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SQ2: Schizophrenic Shaka

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by Sima Qian, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. SimpleMonkey

    SimpleMonkey King

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    Agree with Andronicus that lurkers should keep up with the game fairly closely. I personally think it's going to be hilarious having all these lurkers trying to keep track of which Shaka is which. :lol: The only way to tell them apart is by color. I'm hoping Sima didn't play with that file too, leaving us with two purple Shakas.

    Emperor is a fair starting difficulty that should let everyone have a decent go at it.

    @choxorn -- Don't play Chieftain. Ever. Start at Warlord and work at figuring out how the game works and ask lots of questions.

    @Whomp -- Still can't rush Wonders in vanilla, not by the usual means or disbanding or cash-rushing. But there's only one flavor of leader, the military great leader, and you can rush wonders with them. Kinda cool to be able to build the Pyramids just 'cuz you got lucky in an archer battle.
     
  2. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    Thanks Monkey I knew there was some weird way to rush wonders.
    though it may help to even the playing field for Shaka...or Shaka...or um...Shaka.

    Reputation is going to have to stay pristine in this game so lurkers be very aware of trade routes.
     
  3. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    @SimpleMonkey - If you checked the sample save you'll see that Civ 3 resorts to picking the colors from the top of the list in the editor after it runs out of default/alternate colors. There won't be two Shaka's with colors that are very close, I think the closest will be blue vs. bright light blue.

    @Whomp - Vanilla is missing a bunch of wonders and improvements, but yes, MGL's can rush Great Wonders. I've also been told that armies got some major boost in C3C, but I'm not fully aware of the difference there. Also a number of units got changed, marines and paratroopers in Vanilla are not as powerful, and there's no medieval infantry and guerrilla units.
    I think this thread would be the one to consult for a more comprehensive list.

    Like Whomp said, reputation is going to be very important. It might be convenient to keep track of the trade routes with a playing aid like MapStat or CivAssist, since it's kind of tedious to open a diplomacy screen with every leader to check current trades. The F2 screen won't help because for each resource, it will say "importing from Zululand" or "exporting to Zululand."

    Another little tip: When another Shaka demands something from you or makes you an offer IBT, you can click the foreign advisor's head on the top right of the screen, and it will take you to the F4 screen. You can find out which Shaka you are talking to by clicking each other Shaka on that screen, and the only one that can respond is the one you are facing at the moment.

    I'm still standing by my current game settings, if there are no objections I'll begin rolling some starts:

    Emperor
    Standard
    Pangaea
    60% ocean
    Warm
    Wet
    5 billion years
    Raging barbarians
     
  4. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    @Whomp: thanx. I think I will do one, but I'm going to make history by doing the first-ever Chieftain SG!! :D I think I'll do one for Warlord afterwards to make history again!! :D :D
     
  5. tupaclives

    tupaclives Tupac Lives on!!

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    I'm a little confused, is this an open SG now or are we just playing with lurker turns as well?
     
  6. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    @Tupac - Based on the response I've gotten so far, most have been lurkers who are interested in the game but don't want to fully commit to playing regularly, so I've decided to use a more informal approach. Open SG, no particular order of play enforced, just make sure to have some fun.
     
  7. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Ok, this is a very good idea.
     
  8. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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    There were some chieftain SGs in 2002. And there's been several warlord SGs as well.
     
  9. The 777 Hoax

    The 777 Hoax future skeleton

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    Alright, this sounds good. I'll play a few turnsets.
     
  10. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    well, there were 12 I never managed to figure out, and a few that said "probably <insert name of level besides Cheiftain or Warlord>" instead of "definetly <insert name of level besides Cheiftain or Warlord>". Could you give me a link to a Cheiftain SG and a Warlord SG?
     
  11. The 777 Hoax

    The 777 Hoax future skeleton

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  12. TimBentley

    TimBentley Deity

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    Here is the most recent chieftain one I saw, and this looks like the most recent warlord game that finished.
     
  13. conquer_dude

    conquer_dude Imperial Slave

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    lurker's comment: I wikll be lurking, and maybe pick up a save now and then.
     
  14. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    @choxorn: I actually have been working on an idea for a Warlord SG, but I'm still fine tuning it and will probably start an SG some time later based on that concept. For now, you can just kind of... wait.

    Judging by the responses so far, I think I'm ready to start. I'll fire up Civ 3 and get some turns done.

    Please note:
    20 turns per set up to industrial age, then 10 turns per set
    Anyone can post a "got it" reply, but please allow at least two other people to play before you play again.
    Try to play and submit your save within 48 hours.
     
