blackheart
unenlightened
Designated landing zones in natural defensible positions (hills, mountains) would replace the need for forts to be built.
Stationing Troops overseas
- Thread starter ali
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Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Blackheart, that is where we disagree, but I agree that a Rapid Deployment back up force is needed, but we also need a first line peacekeeper unit to win time.
blackheart
unenlightened
Provolution said:
First line units would be alright if we knew where the invasion is going to take place or if there was a RR network for us to quickly move forces, but since there are neither, fortifying units in a few positions would be nothing more than cannon fodder.
Ashburnham
King
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- 827
This discussion is getting out of hand.
First of all, we are not at war. We are no where near war. Unless we let the warhawks run wild in the next Turnchat, we won't be using any troops any time soon. Secondly, we don't have any enemies on Atarashika. We don't have any allies either. None whatsoever. As far as we are concerned, Atarashika is a vast expanse of neutrality. I strongly object to the MSAV's decision to arbitrarily decide who will be our allies and who we will deploy against. Not only is it not their place, but it is detrimental to Foreign policy in general. I would like to see this entire plan scrapped until we can better assess who our friends and enemies are on this other continent. Yes, I know it's good to have a plan. And yes, I know that we've recently discovered a fetish for "doctrinitis". But, there are simply too many concerns about the MSAV overstepping its bounds, and picking and choosing its allies regardless of the actual facts for me to listen to this kind of talk. Let's take a break, cool off, and look at the situation again in a few Turnchats.
First of all, we are not at war. We are no where near war. Unless we let the warhawks run wild in the next Turnchat, we won't be using any troops any time soon. Secondly, we don't have any enemies on Atarashika. We don't have any allies either. None whatsoever. As far as we are concerned, Atarashika is a vast expanse of neutrality. I strongly object to the MSAV's decision to arbitrarily decide who will be our allies and who we will deploy against. Not only is it not their place, but it is detrimental to Foreign policy in general. I would like to see this entire plan scrapped until we can better assess who our friends and enemies are on this other continent. Yes, I know it's good to have a plan. And yes, I know that we've recently discovered a fetish for "doctrinitis". But, there are simply too many concerns about the MSAV overstepping its bounds, and picking and choosing its allies regardless of the actual facts for me to listen to this kind of talk. Let's take a break, cool off, and look at the situation again in a few Turnchats.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I added railroad in those plans, between fortfications, but not letting the Chinese benefit from it. Besides, these fortifications are connected by road, so a relocation is less than 6 moves.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
They are nothing but hypocrites, they even vote against themselves
Ashburnham
King
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
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- 827
Provolution said:
Care to expand on that, Provo?
The main argument here seems to be that our troops will act aggressively and provoke a war..no that is not true and a false argument...2. That these peacekeepers will singlehandly stop a likely chinese invasion..no it simply gain time for reinforcements from our contintenet and will act in cooperation with american and russsian troops....time is imperative and by acting on my plan we gain alot of it..by the time the expedition rapid response hits the shore quite a few american and russian cities would be lost thus making it harder to liberate these regions against well entrenched chinses troops...this manouver is not looking for war it is to prevent it and protect our fellow bbrethen and stop chinese aggression
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
In order to win a Diplomatic win, we need to assure the survival of the small nations. So we advocate pure peacekeeping forces within minors likely to be overrun. I am sure we can keep the zulus, Iroqi and the Babylons safe, now we must look for American security and stability, and lessen the potential first strike capability of China.
However, I expect the isolationists to vote against this.
However, I expect the isolationists to vote against this.
blackheart
unenlightened
Isolationists, voting against going into another country, 
yes, that would be in there very nature.
This plan assumes that China WILL go on a bloodthirsty rampage and conquer all of her neighbors. This plane assumes that America and Russia are too weak to defend themselves. This plan assumes that Aztec will not enter the war, or that China will sign an MA against us.
Stationing troops to fight off a hypothetical Chinese invasion isn't peacekeeping, it's one step below a pre-emptive strike. Which is why I advocate a rapid deployment plan. We can deploy against any threat from any nation on the new world, not just China.
yes, that would be in there very nature.This plan assumes that China WILL go on a bloodthirsty rampage and conquer all of her neighbors. This plane assumes that America and Russia are too weak to defend themselves. This plan assumes that Aztec will not enter the war, or that China will sign an MA against us.
Stationing troops to fight off a hypothetical Chinese invasion isn't peacekeeping, it's one step below a pre-emptive strike. Which is why I advocate a rapid deployment plan. We can deploy against any threat from any nation on the new world, not just China.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Blackheart, prepare your contingency plans on a practical operational level, with troop numbers, maps, turns it will take to get to certain spots, military analysis and so on, and we will poll your option. It is an en to rhetoric, now put your ideas to the test.
