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Stationing Troops overseas

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by ali, Nov 14, 2004.

  1. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    LOL "whose independence we will guarantee" Oh yes so now the imperailism and world domination comes out. :lol: :lol:

    No, we don't know we need to keep the balance over there. America and Russia aren't little children that need to be held by the hand. They know what to do. I'm saying we can't micromanage the situation.

    Call them what you want, your "plans" call for a strike against neutral China and alliance with America. This isn't considering that neither are our friends and that they don't hate each other.
     
  2. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Again, see you in the polls
     
  3. Crimso

    Crimso ...aaaaaagh!

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    That is the best thing I've heard all day. You own this thread.
     
  4. Sir Donald III

    Sir Donald III Emperor

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    :hammer:

    Ok, I have a new idea.

    The problem is "assuming which nation will turn on which" and "rapid deployment".

    If it wasn't for the fact that America was researching MT the same time we were researching Steam, I would've said that the Russians held the largest mid-term threat, standing to absorb the chinese Homelands and the rest of the continent, eliminating Azteca, and pushing China and America back to Germany, via their Cossacks.

    But as of now, regardless of who we help, we have No real way of getting reinforcemnts to propoer positions within 5 turns. The "Oceans of the Sun" protect our continent, yet hinder movement to the other.

    Therefore, I rpopose this option:


    Note that hill SW of Salsburg where our Troops would "land".

    Currently, it is still not within China's Cultural Borders.

    We could estabish a Base Of Operational Strategic (and) Tactical Enabling Response. (Hey, you try something better with those last 5 letters.)
    This base would be our springboard to China, Russia, and perhaps America, in the absence of any island bases.

    Of course, this would violate the Maralyn Doctrine.
     
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    President SD3

    Great Idea

    Not violate the Marilyn Doctrine, but their Marilyn Doctrine if they got any. This could be a first step till Foreign Affairs has figured out who is our friends or not. So, until we know what Foreign Affairs is doing of alliance building, we can establish here first, in case HMS Daveshack does not find any on its way NW.
     
  6. ali

    ali Prince

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    Hold on a minute i do not plan to deply these troops for a invasion force to invade and conquer China....please ppl I AND THE MSAV DO NOT WISH TO INVADE CHINA...we simple wish to defend these nations if a invasion occurs than we will defend against it I do not want the deployment of these troops to act aggressively in any way at all please understand that if the citzens do not wish to deply on any chinese border we will not we will simply deply it in inner Russia/America/Aztecs again I emphasis I do not wish to extend our empire in any military way at all. I simply wish to provide a hihger chance of survival for our weaker nations what annoys me is that so many ppl "*****ing" about lets stop attacking weaker nations and finally a sure plan comes up to defend these nations so they may remain free and automanious and you guys go no way lets face it at the moment china is one big nation that obviosuly on a path of imperalism and military expansion....I will soon requesting to the FA to begin a series of trade embargoes against china and block them from any economic power....in regards to a likely chinese invasion we will not only push it back but liberate the occupational cities and give them back to there rightful owners in the unlikely event we capture a few chinese cities will be divided among the allied armies in which Japan will get none but to compensate for our allies losses and to cripple china from waging war...it will be short sighted and stupid to think that a invasion is not forthcomming.
    regards ali
     
  7. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Ali

    I think they are more after me than you for other reasons, so beware they do this for political and not strategic reasons. See how little they really care for maintaining the power balance in Atarashika.
     
  8. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    Exactly. That's all I'm saying. Foreign Affairs can decide what countries we should protect or not. But, this discussion is about the MSAV making those decisions. And that is a breach of their authority. It's not the MSAV's place to choose who we should deploy against. We as a people decide that, and then the MSAV makes plans from there.

    The contingancy plans you set up for Kyouri were fine, because you looked at each nation equally and assessed each threat with equal weight. However, with this proposal your are unfairly biasing your plans based on preconcived notions of the countries in question. That's not how our Military should work.
     
  9. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Our geopolitical map shows that China has many Russian and American enclaves, and China will surely win a military conflict based on sheer numbers. However, we are merely providing a military perception of the issue and our plans, and we already dsicarded our Aztec plan. We are to develop plans until the public supports one. AND ashburnham, this keeps the interest of the non-pacifist players intact without going to war, so this DG does not die away in buildqueues and philantrophy.
     
  10. MOTH

    MOTH Emperor

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    From our knowledge of the game, we know that Russia and China will likely come to blows some day. We also know it is likely that America will be attacked by one or the other at some point in time. What we don't know now is who is likely to have the edge when these wars start.

    We can peacefully interfere if we can build a wall with the our soldiers (holding hands singing 'We are the World'). The key to this will be to have ROPs with every nation in the new world as possible and by having a few actual cities to gain some limited territory acting as bases.

    if we act quickly we could establish 3 bases:
    1. Near Bengal - This is as far South as any unclaimed land currently available. We need to act very fast as cultural expansions could quickly gain this territory
    2. Near Russian coal in the heart of the jungle. This would gain a coal and a spice. We have 20-30 turns to claim this location.
    3. In the former German lands. We could possibly claim a Dyes or an Ivory.

