Starting Position

DaveMcW

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The sun rises on the year 4000 BC. Since time immemorial, the Quatronian people have lived a nomadic life. After years of wandering, they are ready to settle down and found your first city.

Hannibal, your people have vested absolute power in you, trusting that you can build a Civilization to stand the test of time!

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REALLY? ZOMG REALLY?

I hesitate to be the first on the team to respond to the sight of where the reign of glorious Quatronia will begin without proper preparation...so...

Q_as_God.jpg


Praise the Q, we are powerful and will bend the world to our desires!

Spoiler :
So this is awesome and incredibly interesting. No doubt other teams will have very similar starts, probably a balance of corn/wheat/rice and gold/gems/silver or something. But wow, obvious encouragement to settle in place, will be very interesting. More thoughts later, hope you're all pleased. Also of course cool that we got Carthage without trouble.
 
I would say move the warrior to the plains hill, then settle on the start should that move reveal nothing notable.

EDIT- So is the game launched yet? Or is this just a preview to wet our appetites?
 
Congrats, befittingly named first viewer of our realm, Earthling. :)

We should definitely settle in place. We should also go for an early scout (hunting), utilizing the warrior as a happiness buffer along with silver, charisma and later monument (allowing us an early bigger city from which we can expand much faster). We can already research hunting and agriculture as our first two technologies (not workboat this time around), as we do not quite yet need wheel, due to the nice river.

I would suggest the following research:

Technologies 1-8
Hunting (early scout), agriculture (farm wheat), bronzeworking (identify copper and chop), wheel (connect and farm second wheat), animal husbandry (identify horse for UU), pottery (granary and cheaper writing), writing (library) and mysticism (happiness bonus from Monument combined with Charismatic trait).

Technologies 9-10
Pending we have horses in sight after Animal Husbandry
archery, horseback riding

Pending we have neighbors we want to initiate technology trades with and accelerate chops
Mathematics, Alphabet

Pending we want early religion and/or monarchy
meditation, priesthood (positions us for Confucianism by Code of Law as well as Monarchy)

Pending we go for UB earlier
Iron Working, Compass

Pending we go for Colossus
Sailing, Metal Casting

Pending we go for Great Lighthouse
Masonry and sailing
 
I'm going to be annoyed if this "opening" was an April Fools joke though. Let a million other hilarious announcements/fake movies/fake videogames/fake news go by, but not our Demogame!

So anyway, as for real strategy - I think this means we'd expect everyone to tech really fast at the start, which is interesting. Opening is easy and obvious anyway, techs for the worker and the worker has plenty of tiles to improve.

I do think the wonders are going to be a close call however. We seem situated for the Colossus and that has greater staying power than the GL in some ways, (imo) though we'll have to see, and make a call rather early to be sure we don't get beat. Academy of course useful; capital in fact would be a bureau beast, so that's another call if we want to beeline that really fast. An early forge engineer could be really awesome for owning some wonder race with an unexpected GE though. Neighbors and tech trading of course will all be the wild cards.
 
I like very much and will echo the comments of Earthling.
I would assume very similar starts for all nations.

Is that a resource 3W of the Settler? Any guesses there?

I'm thinking warrior 1SW to see what he can see. Settle 1S on the silver for the production bonus and maybe a coastal food resource (2S,2E from the settler).
I'll lay out some suggested build orders / research queues when I've had some think time as I'm at work ATM.

Worldbuilder file attached if anyone is interested in running some tests. It's rough so i'll invite anyone else to paint a cleaner one.
 

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Galdarian, please hook me up with the Pitboss log-in data. I need this in order to fulfill my turnplayer duties.
 
As the appointed turnplayer. Do you approve for the following actions for Turn 0.

1. Settle on site
2. Move warrior Southeast, in order to move in a semicircle South, Southwest and onwards (please also consider the effect of near future cultural border, so we dont waste moves).
 
Sounds fine. However as far as tech goes surely we want to tech Agriculture first, to have the wheat farmed as soon as possible? Don't think we have time for something else first and Hunting is not urgent. I think goody huts are off so there's no race to that (although of course scouting/contact with other teams is important. Land scout + workboat couldn't hurt eventually).
 
I think we should go Agriculture first, in order to reach a certain consensus.

My present plan is to research the following technologies, in sequence:

Agriculture, Hunting, Bronze Working, Mysticism, Animal Husbandry, Wheel, Archery
The build sequence will be proposed as something like this: Worker, Scout, Monument, Chop Settler, 2 Archers

Then the last two techs would be pending our neighbors:

India: Writing, Mathematics

Persia: Masonry, Horseback Riding

Mayans: Masonry, Iron Working

Dutch: Pottery, Writing

Vikings: Masonry, Horseback Riding
 
Is everybody in the game a played team or are there NPC civilisations?
 
There are most definitely no AI civilizations, or else everyone would be really angry and surprised. The other teams are the civs listed (Dave posted somewhere on main forum.) We're up against Gandhi, Willem, Pacal, Ragnar, and Cyrus.

