Status of PTW art not included in C3C

[embryodead]

Hello,
It was reported that not all PTW extras are included in C3C. We were told that C3C will contain PTW, but now it seems that it wasn't 100% true and C3C owner will not be able to play PTW mod that uses PTW extras (*many* of them do). That is really bad, since no one will buy PTW now, as it comes with C3C. So much units are lost, PTW mods become inaccesible to C3C owners and we modders suddenly are stripped out of resources we could happily use so far... unless we are allowed to redistribute them with a mod.
So now, after C3C is released, I'd like to know what is the current status of PTW art not included in C3C? Is it lost or can we finally include them in our modpacks?

EDIT: oh BTW if this all is not true (ie. if someone who has installed C3C over vanilla Civ3 without PTW, can say that he has ALL CIV3PTW/extras at place) then ignore my babbling

 

[CanuckSoldier]

My understanding is that the only thing dropped are the PTW fan scenarios. All the art and movie folders still seem to be there at least in the NA release. I've heard that the ROTW disk had to cut a little deeper to get all the language versions on it. I know that the PTW editor is missing from it...but who wants it anyway. I have both a Civ3/PTW/C3C install and a clean Civ3/C3C install on another machine, I'll try and see if there any differences and get back to you.

CS

P.S. I'm not a modder, if you tell me what are the important folders/files I'll take a detailed look at those.

 

[kring]

I found a lot of PtW stuff missing after installing Conquests. This was stuff that was on my computer before the install. Fortunately, I noticed before installing the second Conquests CD on my other computer. I did a complete reinstall of PtW on it before installing C3C. I made a copy of the PtW folder. Then, I ran each patch in order, making copies of the PtW after each patch. I installed C3C. The only things left are to burn the PtW folder copies to CD and move any missing files back into the PtW folder. The extras folder from PtW has been gutted. Almost all, maybe all, of the Fan scenarios are gone from my PtW folder.

I doubt you will see much difference between a C3C clean install (without PtW previously installed) and a PtW/C3C install, other than a few empty folders in the PtW install that aren't in the C3C.

I don't mind them not being on the C3C CD, but I do mind them being zapped from my HD.

 

[robcheng]

Originally posted by kring
I don't mind them not being on the C3C CD, but I do mind them being zapped from my HD.

Agreed. And thanks for the warning; I guess I'll need to back up all the dino graphics (damn, I just realized this also means the graphics for the demons in my Mini Magic Mod are probably broken, since I just put things like "..\..\..\..\..\..\Civ3PTW\extras\Dinosaurs\art\units\trex\trex_victory.wav" in the .ini files (to minimize the zip file size, and to avoid potential copyright issues that might be involved in redistributing those graphic files). This is really annoying if it does in fact delete folders that already exist on your system!!!

 

[CanuckSoldier]

That's odd, I know it doesn't replace the ptw.exe as it still looks for the PTW disk at startup, not the C3C disk as a Civ3/C3C PTW launch does.

CS

 

[kring]

Update:

So far, the extras folder still has the sub folders for: European Terrain, Winter Terrain, WWII, and Prehistoric, but they are all now empty, except for any subfolders (but the subfolders only have subfolders or are empty themselves) they held.

I don't have my other computer on currently so I can't compare the missing and non missing files. I will check out the differences later to see what I need to add back in.

There are a few empty folders (10, including Snoopy and Warpstorm's terrain) and subfolders in the PtW/Scenarios folder.

 

[aeldrik]

Hy Embryohead, you might have checked, I started a thread yesterday with the same topic.... "not all of PTW"...

 

[embryodead]

@aeldirk
I know, actually it was the place when I've read about it first. I started new thread about copyright status to get attention of whoever knows it. This is the only solution - if they allow us to treat PTW art just like Civ3 art.

 

[aeldrik]

ok, I get what you mean... well then, the people with the right contacts might transmit it...

 

[warpstorm]

Consider it done (transmitting it, that is).

 

[CanuckSoldier]

If you weren't aware Kring, patches are entirely in Firaxis hands, BA is out of the Civ picture now. This might effect who your transmitting this message too.

Cheers CS

 

[aeldrik]

There has been an answer from firaxis on this subject:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=68235&goto=newpost

 

[kring]

Originally posted by warpstorm
Consider it done (transmitting it, that is).

