but then looking at it, it featured no other cities between it and the hill city SW of Googleplex so decided to make it a little less cramped. We can always whip a settler there and move it if need be.

@Andronicus (about town 3N of Googleplex) I agree with that city site, but think it would be best later and to be used as a fishing village. Plenty of coast to use so get a harbor there and with the low corruption we have a great fishing village.
 
Preturn 1550BC
Cant find anything to do :goodjob:

IT
Writing ->

1525BC 1
Trade AOL Masonary for WM + 62g
Research Maths @ 80% -> 23 turns, -1gpt

IT
Googleplex : web Crawler (WC) -> WC
Linux builds Pyramids

1500BC 2
GMail formed on west coast -> rax

IT
McIntosh completes Colossus

1475BC 3
Scout plays hide and seek with MS swords at MS-DOS

1450BC 4
Buy AOL worker for 29g

IT
Googleplex (now 10spt): WC -> WC

1425BC 5
Lux up to 30% as Menlo Pk hits size 5 - we need those lux
Maths now in 18

IT
WC d barb HM @ GMail on defence
Mountain View : Rax -> WC

1400BC 6
MS has settled Windows SE of planned fur town
Settler MM pair approaching from south
See red borders on island off east coast - send WC to look from hill

IT
Googleplex : WC -> Spear

1375BC 7
WC d barbHM @ GMail

IT
Menlo Park : granary -> worker

1350BC 8
vArch d vMM and captures settler -> 2 slaves :D

IT
Googleplex : spear -> spear

1325BC 9
WC d barbHM @ GMail

IT
2/4CW d barbHM -> promotes to elite
Menlo Park : worker -> settler

1300BC 10
trapped scout between MS and AOL abandoned as now req to pay for extra units

IT
Googleplex : spear -> archer
Mountain View : WC -> WC

1275BC 11
All quiet

IT
Spoke too soon - MS sword approaches

1250BC 12
shuffle units

IT
Googleplex : arch -> arch

1225BC 13
lux up to 40% as Menlon Pk size 6 (4.5-6.5 4turn SF operational once fur town settled and can use forest omn growth)

IT
Menlon Park : settler -> settler
Web Search : rax -> archer

1200BC 14
Setter into pos on furs

IT
Googleplex arch -> worker
MV : WC -> WC

1175BC 15
Froogle settled on furs -> walls
Lux down to 20 - maths in 5 @ -4gpt (AOL have learnt CoL, still lack maths)

IT
Googleplex : worker -> archer

1150BC 16
not much - archers gathering to prepare attack on Windows

IT
AOL & MS aquire philosophy

1125BC 17
not much

IT
Spear d barbHM
2 swords approaching Web Search
Googleplex : arch -> arch
Menlon Park : settler -> settler

1100BC 18
Send units to protect Web Search, change build to walls
send settler to western dot

IT
2 more swords en route
MV arch -> spear
GMail rax -> worker (will complete 2 turns before forest chop which should go towards next unit)

1075BC 19
Science down to 50 - maths in 1
eArch d vSw redlined (1-0)

IT
vSp loses to vSw (1-1)
2MMs threaten Froogle (defended by WCs)
Maths -> Currency? (next player can change if wish as no beakers yet)
Googleplex arch -> arch

1050BC 20
@ Froogle
vArch loses to vMM (1-2)
vArch d MM (2-2)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/SQ01_1050BC.JPG
 
Settler on way to red dot, pink and blue dot may become MS's target next
Wanted to take fight to MS at Windows, but swords at Web Search disrupted my plans
May be better off building cats allowing better odds v swords.
WC have been a bit of a waste so far (other than barb control) as I have avoided using to preserve our GA. Archers with cats can do lots of damage, esp with a couple of spears to absorb attacks.

Trading - we have a maths monopoly allowing a trade for myst + MM for maths, 12gpt + 14g - we need these 2 techs, MM for galleys to meet other people and myst on way to monarchy.
If we do above trade our options include currency, lit or poly. Poly is probably least likely monopoly in 40 turns. IOL and MS may have poly already and / or may be researching lit. As neither has maths, they will not have started currency, and more likely will research construcion first

Settler factory operational from size 4.5 to 6.5 (not 5-7 as has no duct), but does have sufficient shields. It does reqire freq slider use with the multiple changes of size :p
Peeling workers off Googlplex before it gets to size 7, but maintaining 10spt
Worker being porduced at GMail is solely to avoid wasting shields from forest chop (in 5 turns)
 
Oops! I think I forgot to stress the third variant rule enough, and that was:

"We must maintain a positive cash flow at all times to appease our investors. No deficit spending ever."

