Starting Position

[Earthling]

Yeah, we'll undoubtedly settle close-by islands ourselves anyway.

Would be interesting to see if there are any other islands reachable by coast, or if it's just that one (could be larger/continent sized too) to our NorthEast.

Anyway, some things I was thinking about - also, I've made another save extending the old one to have a setup resembling what I expect our island will fill out like. I put in copper cause I'm guessing we have at least one of copper/horse/iron but that's not a sure thing; works for testing though.

So the save is attached...

And the thing I was noticing just playing for a little, is that I really like the traditional economic/fast expansion tech path. Stonehenge is looking worse imo cause it's not worth the delay on the second city/we don't need that many momuments.

Other early wonders also aren't seeming as sound of bets

I understand this isn't all scientific, however the point hits hard and fast if you play out a test game for a while.

Our island is badly lacking in diverse resources and expansion to what land does exist on this map will be key.

We lack freshwater, seafood, and resources in general - we are at least fortunate due to charismatic that we should do well on happiness (here's personally hoping other teams are hit brutally on that front, and why shouldn't they be, mapmaker shouldn't have given other teams extra free resources - same with marble and stone I hope too, it would be devastating to have actually given some team a monopoly.) but health is a problem. No freshwater, and not having different types of resources means bonuses hurt. So over all other priorities simply getting other land and resources seems important because being stuck at 5 or 6 health cities (well, without aqueducts/grocers but those are later) is NOT cool.

The other thing - Calendar would be a ridiculous boon to us landwise (bunch of 3f 4c tiles immediately) and the wonder with it is not half bad either if we wanted it, nor do I fear direct competition from other teams so much. Losing a Colossus/Stonehenge race seems really bad at this point so a way to diverge/guarantee we're on a safe path with unique tech trading opportunities and all sounds good.

So perhaps I should lay this out in the other thread, with a more concrete proposal (summary would be quick 2nd/3rd cities, then quick overseas too, going down writing/math/aesthetics/calendar/literature that techpath. Overseas we look for key city sites and resources like marble which could help us to a lot of wonders). But just some thoughts.

 

[RegentMan]

Is that coast in the upper left under the fog in the last turn played?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=249534&d=1271284255

Maybe instead of each team's islands surrounding the one giant continent all of the teams are in the middle surrounded by a ring of land? Heh all speculation at this point- will be funny to see what the actual layout is.

 

[Earthling]

Yes, it looks like it. Really nice catch. But also doesn't seem we could get culture spread there that easily - hopefully it connects around somewhere, we'll see with that first workboat.

I know we're taking our sweet time on this turn because we need a decision where to go. Anyone else with new input/ideas?

It might be possible to put 1 turn into researching Bronze working now - we don't lose much either way we go then I think - because for the Stonehenge plan we could even go back and get Mysticism on time. But we'll see if we have a decision tomorrow I guess. Given our island status I just don't see Stonehenge doing enough in my book, delays boats/cities and we don't exactly need the culture or happiness that immediately now. Just my thoughts however.

 

[TyBoy]

If we founded a city where the warrior is right now we could border pop our way to that other island fairly easily. It would probably mean 4 cities total on our island though, rather than 3. More or less one at each corner.

 

[Earthling]

Guys I'm going to play this one before bed so our turn doesn't roll over doing nothing, if that's all right. Anyone else on in the short term (hour or two) feel free to propose something.

Right now I'm thinking
-warrior just cuts diagonally SE
-New tech (it is a new tech right, Ag is done?) is Bronze Working. We can switch back to something later if need be; right now we are just doing a turn (or two or w/e) on BW cause I think we can do that and still get back to any other path, and of course we get BW no matter what in a bit anyway.

 

[Earthling]

So we already missed a turn or what? Turn 8 was the last one on the turn tracker and turn 10 is now? Explains why the timer has a bit more time left. Anyway I did not finish the current turn, seeing as there is still time for discussion (15+ hours and I'll check back tomorrow at least even if no one else has by then)

Anyway, I propose we keep moving the warrior SE to those last few unexplored tiles.
And that we change tech to Bronze Working for a few turns if needed, as no matter we do we get BW anyway, and we haven't decided what our opening strategy/teching will be yet.

 

[RegentMan]

Provo played and posted turn 9. We missed turn 10. I went ahead and played turn 11 as we were the last ones. I moved the warrior (wrongly by your suggestion Earthling, sorry; remembered wrong) and kept the tech on bronzeworking. That started turn 12 where I just hit enter. We get our worker next turn, whom I assume will farm both wheats first?

