Stack of Doom - number of units

[ThERat]

while playing our SG (and other games as well), we have had several SOD attacking our cities. The most recent turnset had SSOD (super stack of doom) with more than 50 units. But, from the screen there is no way to actually know how many units are within a stack. once the screen is filled it would simply say ...
To say the least, it is painful and not very good for planning a proper strategy.

Question: Does anyone know how to tell the real size and units within a stack that exceeds the limit that can be shown on the screen?

link is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157868&page=14

 

[Lithgon]

I would think that once a person reached so many units they would just start throwing them at cities. Anyway, I think the reason is that the developers didn't think it would be necessary for the list to extend to that length. Catapults usually have a devastating affect on SOD now.

 

[jeremiahrounds]

yeah but 50 might out stack of doom the catapult effect. What i mean is the last time i checked collatoral damage maxes at 8 units. So actually a stack of 50 units is FAR less vulnerable then a stack of 8 units.

Still seems like an insane army size~

 

[N3pomuk]

who the heck needs 50 units to take over a city? thats just plain overkill and puts a drain on your economy... never the less I would say whom ever faces that is seriously F***ed
cheers

 

[jeremiahrounds]

How do you know how many are in a stack? Take this screen shot. the "..." indicates more units but doesnt tell me how many right?

This is an amazingly topical screen shot~ So im playing and nobody has fought with alexander the entire game. Im at war with his friend and while he hasnt declared war on me yet... based on this screen shot i think its coming. The city he is next to is one ive just took from his friend.

But how many units are in his stack? All i know is he just dropped a serious army down~ And while i got tanks and infantry men im sooo glad this stack isnt on my continent.

So anyway what if the AI (as it appears to in this screenshot) makes such a stack.

 

[Kurbads]

I will check this back at home. I remember I figured once to see all the units, did some clicking or something, dont remember. Or was that my own stack?

 

[ThERat]

guys, I didn't ask you to tell me how freaking stupid such a SOD would be etc etc. We are playing an AW game if you bother to read the thread. The AI is throwing such stacks at us, also SOD's with less units, but the infamous
...
often appears

Now, whoever claimed SOD is dead is plain wrong since the AI loves them pretty much.
So, please no smartass comments, I am serious about my request

 

[Older than Dirt]

I broached this subject earlier and the nearest that could be determined regarding HUGE SODs is that the only way to tell how many and what all of the units are, is to put a spy on the stack. Big help, eh! The screen, as you know, displays about what? 20? the little ping pong balls on the standard to up to 7. I guess the programmers didn't bother, because as we have all heard SOD is dead. So we must all be hallucinating; there aren't really 30 or 50 units in there, it just feels like it. Collateral damage only affects 6 or 7 units at the most from my experience, so the AI is smart enough to bring everything it has in one stack. Patch material? (No, we really need instead are 12 new civs and cool leader heads of drooling freaks like Nero in the next patch.) Since the developers didn't play the game very much, it is easy to see how this slipped by. I have only seen a couple of SODs over size 20, but I usually attack and cripple other civs before they can muster such.

 

[friskymike]

Question: Does anyone know how to tell the real size and units within a stack that exceeds the limit that can be shown on the screen?

link is here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157868&page=14

That is a great game, I read from page 1 and will be following it. I see how annoying that was...

I would suggest that this would probably be a relatively easy thing to mod, why not post in the mod forum see if anyone there can help you out?

 

[ThERat]

what I find funny is he fact that is is better to move in a SOD around when you attack. The AI's attack pattern is such that once they see a wounded unit it is much more likely that they will attack and take it out. So, a SOD with many units is far safer since a wounded unit/s can be covered by others.
Whoever thought about the concept, didn't playtest it and the betas didn't have sufficient time to find the loopholes.

In any way, they need to patch this. How to play properly if you can't really tell what you are facing?

 

[akots]

If you use the military advisor (play around with it, it is a good resource), you can see the stack and tell how many and which units are there but you cannot tell promotions and health of these units.

Also, if the stack is threatening one of your cities, you can see its contents in the autolog where these units should be listed "Enemy smthing appeared near smwhere".

Also, enabling right-click menu should give some insight onto more units in the stack compared to what you can see but it is somewhat unreliable in the enemy stack during war.

 

[emills]

This is a very common occurrence in archipelago games. The AI will at least have one city with a Super Stack of Doom invasion force with it naval units included. Aggressive civs such as the Greeks or Aztecs will have multiple cities like this.

However, the max out of 8 is not a true limit for siege unit collateral damage. I am not sure if the units that receive collateral damage are picked randomly or in order of health or previous hits, but if you use multiple siege units, you will affect more than just 8 defenders. On the super stacks I will use up to four artillery and then mop up with marines/SEALS. on little stacks, 1 or two artillery are sufficient.

 

[pholkhero]

Since the developers didn't play the game very much, it is easy to see how this slipped by.

They didn't? I thought they were playtesting the game from a very early stage??

 

[Commander Bello]

what I find funny is he fact that is is better to move in a SOD around when you attack. The AI's attack pattern is such that once they see a wounded unit it is much more likely that they will attack and take it out. So, a SOD with many units is far safer since a wounded unit/s can be covered by others.
Whoever thought about the concept, didn't playtest it and the betas didn't have sufficient time to find the loopholes.

In any way, they need to patch this. How to play properly if you can't really tell what you are facing?

There has been a thread in last june or july or so, in which I tried to make clear that exactly this would be the logical consequence on both:
Arty with colleteral damage and no cap for units per tile. Well, I think you know the story already: No, this won't be the case, SODs are history, Firaxis has solved the problem, colleteral damage is the solution, blah blah blah...

I mean, what you report has been so foresee-able that it really doesn't take the game to prove it.
In any case the human player would have made use of this strategy.

The fact that the AI uses it only means that the problem has been identified but they were not willing or able to find a proper solution for it.
In any way, this belongs to the growing list of promises which haven't been hold.

Back to the topic: Unfortunately, I don't have a clue how to determine the stack's size.
Sorry about ranting.

 

[Commander Bello]

They didn't? I thought they were playtesting the game from a very early stage??

If you play the game, you will know that this cannot have been the case.

 

[pholkhero]

PLAY the game?!?! Why the f- would i do that?

 

[ZouPrime]

This may seem like a far fetched solution but... why can't they just hard cap the number of units in a single stack? Like to 15-20 or something?

 

[Guerra]

That reminds me, I was playing multiplayer and this guy, out of no where, attacks me with atleast 30 extremely obsolete units while I had about 5 riflemen and a machine gun in the city.

I survived by a hair, and got REALLY nice xp.

 

[megalomaniac]

The best solution to getting rid of the problem of a huge SOD

Otherwise, build a bunch of cannons, artillery, or whatever the seige unit of the age is, and keep throwing them at it until you do enough collateral damage to make it easier for your attack units to win.

I personally don't worry about how big it is, I worry more about killing it.

 

[Older than Dirt]

We should start a pool to bet on how SODs are "fixed" in the assumed-to-be next patch. The winner could be awarded a copy of CIVII. (I will not donate my copy of CIV II for the award!) Maybe Firaxis would throw in an unsigned photo of Mr. Sid.