As a clarification, that rule is in fact quite strict. Not only does it hamper our research rate, but also if it means we have happiness problems and can't afford it even with science at zero, we will be forced to hire clowns rather than suffer a deficit.

Oh well, what's done has been done, and let's just move on from here. We'll just stick to that in future turns.

Patiently waiting for a red unit to show up on that mountain across the sea there...

I believe Tone is up next. Good luck!
 
Sima Qian said:
Oops! I think I forgot to stress the third variant rule enough, and that was:

"We must maintain a positive cash flow at all times to appease our investors. No deficit spending ever."

As a clarification, that rule is in fact quite strict. Not only does it hamper our research rate, but also if it means we have happiness problems and can't afford it even with science at zero, we will be forced to hire clowns rather than suffer a deficit.

Oh well, what's done has been done, and let's just move on from here. We'll just stick to that in future turns.

My bad :blush: I plain forgot, hard to change habits.
Perhaps next time I have to maintain +4gpt to make our investors happy :hmm:
 
I'm glad I checked this thread. Auto-notification didn't happen so I had a bit of reading to do!

OK guys. What's our plan? I'm not quite sure where we're heading but I've seen REX mentioned but I don't believe that's the way to go. I'd like to suggest the following but I want to wait for your approval as it may be a change in direction.

MS is on our doorstep and the only land left to settle is in jungle so I think that in our current situation too many settlers is a bad thing. The only thing they'd give us is extra unit support but we'd need to protect them and roads in jungle are very difficult to build. I've come to the conclusion that WE NEED TO TAKE MS OUT ASAP which means going all out to achieve this.

Short version: Stop producing settlers. Develop first ring with more roads/mines. Pump out units. Take the fight to MS. We have the barracks and technology required to do this.

Some details:
Spoiler :
The settler from Menlo Park will be the last 4-turn one for a while. Web Search will pump out more shields/turn if it is not working jungle (one of the reasons why I wanted it further north) so one cow will go to this town and it will start producing cats. We can get 5spt from here by giving it a coiw and getting the other citizen to work a mountain. The worker that is clearing jungle will switch to a road so that they are not stuck there and reinforcements can move to this town easily. Menlo Park will become a worker pump once another cow is irrigated. We need workers to road through the jungle. It can regain it's settler pump status later by taking the mined bg from our capital.

The workers by our capital are developing tiles that we don't need for our capital yet whilst other towns are working undeveloped tiles. (Why?) I'm going to mine one of those plains so that Menlo Park can have a mined bg later. Then those worker can get Mountain View and GMail up and running. Additional workers can look to connect silks.


Trade: I agree that MM is a really important tech but we really need to know where that iron is. It can only be in one of three places if they haven't set up a colony: on one of the hills SE of MS-DOS or under their capital. I'd prefer to trade for IW and see if we can pillage their source as well as get some swords of our own. We can't get MM and IW though so I vote for IW and Myst.

Research: If we trade maths they will have access to currency and construction. How about we go for Lit at 40 turns and get a GLib prebuild set up? BTW SQ: selecting the Palace for a prebuild is doing silly things. Each town values it at 1200 shields(!) and also when it is selected it only has room in the box for 10!

Despotic GA: I'll try to avoid it but I think that we may find ourselves having to put up with it. The swords look dangerous and remember that a Deity AI can get them for only 18 shields.

Let me know if you violently disagree with this or I'll go with this plan! I could play now but I don't want to go down this route without agreement. I'll play tomorrow night (GMT) unless I hear from you all beforehand.
 
Thats what I was trying to get at before when I was saying we could skip the granary. We outnumber MS in cities right now, we can hopefully outproduce them. Archers and spears should be able to take them down, we only have to deal with swords after all and there are just 3 cities.

Also on the subject of a GL prebuild I honestly can't remember the last deity game I played where it was even a possibility. In vanilla the AI DOES put some effort into getting lit. In my last 5 or 6 deity games I've seen the AI go Writing --> MM --> Lit so we really might struggle to get a monopoly on it.

Oh well you'll no what to do, things are fairly good but when you're in trouble there is noone I'd rather have in the team tahn Tone.

Go get 'em son :)
 
So you have only 4 players? May I join?
Spoiler Before saying yes, read this :
Although I'm known to dissapear long periods of time without any warning
 
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