steal a babylon acadamy

[civzombie]

Last night I started a new game to discover that my closest neighbor was babylon.

I founded my second city next to his capital, while also guerilla fighting him in order to spawn a great general. I then flipped his acadamy with the great general so that the acadamy could be worked by the second city. I was suprised that it remained 8 science per turn.

I think it might have been a better strategy to delay going down the tradition tree in order to get the free great general from the militaristic policy tree. I could have gotten the 8 science per turn much sooner with that method. I was worried about delaying the tradition finisher, but on the other hand 8 science per turn at say turn 35 is a lot! Any thoughts on whether that would have been better?

 

[Vintage Port]

Tough to say depending on Map/Difficulty/victory condition etc.

But generally I would stick with filling Trad and then move on to another policy tree other than Honor. Unless you are warmongering and want to try honor out. Even then rationalism to keep up in science is probably a better choice.

I would just keep war'ing with neighbouring Civs and you will continue to get more Great Generals as they come pretty quickly at first. Picking social policies strictly to get a GG is a bit of a waste IMO when regular war can accomplish that. Tradition policies and the finisher is just too good to delay in most cases.

 

[Monthar]

If ya want to really ramp up this tactic, do it as Korea so you get an extra 2 science out of that academy. Plus you'll get 2 science from the citadel.

 

[Light Cleric]

I think it would have just been better to kill him and take Bablyon

 

[Vintage Port]

I think it would have just been better to kill him and take Bablyon

And LC wins with this answer.

 

[BBMorti]

I think it would have just been better to kill him and take Bablyon

My first thought, too haha.

Also from my experience the babylon AI tends to just bulb his GS right away.. I thought it happened 100% of the time, but after reading this OP I guess they only do it 99% of the time.
I am glad Diety babylon doesn't always plant, don't get me wrong.

 

[Light Cleric]

My first thought, too haha.

Also from my experience the babylon AI tends to just bulb his GS right away.. I thought it happened 100% of the time, but after reading this OP I guess they only do it 99% of the time.
I am glad Diety babylon doesn't always plant, don't get me wrong.

I very rarely see them plant, either, but I think it may have something to do with how the Bablyon AI tends to take FOREVER to get to Writing. They have free Pottery, they can start researching Writing on turn 0, and yet like turn 45 will roll around and I'll see Nebby doesn't have Writing researched yet. Maybe by the time they pop it they think it's better to bulb it?

 

[BBMorti]

I very rarely see them plant, either, but I think it may have something to do with how the Bablyon AI tends to take FOREVER to get to Writing. They have free Pottery, they can start researching Writing on turn 0, and yet like turn 45 will roll around and I'll see Nebby doesn't have Writing researched yet. Maybe by the time they pop it they think it's better to bulb it?

Yep, I noticed that too. To be honest it seems poorly optimized.. but if AI Babylon always beelined writing, and planted their GS, it would be one of the worst civs on diety to play against. It is almost like it is a balance thing.

 

[civzombie]

Just to clarify, it was an immortal difficulty level game.

Also, their capital was on a hill surrounded by river. Between the difficulty level, the terrain, their bowman, their city walls, I thought I could get the tile much sooner as per above than by taking them over.

I also had the opportunity to take two workers with one scout, so the early guerilla war basically ruined them.

Didn't realize how rare it was to find an acadamy. Ohh, and good point about korea, I wish that had been my civ! (I am austria)

 

[Catan_Settler]

Yeah it's weird how rarely you will find an Academy outside an AI Babylon. I am always wanting to target them early and steal an academy, but I have literally never seen one planted by the AI Babylon. Oddly enough, I got one in my last game by invading.... wait for it........ Hiawatha's, not capital, but 3rd city. Umm, ok then.

 

[Justice1337]

Funny thing, my experience is the exact opposite. On Emperor difficulty, I used to find civ's like Rome with Academies down by turn 80, way before Education. I always figured it had something to do with them getting Liberty and a ton of easy policies. On a large map I will find 2-3 AI's with phantom Academies next to their capital.

But come to think of it, I have not seen this yet on Immortal or Diety. Maybe some patch came along or some other thing.

 

[flairin]

Good job!! A few months ago I had this idea of Babs as neighbor. So I set up a series of games with him as one of the civs in advanced setup. But he never planted his damn scientist!!

 

[The Pilgrim]

Yep, I noticed that too. To be honest it seems poorly optimized.. but if AI Babylon always beelined writing, and planted their GS, it would be one of the worst civs on diety to play against. It is almost like it is a balance thing.

A horrible (failing) balancing if that's the case. Babylon should be one of the hardest AI to deal with, it has the most potential, while in practice it's one of the most pathetic ones.

 

[budweiser]

I think it would have just been better to kill him and take Bablyon

You cant kill him by t35. So, GG from Honor, steal it, then kill him is best. I like the Korea idea.

Also a GG for Sweden first can give 90 points to any CS near you that you happen to like. Many options on this one.

 

[budweiser]

If ya want to really ramp up this tactic, do it as Korea so you get an extra 2 science out of that academy. Plus you'll get 2 science from the citadel.

This move is called monkey steals the cheese in Tang Soo Do.

 

[Light Cleric]

You cant kill him by t35. So, GG from Honor, steal it, then kill him is best. I like the Korea idea.

Also a GG for Sweden first can give 90 points to any CS near you that you happen to like. Many options on this one.

Killing him by turn 50-something and not wasting 2 social policies on stealing an academy that you'll be getting when you take the city would be best. And are you really going to work the Citadel in the early game?

I also don't get what Sweden has to do with anything because this was about planting the Citadel Besides going early Warrior Code and gifting the GG is really bad IMO, 90 influence in the early game is much easier to obtain through gold/barb camp quests than later on and the benefits of allying that 1 CS for its Ancient/Classical era bonuses isn't worth 2 social policies of questionable utility.

 

[budweiser]

Who's gonna take Immortal Babylon by t50(ish) without bothering with Honor? If I was gonna do that, I would use Honor for sure and then keep going. All those extra turns from working the stolen academy could be used to research Iron or HBR or Math for decent weapons at 2000BC.

 

[Light Cleric]

I said turn 50ish, not turn 50. If it was a human player or Deity I'd say forget it, but never underestimate the stupidity of an AI, considering a big part of this discussion is how a lot of the time the AI is too dumb to plant their academy in the first place

 

[The Pilgrim]

Who's gonna take Immortal Babylon by t50(ish) without bothering with Honor?

Hmm... Everyone?
The real question is who's gonna bother with Honor no matter what the circumstances are, but I'm surely not going to revive this debate once again.

 

[nanomage]

Well it's sure a good use for an early GG as I see it, but I doubt it's worth to go Honor specifically to do that steal thing. For super-early rush with archers I would prefer Liberty, because it frees up some hammers to use on archers, but maybe that's just me.