SQ2: Schizophrenic Shaka

[Andronicus]

I agree with Mirc. The comments about automating workers is not to point finger at whoever did it, rather to inform that it is not good SG etiquette as well as not being an efficient way of using workers, so if no-one wants to 'fess up then we simply move on (if someone wants to 'fess up we move on anyway )

2 turnsets to go if all goes well. I think the most critical aspect will be avoiding wars before we are ready. UN prebuild will probably start beginning of last turnset (only takes 10 turns in ironworks). At this stage could argue that spending our money bribing other AI to better relations will do more to achieve our objective than rushing cultural buildings, next player can decide. Bribes improve relations for 20 turns I think and need to be min 100g to have an effect, so suggest waiting at least 1 turn.

This has been another interesting variant - thank you Sima. It has certainly made us think outside the standard civ3 approach.

 

[choxorn]

I was just being curious, and saying who it possibly could have been.
I agree with you on the fact this variant was cool. So, Sima, when does SQ3 start?

 

[choxorn]

Got it. I would have done this ealier, but well, 3 SG's at once...

 

[choxorn]

Okay, I am going to start a discussion about this game.
I am currently at the beginning of turn 4. I know how I can play it out, but I would like to ask:
A. should we revolt? If so, what to?
B. should we use massive gifts to improve AI relations?

 

[Andronicus]

Okay, I am going to start a discussion about this game.
I am currently at the beginning of turn 4. I know how I can play it out, but I would like to ask:
A. should we revolt? If so, what to?
B. should we use massive gifts to improve AI relations?

My thoughts - dont revolt yet, wait till just before UN build - that way despotic penalty hits for shortest time. My understanding is that relations improve immediately on switching to despotism. It may be that if other civs are MPP-ed to us and we are attacked by our UN rival the turn before elections it may not matter what our relatrions are.

Gifts last 20 turns, I read something about 100g being required. On that basis no point gifting until we are within 20 turns of elections (make it less since UN build will be delayed if we revolt to despotism)

So in short
A. Dont revolt yet, (further opinions on last min revolt welcome)
B. No gifting yet, probably in next turn set.

 

[choxorn]

Okay, no revolt and no gifts- yet. However, war will be inevitable to get the rest of the world not voting for our opponent. I know it will be Pink or Orange Zulu. Can you tell me how I can use Mapstat to find out?
Now, I am making tanks in case of sneak attack, and ironworks is the only city that can be a one-turn tank factory. Should we use it as one?

 

[Whomp]

Here are the numbers worked out by Andronicus so the prebuild in the ironworks city could start around the end of your turns. In fact, you might want to consider starting it mid turnset (5 turns) since we'll have somewhere around 6-7 turns of anarchy back to despot. Go ahead and make culture, arty (non rax) and tanks.

If you look on mapstat there's a tab that gives you how many tiles each civ has. My guess is orange has the most tiles and will be our competition.

Researched combustion and mass production. We are now making 1100 bpt and motorised transport comes in 2 turns with 5 for flight, 6 for radio and 7 or 8 for fission (7 requires 1200bpt). Thats 20-21 turns before we want our prebuild
Best producer now is ironworks @ 102spt giving 10 turn UN (note palace pre-build is also 1000 shields). Hopefully this game finishes 21 turns from now .
Despite gifting and trading all other zulus remain furious with us. I think we should do the rop at the last possible moment (co-inciding with mpp), the only other question being do we need to consider switching to despotism (we lose 1 point of attitude for being in republic and would gain 1 if in despotism

 

[choxorn]

Okay then, I know what I'll do. I'll get back to playing soon.

 

[choxorn]

And- The set's done. Here's what happened:

Summary:
-Lost 3 cities to culture flip, gained 2.
-got Flight and MT, at end of set, Radio is in 3.
-Other than that, nothing really important.

-Pre-Turn (1450 AD):
-everything looks great. There are quite a few citeis on wealth, but it produces a lot of gold, and they don't have anything better to produce anyway. Except diamond: It's growing at size 12, yet doesn't have a hospital, so I switch it to one.

IBT:
Zulu request an audience. It turns out to be LB Zulu, who want a WM trade. I decline, but I think what he said and what my adivsor said were very funny:

Tiny minds? Look who's talking!!
-schizomiddle culture flips to Pink Zulu
-ponyland: Cathedral->Harbor
-tugger: Cathedral->Harbor
-barbport: Cathedral->CF

Turn 1 (1455 AD):
-science decreased to 90%, MT still in 1.

IBT:
-a we give wines/they give furs agreement with Orange Zulu expires. The cost to extend it? 416 gold. Sure, I'll accept that! we can make way more than that per turn anyway!
-we get MT: set research to flight, due in 5 turns at 100%.
-front: Cathedral->Tank
-deer: Temple->Tank
-um-3: Uni->Tank

Turn 2 (1460 AD):
zzz

IBT:
-flipper: Cath->CF
-beatya: Cath->CF
-New Umfolozi 2 culture flips to us

Turn 3 (1465 AD):
-rename New Umfolozi 2 to "Schizolozi"

IBT:
-Amatikulu 2 culture flips to us. Since it has 14 citizens but 8 tiles, and will starve no matter what, I set it on Wealth and change half the citizens to scientists, and half to taxmen.

Turn 4 (1470 AD):
-I rename Amatikulu 2 to "schizotikulu"
-I decide to use ironworks as a tank factory. Switch to Tank.

IBT:
-Schizombe culture flips to Green Zulu
-ponyland: Harbor->CF
-ironworks: Tank->Tank
-beatya: CF->Arty

Turn 5 (1475 AD):
-science decreased to 90%, Flight still in 2.