  15. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Very funny. :rolleyes:

    Okay, so I was wrong. Maybe I'll change my game to Regent if my group agrees.

    That is, as soon as I get a group :rolleyes:(It's currently just me and Cody, and some higher level players are itching to join...)

    If I like the idea, I'll join. Whenever your ready, Insane Variant Designer.
     
  16. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

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    4000 BC (Turn 0):

    We start by a river and ivory. Remember, this is Vanilla, so please suppress any wet dreams about the Statue of Zeus.



    Worker moves 1 west. Reveals a hut. Hmm. I'm feeling lucky today, so I send the scout to the hut. Out pops...



    ... a warrior.

    I see no compelling reason to move the settler, so I settle Schizobabwe.

    Start building a scout.
    Research set at minimum for alphabet.

    3950 BC (Turn 1):

    Scout discovers a cow to the northwest.
    Warrior moves into the capital, will serve as our first MP.

    3900 BC (Turn 2):

    Scout discovers a hut.

    3850 BC (Turn 3):

    Scout pops the hut and disovers...



    ... ceremonial burial. Great, we can get some early temples, which are very helpful for culture.

    3800 BC (Turn 4):

    Scout moves...

    3750 BC (Turn 5):

    Schizobabwe: Scout -> Scout
    Our first scout finds another hut in the west.

    3700 BC (Turn 6):

    Ahh, the joys of playing an expansionist civ:



    3650 BC (Turn 7):

    Scout moves...

    3600 BC (Turn 8):

    First contact with another civ. We meet the Yellow Zulu.



    They have absolutely nothing to trade, just 10 gold in their treasury. And they're annoyed with us already.

    3550 BC (Turn 9):

    Scout 1 discovers a yellow border.

    3500 BC (Turn 10):

    First cultural expansion. We can work two BG's.
    Schizobabwe: Scout -> Warrior
    Scout 3 reveals another cow northeast of us.
    Scout 2 discovers a hut and wines.

    3450 BC (Turn 11):

    Scout 2 pops the hut. Did I mention something about how much expansionist civs rock huts?



    3400 BC (Turn 12):

    Scout 3 discovers another hut north of us.

    3350 BC (Turn 13):

    Schizobabwe: Warrior -> Settler
    Scout 3 pops... maps.

    3300 BC (Turn 14):

    Scout moves...

    3250 BC (Turn 15):

    Scout moves...

    3200 BC (Turn 16):

    Meet the Blue Zulu. They're ahead of us in tech by Bronze Working and The Wheel. Hmmm...



    Sell Mysticism to Yellow Zulu for Bronze Working + 10 gold. Not ready to buy the Wheel yet.

    3150 BC (Turn 17):

    Scout moves...

    3100 BC (Turn 18):

    Scout moves...

    3050 BC (Turn 19):

    Scout 1 discovers a blue border. Too bad it's a civ we already have contact with.
    Warrior finds a wheat tile on grassland that our scout missed. I think we have a 4-turn settler factory... but it'll require a temple to get set up.

    3000 BC (Turn 20):

    Scout 3 discovers another hut east of our capital.

    Situational Analysis:

    - Settler will be built next turn in Schizobabwe.
    - Scout will pop a hut next turn. Best of luck to the next player with that.
    - I'd suggest building at MOST one more settler in the capital. My recommendation for the next turn is to do Settler -> Temple, another Settler when Temple finishes, and then perhaps we could make a bid for the Pyramids. We also have Oracle to back that up in case an AI steals it from under our noses.
    - Let me re-emphasize. Early temples and libraries will matter in this game. Culture flipping will go completely insane later on, and I want us to be ready for that.
    - Would be nice to hook up wines, but it doesn't seem like the AI has any chance to beat us to it. Looks like we have one end of the continent to ourselves.
    - I have a very crude dotmap here, it seems like we can get a settler factory or even two going because of the cows. Red dot is my proposed second city location (settler factory with temple, granary and stuff), pink dots are other alternatives once we have that in place. Of course, if you have better ideas, please do not hesitate to bring them up.
    - This is not going to be Ring City Placement, and personally I think terrain considerations should trump RCP silliness any day.



    Okay, the save is up for grabs. Try to keep the city names in theme, and good luck!
     

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  17. tupaclives

    tupaclives Tupac Lives on!!

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    Ok got it.

    haha got in first :p
     
  18. tupaclives

    tupaclives Tupac Lives on!!

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    Pre-flight

    Well I can't really change much so I just decide to leave things as they are.