I have some ideas on openings I'll post/edit shortly. At any rate agriculture/worker first =>grow cap to size 4 to work both wheat and silver is probably what we do regardless.

Colossus Opening
I am pretty confident that we can beat almost any other team to the colossus, if we went for it straight out. We'd still settle 2 other cities first probably and do ok exploring. Main competition would be somebody trying to Oracle Metal Casting, say India. However due to the sheer fastness of teching with two silver I think we'd be able to self-tech MC before them on this route anyway unless they were really, really dedicated; nobody could really beat us to MC without the oracle and no one is industrious either so we'd be good in that scenario. If they went all out they'd either lose a ton of production on the Oracle (lose their forests via chopping) or would just be slower than us, but it could be a risk.

Tech would be Agriculture, Bronze Working, Wheel, Pottery, Metal Casting. We could throw in Mysticism or something along the way if we wanted/didn't think we'd suffer from slowing down. On this straight path we get:
-worker by 12
-warriors by 17, 22 I think, or we could choose to do an exploring WB first
-Build settler at size four, first settler out at 35
-MC by 55 (or a few turns after if we got other techs besides the hard beeline. Build a forge in 10 or so turns, prechops (hope we have copper...) should get Colossus just a turn or two after (prechopped forests come in). So Colossus in the mid 60s, assuming we snag copper with a second or third city.

Advantages
The Colossus is awesome; also, I'd run an engineer specialist. Our first GP is either an Engineer or Merchant; hopefully engy we could use on any other wonder we wanted. Merchant I'd use to bulb a very early civil service - Bureau will be great this game and Colossus only helps. We also deny Colossus to others

Disadvantages - lack of other techs, like quick horses for our UU, if we straight beeline MC. Also, the trading/diplo situation is unknown - we could be awesome being the only ones with MC to trade, and trade that to someone else who's gone Alphabet/Mathematics/etc... But there's a chance this doesn't do us much good. And if we somehow lose the race, we're stuck on a poor techpath (though we wouldn't have wasted much production, we'd still have large cap/granaries/forge and forests prechopped for something, but anyway)

What India could do - they could have the Oracle by about 40 assuming a start + resources similar to ours, and Oracle MC. Of course, this would mean they wouldn't have even built a second city, if they were to go straight onto a forge from there, and it assumes they Oracle MC. If India gets a second city their oracle would be a little later but they'd still beat us to MC by a few turns so there is a risk - of course having copper to speed up Colossus building is a must for either of us. Anyway, any other team going after the Oracle would likely take even longer due to lack of fast workers and I think we'd be ok. So the Colossus is a riskier gambit out of all the ones here but also quite possibly good rewards.

Straight Rex
This one is simple - what happens depends too much on the rest of our land. But we just get regular techs, don't go down the religious line if we don't want, find horses and copper, and tech to say Math and Currency quickly. Cap still opens by growing to 4 of course and then build settlers/workers/grow and get a strong empire. A safe route, and we could have early alphabet/other trading techs. Definitely would want all the exploring workboats/scouts we could use. So if one were to simulate it can't go much further than the first settler anyway (35 again I'd say) since then it depends what our next city sites are.

sample build timings
-worker 12, scout 19, warrior and workboat by 27, settler 35 with a chop onto whatever is next; city is size 4 with resources farmed/mined, teched whatever we want; won't have all of pottery/animal husbandry/mysticism techs but we'll have what we want, then just keep building/expanding on our merry way. Second settler by 41 or build a granary in the cap or something...after 30 turns in if we're going after general REX/exploring our choices will depend on what happens in the game.

Stonehenge into REX
I like this option a lot, because SH is so useful for our civ. Border pops for free, extra free smiley in our cities. All we have to do is tech Mysticism after Agriculture, and our capital builds SH. Unless some other team has the exact same idea, or India builds SH from very early, we'd get it. I expect India to go for some Oracle gambit but even better would be us surprising them if they hadn't started SH early. Basically we get first worker and then build SH from there, second cities a little slower but hey, earliest wonder.

Equivalent to this I'd say is doing the above but with the Great Wall; we replace SH benefits with GW, get spy points instead of prophet; I'd say that's kinda meh but also an option if we wanted. Anyway other teams may be considering the same with these early wonders, probably everyone has a great capital so for production we'd have to start really early - basically after a first worker + warrior is what I'd say.

Worker at 12, then another warrior 17; Stonehenge 36. After that a settler could be out by 42. We could also tech a religion at any point if we wanted and someone else didn't take it.

For greatwall: research Masonry instead of Mysticism; GW is at 38 with a forest chop; settler 44 or 45. I don't see the Great Wall as being quite as useful to us but hey, the option is there.

Of course, we don't *have to get these wonders right away, we could just go with settling a second city/building more early warriors/scouts and so on, but then there's more risk of losing the wonders if we do want them.

Advantages
Benefits of wonder; early great person, deny wonder to other teams.

Disadvantages
Could still lose the wonder to really bad fortune; also second city expansion is slower. But we'd follow this with a typical opening otherwise, same economic techpath we would expect, and see where the game/diplo takes us.

