Steam - love or hate?

[SewerStarFish]

My problem with Steam is it's such an unnecessary resource hog. Yeah my rig is a little older but it runs everything else just fine. Yet as I sit here not having play CiV since last night, Steam is using 146936 K of VM, more than double the next closest program: iexplore; it's second on Mem Usage too. I had to tell it not to run all the time and even then I still have to hunt it down in TaskManager to kill it after I'm done with CiV.

At least Impulse only starts and runs when I click it.

 

[spoooq]

Steam is using 146936 K of VM

Virtual memory is irrelevant. Look at resident memory.

 

[skallben]

If I download and install the new Firefox, I do not want Microsofts Outlook Express in a bundle, forced install. If I am a vegetarian and order a vegetarian meal, I do not want meat "bundle" on top of my delicious thai-wok.

The problem is the principle of getting stuff forced down your throat when you do not want it.

In reality, it is not that big of a deal, except if your intented computer of installation lacks internet.

It is very easy for someone who actually like and use Steam to ask "why the haters are so negative", that is completely missing the point. I bought Civilization, not Steam. Simple.

 

[walls99]

Woo, capitalism!

I can't even count the number of games I bought off of Steam. I have yet to finish 90% of them. I have yet to start 50% of them.

 

[Wardancing]

If I download and install the new Firefox, I do not want Microsofts Outlook Express in a bundle, forced install. If I am a vegetarian and order a vegetarian meal, I do not want meat "bundle" on top of my delicious thai-wok.

The problem is the principle of getting stuff forced down your throat when you do not want it.

In reality, it is not that big of a deal, except if your intented computer of installation lacks internet.

It is very easy for someone who actually like and use Steam to ask "why the haters are so negative", that is completely missing the point. I bought Civilization, not Steam. Simple.

Exactly, thank you.

Also, doesnt steam let you 'link' nonsteam games? There is no need to make game companies bundle if people can do it by free will, right? If the product is good, people will come to it, right?

Im also very sick of people mentioning different types of DRM as being worst than steam, and then others saying DRM isnt really the point of steam.

Whether steam is ment to be DRM or not, isnt the point. Whether steam is more annoying than another DRM isnt the point either.

Because one thing is less 'evil' than another doesnt mean its not 'evil'. No im not calling steam evil, replace that word with whatever you want to call it. If it were food, you could say, because one food isnt as sour as another, doesnt make it any less sour due to comparison.

 

[Maktaka]

Also, doesnt steam let you 'link' nonsteam games?

No, it lets you add a shortcut to the game in your games list, but this provides none of the functionality of Steam to that game. Either CiV is integrated with Steam, which means Steam installation is required, or they have to provide a separate system(s) for patch distribution, matchmaking, online distribution, DRM, friends lists, etc.

 

[milk steak]

If I download and install the new Firefox, I do not want Microsofts Outlook Express in a bundle, forced install. If I am a vegetarian and order a vegetarian meal, I do not want meat "bundle" on top of my delicious thai-wok.

The problem is the principle of getting stuff forced down your throat when you do not want it.

In reality, it is not that big of a deal, except if your intented computer of installation lacks internet.

It is very easy for someone who actually like and use Steam to ask "why the haters are so negative", that is completely missing the point. I bought Civilization, not Steam. Simple.

Who exactly is "forcing it down your throat"? The same people that are "forcing" you to purchase and play CiV?

I don't understand this argument. They're not forcing you to do anything; If you don't agree with the move to the Steam platform, then don't purchase and play the game.

 

[Wardancing]

No, it lets you add a shortcut to the game in your games list, but this provides none of the functionality of Steam to that game. Either CiV is integrated with Steam, which means Steam installation is required, or they have to provide a separate system(s) for patch distribution, matchmaking, online distribution, DRM, friends lists, etc.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I assumed the patch distribution, matchmaking stuff would be there [edit: on your list]. Online distribution i dont really understand, if you already installed the game and 'link' as i said, why would you need steam to distribute it online?

Friends list of steam doesnt work until you get into a game? You cant chat to friends until after you get into a steam-only game? Lol, they should check out some other social gaming software, they work better than this.

 

[milk steak]

Friends list of steam doesnt work until you get into a game? You cant chat to friends until after you get into a steam-only game? Lol, they should check out some other social gaming software, they work better than this.

That's not true... I can access my friends list and chat outside of games. In fact, most of the time I play MP, I don't load CiV up -- I simply join game through the friends list interface straight from my desktop.

 

[Wardancing]

That's not true... I can access my friends list and chat outside of games. In fact, most of the time I play MP, I don't load CiV up -- I simply join game through the friends list interface straight from my desktop.

Yup, thats my point, i can do the same thing with Qtracker in a ton of games, the difference being, Qtracker is a choice. In reality, what exactly is steam adding to Civ? The achievements? Arent these defunct once you use mods?

 

[milk steak]

Yup, thats my point, i can do the same thing with Qtracker in a ton of games, the difference being, Qtracker is a choice. In reality, what exactly is steam adding to Civ? The achievements? Arent these defunct once you use mods?

