Starting luxes reduced?

[ahawk]

I've noticed comments about this in a number of threads, usually threads primarily focused on another topic, so I wanted to start a proper thread for this:

How many of us have recently played BNW and had starting locations consistently not as good as before?

In the ~8 games of BNW (many just to play the opening 100 turns to see how each new civ feels when playing as them), I've found fairly often that only 2 different luxes are anywhere near my starting position. And I've seen other people mention this, too.

I don't tend to check the XML or code, so maybe it's just paranoia, but almost two-thirds of games I've played since BNW debuted have had starts with only two luxes. Before, this was something that happened maybe in less than 10% of my starts. Now, around ~5 games of 8 had one less lux than usual?

Again, I've seen a number of other comments about this. There are reasons I could this being an actual change, but if this is indeed the case, and not just paranoia, then this would stand to hurt super-tall strats.

And as a last note, I'm someone who will move the starting settler a turn or two to look for a spot. I'm not just neglecting to take a look around; sometimes, it's been > 12 tiles away for the third lux (not counting luxes already behind city-state borders).

 

[MantaRevan]

I don't think I've ever had more than 2 luxuries in my capital in my history of playing this game. What difficulty are you playing on? Because this is the norm.

 

[GKShaman]

I actually noticed this today. There was two different luxuries but the variety of luxuries never really changed unless it got close to a neighbors capital. It was really annoying.

 

[ahawk]

I don't think I've ever had more than 2 luxuries in my capital in my history of playing this game. What difficulty are you playing on? Because this is the norm.

With starting resources on the default setting, I normally had at least 3 luxes within 4 to 5 tiles of my first settler, and usually I played Emperor or Immortal.

Since then, I've had only 2 luxes within my starts two-thirds of the time, even when I played my first two BNW games on Prince just to get acquainted.

 

[Nicasen]

2 luxuries has always been the norm for me.

 

[Streams]

Pretty much all my rolls end with a spam of one luxury for a very wide area. In G&K.

And another one. That's most likely already in a lot of CS states.

 

[pilot00]

I have found good starts to be rarer than in GKs but I had starts with multiple luxes.

 

[anandus]

Most of the times 2 different luxes, sometimes when I'm lucky one of those luxes are double within the 3-ring. Don't think I ever had 3 different luxes, or at least it's very rare, as I can't remember it.

Maybe you were used to play with "abundant resources" (or whatever it's called?). And the update reset this option?

 

[Scott Jegg]

It's 2 luxes minimum at any level, but (on G&K) I've commonly got 2 or 3 duplicates on immortal or even the occasions where I've played Deity. I think the most I've had is 6 plantation resources within my capital. I might have had to move a square or two to snag them all though.

As far as I'm aware, the difficulty setting has absolutely no bearing on what resources are available on the map.

 

[Veneke]

I've noticed the same. I ended up restarting a couple of times just to see if it was a bad roll. The chances of finding a nearby third luxury seem to be less, I'm still not convinced that's actually the case but it certainly feels that way. Regardless of that though it seems almost impossible to deny the reduced odds of finding duplicate luxury resources in your starting position. Duplicates were fairly common in G&K and now they seem to be all but non-existent.

 

[Scott Jegg]

Just started a new game... silk, furs, 3 ivory (2 plains wheat) in immortal.

Multi luxes still happen.

 

[mike3640]

I also noticed the same. I had to place my cities much further apart than usual and there are large swaths of land unoccupied because there are less variety of luxury resources. I tend to exclusively settle in areas where there is at least 1 unique luxury resource.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Have only started one game, but starting location seemed about typical.

 

[Bad Wolf]

Hmm, I've noticed this too. I remember I used to get more balanced starts, with 4 or 5 different types of luxuries within 10 or so tiles of the capital. Now I count myself lucky if there are 3. Even setting luxiries to "abundant" on advanced set-up only increases the number of luxury tiles, not the number of different luxuries.

 

[eris]

My perception is that there is the same number of luxury tiles, but that geographic diversity is much more regionalized. It is not so much the first city that is at issue as the land around my first city. There will be luxuries, but they tend to be duplicates.

 

[Mesix]

Yes, I feel that the starting locations are weaker than in G&K...and the luxuries seem to be more sparse in general making city location difficult (not jut the capital). I think this was done on purpose to starve players of and force the new trading mechanic to be used to develop economically. It really punishes an isolated start.

 

[joncnunn]

Legendary has the same pattern as before.

Of course both a river start and a sea bonus resource start aren't worth as much in BNW as before.

 

[CoolLizy]

I haven't noticed any change. Last BNW game I played I had silver and marble adjacent to my city tile, with gold, gems, and incense all within five or six tiles and cotton just a little further than that. And on G&K I've had starts where there's just more copies of your starting luxuries wherever you have a chance to settle.

Like before, it all just depends on how favorably the RNG gods look down on you. A human sacrifice might improve your starting resources if performed during map generation. I've read this helps, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

 

[MadDjinn]

the code for picking start locations wasn't changed.

Ofc, removal of the gold from river tiles is making some 'ok' locations (in G&K) turn into less than nice locations.

The map scripts are meant to mix up placement of the luxuries. There is always a high chance that a monopoly of a single lux will be in one area. You can trade those for other luxes

Purely mixed luxes (to get 4-6 lux within say 10-15 hexes of your start, if no other capital) is a bit less likely - and not desired.

Keep in mind that the code will also consider strategic resources when picking a capital location. So if you've got less lux, then you'll end up with more strategic resources.

 

[Ryoga]

I noticed this in all of the games I played so far.

It's not the quantity the issue but the diversity. It really seems to have been changed.
Usually I could find at least four different luxes in the proximity of my capital, two by default near the capital itself other two in nearby potential expansion sites.

Now the nearby potential expansion sites have the same luxes in my capital, to get an expansion with an actual luxury that I don't have I need to settle further away with obvious economic repercussions on city connections.

I would have thought that it was just bad luck but seeing as many others got the same impression I think that it's very unlikely that there isn't an actual change.