IBT:
-Green Zulu asks us to move our troops (actually workers) away from schizombe. Sure Thing!
-schizofolozi culture flips to Yellow Zulu.
-diamond: Hospital->Tank
-ironworks: Tank->Tank
-flipper: CF->wealth

Turn 6 (1480 AD):
-A worker moved without me telling it to, so I think it's automated!

IBT:
-Yellow Zulu asks us to move our troops (actually workers) away from schizofolozi. Again, sure!
-we learn flight: set research to Radio. I keep it at 90%, since it's 6 turns at both 90% and 100%.
-front: Tank->fighter (we might need a few of these)
-ponyland: CF->Bomber (these would be nice too)
-grapes: Infantry->Tank
-ironworks: Tank->Tank
-kulu riots

Turn 7 (1485 AD):
-solve problem of Kulu'c riot with taxman
-I can manually move the "automated" worker, so I guess it was just a misclick by me a few turns ago.

IBT:
-ironworks: Tank->Tank

Turn 8 (1490 AD):
-I did what I should have done last turn: I rush airports in all our remote cities. I then switch ironworks to airport, which finishes in 1 turn anyway. However, it cost 3624 gold.
I did this to be able to airlift units to and from our different "terrirories", but mainly so I could get workers there, as they have nothing left to do in our home "territory" except clear jungle (which I've assigned a couple of worker teams to do... )

IBT:
-matikulu, remote, omtata gulf, ombabwe, undi, lozi, tikulu, otombe: Airport->Wealth
-ironworks: Airport->Tank

Turn 9 (1495 AD):
-32 workers in Ironworks, 8 remote cities, 4 workers per remote city. Of course, then I discover you can't airlift workers!!!
Oh well, Jungle clearing it is, I guess.

IBT:
-diamond: Tank->Sub (we have no navy at all and might need one)
-ironworks: Tank->Tank
-spices: Uni->Tank
-banago: Cathedral->Tank
-we lost our supplies of dyes and oil

Turn 10 (1500 AD):
-I am going to stop now, even though there are still worker turns to do.

Notes:
-I left all the Tanks I built so far in a stack outside ironworks.
-Find something for our workers to do!!
-Minimap, with cities that culture flipped from us in Red, and to us in Blue:

-Our U.N. Opponent is currently Pink Zulu, but Orange isn't far behind. In fact, on turn 4, they were ahead of Pink in Land area.
-according to mapstat, we don't need such a big garrison in ironworks anymore:

-Also, I checked the trading screens at 1490 AD and 1500 AD for an explanation on the dyes/oil message. This doesn't make any sense:

-I reccomend you set ironworks on the prebuild after it finishes another Tank or two, and revolt as soon as you get radio.
-If all goes well, this game will only last one or two more sets.
Here's the save.

 

[gmaharriet]

-I did what I should have done last turn: I rush airports in all our remote cities. I then switch ironworks to airport, which finishes in 1 turn anyway. However, it cost 3624 gold.
I did this to be able to airlift units to and from our different "terrirories", but mainly so I could get workers there....

...then I discover you can't airlift workers!!!

lurker's comment: Is this being played in vanilla, PTW or C3C? I know that you CAN airlift workers in C3C. You can also build "airfields" and use them in the very same turn at the mere cost of a single worker or slave (who is consumed).

I have no idea if it works the same way in vanilla or PTW, but I often build many airfields (with zero maintenance cost). You can airlift 1 worker or unit per turn from each airfield. However, you also must have a single airfield or airport for them to be lifted to.

This works best on continents or archipeligos, since rails generally give instantaneous movement on a pangea in your own territory, and you can't build either airfields or airports in enemy-held territory to airlift anything to. I guess I'm not sure what you're attempting to accomplish here.

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Is this being played in vanilla, PTW or C3C? I know that you CAN airlift workers in C3C. You can also build "airfields" and use them in the very same turn at the mere cost of a single worker or slave (who is consumed).

lurker's comment:
Its being played in Vanilla, 1.29f.
IIRC, airlifting workers by airport makes them lose their movement point, but sure, they can be airlifted. No airfields in Vanilla though, so tough luck.

 

[gmaharriet]

lurker's comment:
Its being played in Vanilla, 1.29f.
IIRC, airlifting workers by airport makes them lose their movement point, but sure, they can be airlifted. No airfields in Vanilla though, so tough luck.

lurker's comment: Thanks for the clarification, Ansar.

 

[SimpleMonkey]

lurker's comment: It's arty, armies, cruise missiles, and settlers that can't be airlifted at all. It's slow boats for those guys.

 

[choxorn]

I have figured that out now. The reason I didn't previously know is that I really only played C3C until the 1.22 patch f***ed it up (damn you, won't read disc error!!), and you can airlift workers in that, so I didn't know you couldn't airlift workers. Which just ain't right. Although it makes sense that cruise missles can't be airlifted, arty, workers, and settlers... no. I'm sorry, but they should be able to airlifted.

 

[choxorn]

Anyone want the save?

 

[choxorn]

again, anyone out there? I posted the save 11 days ago.
Whomp? Mirc? Tupac? Andro? SIMA??? Anybody?

 

[Mirc]

I don't have any functional computer to play civ on right now. I have already enough trouble with the other SG's where it's my turn.

 

[choxorn]

SPAM: BUMP: Can anyone play (besides me)?

 

[Whomp]

I've been very busy and haven't had a lot of time for anything beyond Pitboss and PBEMs. I will try to get to this soon.

 

[choxorn]

Days since my save was posted: 24
Does this have a lack of interest or something?