    Each city would need to rush a temple, a barracks, and if applicable a harbor. Each would be cutoff and at continual risk. That's why I like it, the continued risk will help keep the game interesting.
     
  11. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I agree MOTH, a frontline cultural war, but do not forget we want fortifications within client states in order to shift the tides at will on the order from FA and people.
    If ashburnham and Blackheart, we can even do as the Dutch UN force in Srebrenica, or the Belgian UN Force in Rwanda, simply watch. Or we can save the nation where we have fortifications should the people of Japanatica want it.
     
  12. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Yes, attack whoever opposes your plans for conquest as voracious trolls. Good job at being mature. We are not that petty, you're just that paranoid.

    @Ali

    You still don't get what I'm saying do you? THERE IS NO GUARANTEE CHINA WILL BE OUR ENEMY. For all we know they could turn out to be allies against the Russians, Americans, or Aztec. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE AMERICA WILL BE WEAK AND OUR ALLIES. Pre-emptive strike shouldn't even be an option at this point, they're neutral towards and have not shown any aggression towards us or anyone else on the new world. Purely planning for a Chinese invasion of America is like planning for Nuclear Holocaust in the 1500s.
     
  13. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Blackheart

    This was not even a plan of conquest, but defensive bases. You seem to send the flak in my general direction, regardless of who proposes it from MSAV. Think twice before you call me paranoid, I have merely pointed to two singular individuals that target me for criticism since we disagree on some issues and let the rest go. I liked how certain players like MOTH and others turned this from criticism to analysis, and saw Tenochtitlan as a real issue and now we investigate it. MSAVs job is to present challenges, propose a military solution, and pass the issue on to the next department or body to deal with it, then they return it to us if the military mean is required.
    You blackheart, dilute that process by targeting MSAV for criticism, in place of passing the ball. Again, I only see this from you and Epimethius.

    Ashburnham I disagree with on some policy issues, and he uses the word illegally too broadly (even on discusions), but he is not on a campaign like you.
     
  14. ali

    ali Prince

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    these plans are simply defence plans no bases will be used for a springboard to invade any nation that seems to be your main argument ppl whom oppose this idea once again I or the MSAV plans for a major invasion we simply wish to defend against one and not act aggressively.....In my opinion a chinese invasion of her neigbours is quite high..very high..this opinion was clearly expressed by the majority of the ppl when Germany was invaded where it was feared that china will systemacially conquer all her neighbours to merge into a strong empire that could defeat us in our final victory....We need to maintain the balance of power in Atarashika, which means protecting smaller nations against the agresion of bigger ones, since the second largest hardly would aid in a diplowin. America is an obvious ally. especially since their UU will be key in the end game.
     
  15. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    You see that's my main problem with this. You're just assuming China will invade. As Nobody has said before, how would we like it if China parked troops in Zululand waiting for us?

    What? I advocated investigating Tenochtitlan before taking any further actions. What MSAV proposed was a war that had nothing to back it. Criticism is received where criticism is due.
     
  16. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

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    How about we make some freinds before we plan how to defend them. Sure people see china as the big bad guys because of what they did to Germany. But we did just as bad to Rome. It was a time of expansion. Every civ did things they are not proud of. But since then china has done nothing agressive at all.

    China is a soverigen nation, who are we to tell them who they can attack and who they can't. America arnt our freinds, why should we stick up for them. The people of japantika pay taxs so the military will defend them not a bunch of white skined fools (we are more yellow) on the other contient.

    Also our people just voted in polls that if france or zulu attack us we are not fight back, then why should we go and defend another country.

    China has done nothing remotly agressive to us. If we move troops to there border. it will take ages to bring them home for upgrades and someone will say "there going obsolete" lets just send them in for glory.

    peace, give it a chance
     
  17. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Oh that is a myth! Japanese are so white.
     
  18. ali

    ali Prince

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    okay im willing to concede and not deply troops alnog a border but in the interior os Russa/America......im not saying china is a enemy im not targeting them im simply preparing for the worse and that is china making a great conquest......why dont we repatriate some Roman cities than??? hhmm..no?
     
  19. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

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    I like to think as rome as a civil war. It was natural. It was the beging of the game, we were all cave man like. There was only a little room and we needed it. If we hadnt of taken rome we would be the weakest civ. It was survial of the fittest.

    These days we are a early modern society we have universitys. People have learnt whats right and wrong. And sending troops overseas to defend another country When the people have just decided we dont even want to defend ourselves. is WRONG
     
  20. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    OK, you seriously are not getting what I'm trying to say here! You're deploying troops against Chinese aggression, WHEN THERE IS NONE!!! That would be like China deploying troops in Babylon to fend off our aggression, when there IS NONE!!! Stationing troops in the water as a rapid deployment force is another matter, as it can react to any threat from any nation.
     

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