    Here's my disagreements with Sima though.

    1) I disagree with the dotmap on the principle of RCP. I know you say that yuo think its silly but at RCP 4 you can still get som very nice terrain, I can count 6 RCP4 city sites, 5 of them on rivers and none at ICS, but as Sima is leader I'm going to fall into line there. Still think that RCP is very important though, its a big advantage in Vanilla (so much so that they removed it from C3C).
    2) I agree that Schizobabwe probably shouldn't be trying to build too many settlers but I just have no interest personally in AA wonders. Sure if you can get them then why not but honestly I'd rather have Schizobabwe pumping mil, with the occasional settler or worker. Once again though, I will fall into line with Sima. But I see no reason whatsoever to build the Oracle, even as a fall back (hence me not being keen on trying for the pyramids without the ability to switch the city to palace and save the prebuild for something else), I have never built it (even on chieften) and fail to see the advantage of it. I think its at best a luxury and at worst a total waste of time.

    Thats about it really, I'm goign to go with what Sima suggested because he's team leader but I wanted to offer my opinion.

    anyway...

    IBT - settler finishes, set to temple.

    Turn 1 (2950BC) - send settler toward red dot. scout pops the village and its deserted.

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 2 (2900BC) - nothing

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 3 (2850BC) - worker finishes mine, starts roading.

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 4 (2800BC) - meet the Aztec Green Zulu's (henceforth called AGZ). They have 2 cities and 60gp, we are up masonry and mysticism on them. No trades.

    IBT - AGZ asks us to leave their land.

    Turn 5 (2750BC)- worker finishes roading, heads SE toward BG on river.

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 6 (2710BC)- meet the Chinese Pink Zulu (henceforth known as CPZ), same deal as AGZ just less gold. Found Schizobane --> warrior. Pop a village and get 25gp

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 7 (2670BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 8 (2630BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 9 (2590BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 10 (2550BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 11 (2510BC) - Schizobane: Warrior --> Worker.

    Trades are available

    AGZ - Myst + Mas for IW + 22gp
    CPZ - Myst + Mas for The Wheel + 10gp

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 12 2470BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 13 (2430BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 14 (2390BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 15 (2350BC) - Barbs are starting to show. We better have a damn good reason for building temples this early... Sima have you fiddled with culture settings or somethign? Because if not I really don't see why we went for a temple before the AD's... if at all.

    IBt - zzz

    Turn 16 (2310BC) - Schizobane: Worker --> Granary

    IBT - defend against a Barb at Schizobabwe

    Turn 17 (2270BC) - Schizobabwe: Temple --> Settler.

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 18 (2230BC) - one of our scouts is trapped.

    IBT - sure enough we lose the scout

    Turn 19 (2190BC) - zzz

    IBT - zzz

    Turn 20 (2150BC)- Alphabet comes in, set research to Maths @ max without deficit, obviously if they want the next player can change this as no beakers will be in it yet.

    Post Turn - that temple slowed us down. We should have been building warriors instead, a granary possibly. I think that a granary in Schizobabwe is important for growth, I've changed my mind about it not building workers and so forth. We have 2 cities (Schizobabwe will build a settler in 2) and it will be a long time before Schizobane can be a settler factory. I still don't see why we even want a temple? Unless Sima has played with the culture settings (which you probably should tell us about if you have) then we really shouldn't be worried about culture as its only emperor. Even deity AI culture is nothing flash. I say we ditch the idea about the pyramids, I don't see it happening, or if it does it will be too late. What good is ending up with only 6 or so cities with a granary in each if we miss out on actually having cities. Of course its up to the next player, and I'm sure they'll make the right decision.

    My suggestions

    We've started with Sima's dotmap so lets stick to that, however I disagree strongly on the early wonders plan. I would suggest that after the current settler build Schizobabwe builds warrior --> granary --> worker --> settler and we don't worry about wonders. Schizobane needs to be developed and needs expansion anyway before it can be a settler factory. Its really hard keeping track of everyone diplomatically. We have iron to our east in range of one of our pink dots, I would suggest that as our next city site (the cow will be good for growth as well).

    Can't think of much else so good luck to the next player. Go get 'em!



    The save
     

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  19. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    Got it.
    But before I play, I have a question: what's the final conclusion? Where will we settle next?
     
  20. choxorn

    choxorn Watermelon Headcrab

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    Based on what Tupac did, I suggest we call Yellow Zulu "Egypt Yellow Zulu" or EYZ, and Blue Zulu "Germany Blue Zulu" or GBZ.
     

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