Great Lighthouse (into REX too)
The other early wonder I'd consider, though I like the Colossus more. However this puts us much less out of the way techwise, and we'd be practically a shoo-in compared to most other civs, we have the starting tech and position for it. Get sailing and Masonry fast and get out a lighthouse probably after our first settler, then chop the GL.

timing:
worker 12 warrior 17 warrior 22 workboat 27 settler 35 (or similar combos of early warriors/scouts/workboats - settler starts when we hit size 4)
lighthouse 45 or so
pick up another worker here would work, then
GL around 60, depending on what we tech (mathematics for faster forest chops by then would probably forgo either hunting or AH earlier)

Advantages/Disadvantages
We'll have the Great lighthouse essentially, doing fine on tech/trading/exploration, though our REX settling is slowed down a little (only one other city founded before GL for optimal GL speed). Once again this wonder could be delayed in favor of more settling/expansion too, but not going the fastest path risks losing it.

My Summary/thoughts
I like the idea of going for an early wonder; why not? Anyway, also attached is a test save I made - unfortunately of course we don't know what surrounding lands our like, but this should match the capital I think. If our starting warrior sees something good in the first 10/15 turns of course we can change plans to be sure we're on a plan where we can settle 2nd/3rd cities nice and fast.

So an overall plan is probably something to discuss/put up to vote and these are just some ideas. I myself am not sure of the viability of early war; we might not even make contact early but that's another path; one I haven't much tested of course.

Other thoughts - no huts and and low difficulty means I'm not worried about barbs or anything like that at all; exploration is useful of course but a couple scenarios here have more than enough of that - just with standard expansion, send warriors/scouts/workboats out.

Edit: Should mention I'd prefer getting either Stonehenge or the Colossus, unless something really good around us revealed itself, in which case just flat out expanding and saving for later wonders like HG and Library would be ok.
 

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I think I would like to consider a Stonehenge gambit, even if the Persians would like the same. They got Charismatic too, and their imperialist trait allows for faster growth.

Real competitors to stonehenge would be persians, indians and mayans.
 
Good God. I'm reading Earthling's post and suddenly I'm feeling way, WAY out of my depth - and you guys are supposed to be on the same team as me!
 
I didn't do much but propose the routes we'd go to get wonders. Sorry for any confusion. But to put things simply

-We build a worker first, research Agriculture, and farm both wheats, then mine the gems. We do all that no matter what, though our 2nd/3rd techs could differ.

-The rest are just ideas for what techs to go for/what to build in what order. We don't have to obsess over particular turns - but it is a good idea to have a little comparison, and to know what's feasible early on. Techs like animal husbandry or sailing might delay a few turns if we were going for other wonders/techpaths for instance. Don't worry, I won't be making further spreadsheets or something.

Anyway I do really, really like Stonehenge for our civ, because it helps us in numerous ways and is easy to get. I also think it'd be a nice surprise - hopefully - because if other teams had the same idea (essentially build it from the start) then they could possibly beat us to it, depending on circumstances. But if everybody else isn't thinking of a wonder race that early we get free monuments and happiness in all cities from then on, start filling up great people meter and have the good feeling of getting an early wonder.

Colossus is another great call - but also, if nobody else rushes for it either (cause rushing the Colossus is pretty hardcore for anyone) we could always build it later too.
 
1. Settle on site
2. Move warrior Southeast, in order to move in a semicircle South, Southwest and onwards (please also consider the effect of near future cultural border, so we dont waste moves).
While nitpicky, I'd rather have the warrior move first then the settler found. *Just* in case.

I like the colossus option. I don't think we'll be too close to another team so military building won't be a huge priority, just a big one. ;) It would be a real steal.
 
All rite, we can move first, just to be 100 % of the site, I can do that.

For me its either Stonehenge, or Colossus. I think the proximity of Copper would be a real deciding factor on this one. After Bronzeworking, we will know more what we are comfortable with. Actually, I think Stonehenge first would make Colossus too even more feasible.
 
I think that Stonehenge is a good early wonder to get, but it may be too obvious and everyone might be doing it too.
 
Yeah, that's about the story of Stonehenge there. We can't really guarantee a solid chance - India or the Mayans, and even someone else like Persia who wants to tech Mysticism could do the exact same thing we'd do, and just build it from the start (after a first worker +warrior). I'd be willing to take the risk though, as the rewards would be great, but it's certainly a team call.

As far as the Colossus or any wonder goes - I always know there is a chance we can just pick it up later, which would be great. Certainly possible we could get it later if we get an early wonder first - so long as nobody else is rushing towards it or Oracles it or something. Anyway for obvious reasons these are some of the best wonders for our civ; then of course Great Library/Hanging Gardens/Pyramids/Mausoleum are standard nice wonders.

I honestly expect whoever goes for the Oracle to go for a Civil Service slingshot however, and I don't expect anyone but maybe the Dutch to be really gung-ho after the Colossus, but we'll see.
 
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