 

[Earthling]

Yeah, farm the wheats and then mine, shouldn't be a reason to deviate from that.

We really need some more discussion/decisions on what to do though. If we want to get Stonehenge, we can still finish Mysticism. If want to push for early boats other than workboats we'd do really well to get started on Sailing right about now I think; though of course the galleys could come later and we could just have a couple workboats before the first settler and settle our own island first.

 

[RegentMan]

We really need some more discussion/decisions on what to do though. If we want to get Stonehenge, we can still finish Mysticism. If want to push for early boats other than workboats we'd do really well to get started on Sailing right about now I think

Well we have ten people on the team, and five have voted in the poll. So there are still five out there who can speak up and/or vote annonymously (butchered that word). Unfortunately with a small team, we might have to get used to only five or six votes.

 

[TyBoy]

Nobody has voted in a few days. We could give it a couple more days, but it will probably stand is it is now.

IMO rushing to a galley wouldn't be because we want to settle off our island before we fill it up, but to get a warrior or whatever over there to start looking around and to be standing by as soon as we want to send a settler over, and maybe to kill a work boat. We could probably go workboat -> workboat -> warrior -> warrior or something like that and come out about even time-wise with building stonehenge so we could go straight into workers and settlers and it wouldn't matter what we research before or after BW, then build the galley down the line, maybe even as our second city grows.

 

[RegentMan]

I went ahead and played the turn as we were almost last. Provo, I only did it because I haven't seen you post lately and because we missed that one turn. If you are still around, let me know and I'll stop logging in.

 

[Earthling]

At this point, Workboat => Workboat alone just takes our capital city to size four, with the worker finishing up the silver mines and then he could chop or whatever.

So building a settler at 4 is very feasible of course, though we could continue to grow to five and perhaps tech pottery or something to put a little bit into a granary/something that won't lose production.

Other possibility is to throw a warrior in there or get started on a galley after; something like workboat => warrior => galley; we'd have to decide whether we'd finish the galley right away growing to like size 6 or switch to a settler partway and then finish the galley after. I am fuzzy on how losing hammers into a build works exactly but I think you're in the clear for at least 10 turns, and much longer for buildings/buildings shouldn't matter.

I think we do need to have a plan agreed on for something else though - at least if we're not switching back to mysticism/Stonehenge. Where do we put our second city?

For me I think by the silver/wheat is ideal. The revelation of that new coast means we might someday want a city on that "corner" of the island though, but maybe our first workboat explorer can see what's over there/get there from another direction. But I favor at least some city that works a wheat + silver right away because it gets so valuable after just a few turns of growth. I know the southern city will have two wheat + whatever is on that plains hill and the capital's culture handles that for it, but I'd rather have the quicker commerce I think; and that would always be our third/fourth city.

Anyway, we of course won't try to miss another turn but other teams are taking their time too; I've got no concerns over RegentMan playing if he has to. I do wish other team members would speak up though! - we need a democratic opinion and I hope some of you are around

 

[TyBoy]

Revealing that extra silver threw a bit of a wrench in my thinking for city locations, before it was revealed I would have founded one on that square. Knowing what we know now though my thinking for city locations would be 1N of the silver, 4S 1W of our capital and 3S 1E of the silver. There wouldn't necessarily be a lot of hurry on that last one though. It could share the wheat with one or both of the others to grow, but it really wouldn't prosper on its own merits until we got plantations going.

 

[RegentMan]

Did I get your suggestions correct, Tyboy?:

I was thinking the same thing, except the green dot 1E for less overlap. Of course, I don't micromanage my cities when I play in single-player and always attempt to minimize overlap, so that's where that thought came from.

Although there might be some more sea resources under the fog that could throw green dot.

Are there any ideas for a three-city build? Or is four what we want to go for?

 

[galdarian]

If we plan to go 4 cities on the starting island I would agree with you RegentMan and move the 'green' city 1E.

 

[TyBoy]

yeah, you read me correctly regent. With these islands as contrived as they are I kind of doubt there's a sea resource out there with no others around the rest of the island. Obviously we should check it out. My reason for putting the green city there is that moving it 1E would leave no city collecting that plains hill in the middle, which I still strongly suspect has a strategic resource, most likely copper, maybe iron. I suspect moving it only picks up a coast and two ocean squares.

We can scout the area out to see about the sea resource and we'll get bronze working before we build that city so we'll see. Those are just my initial thoughts.