As soon as we get nationalism, we will poll this.
As soon as we get nationalism, we will poll this.
Nobody
Gangster
How would the citizens of japanatika react if china sent forces to the zulu border to counter our agression.
blackheart
unenlightened
Provolution said:
At this time both plans are simply theories. Neither of them have been filled. I will present a plan, but I think it is up to the MSAV to fill the void.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Blackheart, we fill our void, you fill yours. We will however poll both.
blackheart
unenlightened
Nobody said:
I'd invite them over for a cup of tea
Ashburnham
King
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2004
- Messages
- 827
Well said, blackheart.
My biggest objection to this proposal is that you are assuming who our enemies and allies will be on Atarashika. As of right now, China is not our enemy. America is not our friend. The MSAV is simply assuming that these nations will fall into these catagories, even though they have no proof of it. There is a clear bias against China in this discussion, one that I feel invalidates any strategic advice that could be offered. There have been repeated references to the Cold War, saying that China and Japanatica are rivals. Not so. The USA and USSR were ideologically opposed enemies. What do we have against the Chinese? Nothing. Nothing except the fact that they are the second-best nation in our world.
I would like to see an end to the MSAV's biased appraisals of our neighbors. They are exceeding their authority by arbitrarily designating nations as friends or enemies regardless of the opinions of the rest of us Japanatican citizens. It's not the MSAV's place to decide who were are in cooperation and competition with, and I would like to see it stop immediately.
My biggest objection to this proposal is that you are assuming who our enemies and allies will be on Atarashika. As of right now, China is not our enemy. America is not our friend. The MSAV is simply assuming that these nations will fall into these catagories, even though they have no proof of it. There is a clear bias against China in this discussion, one that I feel invalidates any strategic advice that could be offered. There have been repeated references to the Cold War, saying that China and Japanatica are rivals. Not so. The USA and USSR were ideologically opposed enemies. What do we have against the Chinese? Nothing. Nothing except the fact that they are the second-best nation in our world.
I would like to see an end to the MSAV's biased appraisals of our neighbors. They are exceeding their authority by arbitrarily designating nations as friends or enemies regardless of the opinions of the rest of us Japanatican citizens. It's not the MSAV's place to decide who were are in cooperation and competition with, and I would like to see it stop immediately.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
MSAV has all rights to look at military scenarios, we assess the security situation and national interest of Japanatica (Diplomatic Vicotry) present our view to Foreign Affairs Ministry, and then they discuss and poll our future actions. Ashburnham, you are in no position to censor our military planning. I am going to talk to FA about their strategy for a diplomatic victory, and propose overseas bases where appropriate. Ashburnham, you are overstretching your limits by denying us to DISCUSS this issue in the forum.
also, China has conducted an extermination of Germany, something we never did.
We intend to return foreign workers as well. Ashburnham, let us plan, and not seek to veto our planning, vetoing planning is futile. We will discuss, plan then consult, and then poll, in that order, I cannot see Ashburnhams veto in that equation.
I also eait for Foreign Affairs to make a study of the military intelligence and geopolitics of Atarashika, and then assess who will threaten which nations and what power balance we seek to achieve. Ashburnham, bring along your appeasment friends, and think thank some on what powerbalance on Atarashika you seek, if you seek any.
also, China has conducted an extermination of Germany, something we never did.
We intend to return foreign workers as well. Ashburnham, let us plan, and not seek to veto our planning, vetoing planning is futile. We will discuss, plan then consult, and then poll, in that order, I cannot see Ashburnhams veto in that equation.
I also eait for Foreign Affairs to make a study of the military intelligence and geopolitics of Atarashika, and then assess who will threaten which nations and what power balance we seek to achieve. Ashburnham, bring along your appeasment friends, and think thank some on what powerbalance on Atarashika you seek, if you seek any.
blackheart
unenlightened
Provo. What Ashburnham says bears weight. You've already making WARPLANS against 2 seperate neutral nations. It isn't MSAV's job to decide who our enemies and friends are. Planning for something that is a prelude to war is futile, just declare war if you want that.This is one of those situations where we should just wait and see what happens. America or Russia might get an advantage with a tech lead. FA can't determine who will go to war with who, because there is no such info from the game. Let the new world balance itself out. We don't have the knowledge or are in the position to determine the balance of power.
Appeasment friends? Are you making things up?
Appeasment friends? Are you making things up?
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Not Warplans, Defense Plans. We know more or less we need to keep the balance over there. You just want to sit back and let it unfold, that is true isolationism.
FA can determine whose independence we will guarantee. When nationalism comes up, that is an option, and we will see some MPPs. Blackheart and Ashburnham, see you in the polls.
FA can determine whose independence we will guarantee. When nationalism comes up, that is an option, and we will see some MPPs. Blackheart and Ashburnham, see you in the polls.