Originally posted by CanuckSoldier
If you weren't aware Kring, patches are entirely in Firaxis hands, BA is out of the Civ picture now. This might effect who your transmitting this message too.

Cheers CS

CS, I think you meant Warpstorm.

This is what Gobi wrote at Apolyton with my response. I had PtW installed on both computers before installing C3C.

Originally posted by Gobi Bear
BreakAway games developed the Installshield scripts for Conquests.

We do not DELETE any PTW files from your disk.

However, unless you have the GOLD version of Civ 3, which is guaranteed to have Civ3 and PTW patched to the latest patch, we DO go ahead and reinstall PTW on your machine.

So if you had any mods that CHANGED ORIGINAL PTW FILES, those mods will be overwritten by the original files. The extra content (the user-made files that came with PTW and the special units made by Firaxis) will not be touched however.

You can see why we have to do it this way. Conquests depends on graphics and text files from both Civ3 and Play The World; we want to make sure you will have a working Conquests game after the install is complete.

Gobi, whether it is intentional or not, C3C DOES delete PtW files. I have checked on two computers. Both had PtW installed before installing C3C. After installing C3C, the loss of files occurs. Neither computer had any modified PtW files. In fact, on one computer, I did a complete reinstall and every patch update (in order) of PtW before I installed C3C. I am not the only one that has experienced this effect.

On the one computer, I saved copies of the PtW folder from each patch. In comparing the current (post C3C) PtW folder, I have 285 MB vs the 1.27f PtW folder which has 485 MB used. The 1.27f folder was made immediately after patching to 1.27f and has no saved games or any other additional files in it.

I don't know why some people lost the PtW files and some people didn't.

FWIW, I completely uninstalled (including the C3C beta patches) the Beta version of C3C on both machines before installing C3C. On one I did a clean reinstall of PtW including the PtW patches. I made no changes or deletions to PtW files on either computer.

 

[robcheng]

kring, were either of those two computers running the beta conquests? Did you remove the patches before installing the production conquests?

 

[kring]

Originally posted by robcheng
kring, were either of those two computers running the beta conquests? Did you remove the patches before installing the production conquests?

Originally posted by kring



FWIW, I completely uninstalled (including the C3C beta patches) the Beta version of C3C on both machines before installing C3C. On one I did a clean reinstall of PtW including the PtW patches. I made no changes or deletions to PtW files on either computer.

Yes, they were both beta test machines. One has Windows XP Pro, the other XP Home.

I was editing the above in when you posted. I also removed the C3C folder (and the PtW folder) after uninstalling the beta C3C and all beta patches.

 

[Al Zan]

what is missing?

 

[Isak]

A loss of 200 mb sounds outrageously high. I'm not even sure InstallShield could do that (delete all those files) without hogging up your computer for hours on end.

Could someone with the game download the utility TreePrint, install it, and use it to take 'snapshots' (in TXT files) of the Civ3PTW folder, before and after the installation of C3C. Once the utility is installed, you just have to right-click a folder in Windows Explorer and there'll be a new option available, to *Tree Print*. Make sure to go into the options and check the 'Include Filenames' option.

The program then generates a list of the files and folders. Once you have two of those, you can compare them in an editor, or using DOS fc command (or post the TXT files here, and I'll do it for you )

 

[Isak]

I finally got hold of the game, and tested following my own guidelines above.

The result is:

Installing C3C on top of a Civ3+PtW (with 1.27f) installation, removes absolutely nothing. It in fact adds a few files to the PtW folders. Those files are in the Art/Terrain folder

craters.pcx
LMHills.pcx
lwCSO.pcx
lwOOO.pcx
lwSSS.pcx
lxdgc.pcx
lxdgp.pcx
lxdpc.pcx
lxggc.pcx
lxpgc.pcx
lxtgc.pcx
marsh.pcx
Volcanos.pcx
LMForests.pcx
LMMountains.pcx
TerrainBuildings.PCX
Volcanos forests.pcx
Volcanos jungles.pcx
Volcanos-snow.pcx

That's all - nothing is removed.

A user without PtW installed will be lacking most of the units from the Extras folders (though I do believe all of the Feudal Japan units are being used), but if you already have those installed, they'll still be there.

I don't know what happened to your installs kring, but it must have been some sort of freak accident. Using WinXP, that's the sort of stuff that seems to happen all the time.