If I was going for a 3 city setup I would move the red city one or two squares south and get rid of the purple one. With that silver being where it is and the hint of another island to the northwest I would vote we just go for 4 though. There's no reason we would need to rush settling the purple city. It could easily come after our first off-island city if we felt rushed to claim some overseas territory. Red and green would both be very prosperous cities where they are on that map with or without purple in the mix.

Looking at our island I'm inclined to believe that any square outside our capital that hasn't gotten forested over probably contains a strategic resource that is blocking the forest, which would make me reluctant to move the red city 2 tiles south and lose that unforested plains. That's just a hunch at this point though.

 

[RegentMan]

My reason for putting the green city there is that moving it 1E would leave no city collecting that plains hill in the middle, which I still strongly suspect has a strategic resource, most likely copper, maybe iron. I suspect moving it only picks up a coast and two ocean squares.

Ah good point. I'd rather have the production than some water tiles.

 

[Earthling]

Looking at our island I'm inclined to believe that any square outside our capital that hasn't gotten forested over probably contains a strategic resource that is blocking the forest, which would make me reluctant to move the red city 2 tiles south and lose that unforested plains. That's just a hunch at this point though.

I agree with this. However there's also the chance it's something like oil or aluminum on one of them guys

The three city plan, if there was to be one, would have the green city as is and the red city 2S. It could be possible I guess to sneak in a fourth, 3W 1N of the capital - just north of that unforested plain if something is revealed. But this city would be quite heavy on almost exclusively water tiles - though it could borrow a wheat/work any other resource revealed. Any city that gets spices up and running really won't be hurting for food; I am kinda inclined to still get to Calendar/get the plantations up soon because they really seem quite valuable.

So in short I'm ok with different proposed city plans; we can't go too far wrong, and we have a little time to explore/make sure no seafood problems or urgent concerns off-island. One thing to note is if it turns out to be a rush for city spots on other islands/continents then we'd have to consider whether getting 3 or 4 up on the home island first is best.

Though again, I don't want to presume too much on a consensus regarding other plans than just expanding; we could still decide to go for certain wonders after all and take that into account too if that's what we want.

 

[Earthling]

I'm thinking we ought to make new thread for discussing overall current strategy and/or intelligence. I may not do this right; we could possibly use multiple threads, but I'm not sure this is going exactly where we want it. More to the point, I like that style/format from previous games and I think some others here are familiar with it (the worst that happens is we don't like using another thread). But anyway I have some thoughts about what other teams are up to due to Demographics so I put that in the intelligence thread. If anyone has a specific idea of how they want to organize things we could do that. Alternatively, as discussed in our overall team ideas, perhaps we want a thread for each city's builds? And maybe opening the thread on the capital could work for now since that's all we have right now anyway, if someone wanted to do that.

Also, I'd like to ask everyone again - is anyone concerned about the ruleset proposal I was looking at? Namely that odd period during war where *certain* teams get a time to "promote units"? Still doesn't make sense to me at the very least regarding how 3 or more civs at war would be handled, even if it's acceptable with two.

I didn't play the current turn obviously cause we need the time for discussion even if other teams yell at us... However, I would recommend the war going straight SE to hit the coast down there, which is unexplored. There is no use to having him where he is now; even for fogbusting (which shouldn't even be a concern really about barbs spawning yet). If we wanted to fogbust/had nothing else to do the best fogbusting spot is still 2 SE of where we are right now.

We also really need to know what we're building after the workboat/teching short term, but that's a given. Mysticism can still finish; if we wanted to finish anything other than that or Bronze Working we'd have to switch again now, though nothing is horribly pressing I guess.

 

[RegentMan]

1. I think the demographics analysis went in the correct spot. Not sure about the thread per city idea- perhaps one thread dedicated to city builds?

2. About your ruleset proposal, I wasn't 100% on what was being discussed, granted I only reread it once. I think promotions should be allowed to be saved up (e.g. a unit should be allowed to be 5/2 up to an attack on a city). The only murky area I could see is promoting a unit right after an attack when the unit has no movement left and it just earned enough XP to use a promotion. If either side can do that, then I see no problem. If only one side can do that or if the rules about wartime make it unclear, then perhaps there needs to be a change.

Ugh I just confused myself...

3. The warrior is moving to the SE- good idea. I played the turns, but we'll slow them down should we not have lively discussions or decisions in order to reach them.

4. Are we doing another workboat after this one? I would vote for sailing as the next tech.