Ah. Well, I can agree that Steam doesn't really add much to CiV (other than easily being able to join MP games), but I don't see how Steam is any less of a choice than any other software choice. If you decide you don't like Steam, you definitely do not have to install it. But you also forfeit being able to play CiV and other Steam-exclusive games. Sort of like the saying 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'. But they're most certainly not forcing you to eat the cake. You still have a choice to not install it.

 

[Maktaka]

Online distribution is because in this day and age you need SOME kind of online distributor for PC games, it's simply a given or you're going to lose out on a big chunk of sales. Using Steam for this has the advantage of making ONE version of the game to manage. You don't have the retail boxed copy, the DirectDownload copy, the Steam copy, the Impulse copy, the European retail copy, the Russian retail copy, etc, each of which will require separate patch management, and because there is no central system to do this, you'll also need to setup your own server to handle matchmaking, friends lists, etc. Using Steam saves money for 2K, provides a consistent and large feature set to the customers, and makes patch distribution easier (and thus faster) for the future.

 

[zonk]

Virtual memory is irrelevant. Look at resident memory.

That isn't exactly true -- thrashing isn't anything close to the problem it once was, and maybe it's just me showing my age -- but Steam is a VM hog and once upon a time, high VM footprint usually meant you got a little too happy with your paging and probably weren't dealing with your memory needs very efficiently.

The continued growth of memory, dawn of dual cores to better utilize it, etc means that it's not the big red flag it once was... and again, call me old fashioned, but just because you've got a bigger house doesn't mean you ought to get sloppy and leave your crap laying all over the place wherever you decide to plop it down.

I'm too archaic and obsolete to really know whether Steam is truly being most efficient with its allocations or not, but I do know that once upon a time -- a background process dwarfing everything else in VM allocation wasn't "irrelevant".

 

[deanej]

Online distribution is because in this day and age you need SOME kind of online distributor for PC games, it's simply a given or you're going to lose out on a big chunk of sales. Using Steam for this has the advantage of making ONE version of the game to manage. You don't have the retail boxed copy, the DirectDownload copy, the Steam copy, the Impulse copy, the European retail copy, the Russian retail copy, etc, each of which will require separate patch management, and because there is no central system to do this, you'll also need to setup your own server to handle matchmaking, friends lists, etc. Using Steam saves money for 2K, provides a consistent and large feature set to the customers, and makes patch distribution easier (and thus faster) for the future.

If publishers cared enough about this problem that it was a factor, we wouldn't have the steam copy, the impulse copy, and the different retail copies. In fact, having all these different versions is quite silly. If they cared about it, they would release ONE version of the game that would work regardless of where you bought it. Think about it for a second. If you buy a game a best buy, you don't get a special best buy version that's different from the one your friend got at walmart. You get the same game. Why is it so different with digital distribution? The answer is, the publishers and distributors want it this way, for whatever reason. There is no good reason for making versions distributor-specific. In fact, aside from the fact that in North America civ4 came on CDs and everywhere else it came on a DVD, there were NO differences between retail versions of civ4 (aside from the special Chinese one, but that was to discourage piracy and so the government would let it be sold). The only reason is DRM crap that shouldn't even be used because all it does is hurt consumers.

 

[Badtz Maru]

I got Steam with HL2 at release, and have been in love with it ever since. I've never had any trouble playing games I bought through them, and there's only been a few times in the last six years or so that I couldn't connect to their service (and one time when I couldn't get offline mode to work without resetting my password due to my own screwing around). I get mad now when there's a game I want that I have to buy a physical copy of, and I've bought old games I already owned copies of on Steam when they were on sale (like Civ4) just to have the Steam version. I know some people have had problems with Steam, but I think they are just a very vocal minority and it is a very reliable and dependable service that I wouldn't want to live without.

 

[Badtz Maru]

I can't even count the number of games I bought off of Steam. I have yet to finish 90% of them. I have yet to start 50% of them.

It's the damn sales. I bought Men of War the other day knowing virtually nothing about it other than it was under $4, relatively recent, and had good graphics. I don't even like RTS games, but it's hard to turn down really great deals and they have them pretty often.

 

[Beef Hammer]

I've had steam since its release and i have been on the valve bandwagon long before, i barely have any issues with steam, and usually those are just when they got maintenance going on. And being able to just purchase and D/L the game in an hour or 2 is just great imo, i used to have a huge collection of boxes and other useless junk that now i don't have to bother with, hell it's all still in my parents basement i bet I easily got 50-60 games in my steam library, and that's just gonna keep on growing.

 

[skallben]

Who exactly is "forcing it down your throat"? The same people that are "forcing" you to purchase and play CiV?

I don't understand this argument. They're not forcing you to do anything; If you don't agree with the move to the Steam platform, then don't purchase and play the game.

It's pretty much inbetween the lines that I want to play the game. Just because a company makes decisions doesnt mean you have to agree with them, does it? Oh I agree my choice of words might not have been optimal but it seems you did not read the entire post so I'll do the nasty and quote myself:

"It is very easy for someone who actually like and use Steam to ask "why the haters are so negative", that is completely missing the point. I bought Civilization, not Steam. Simple. "

Or, I can simplify it even further:

I like Civ, I do not hate Steam, but I do not want Steam.
That is a direct reply to the question stated with this thread.

If I understand you correctly then what you are telling me is "buy or shut up"?
How constructive is that? The world is not binary. By the same logics none of us should voice any complaints whatsoever about the game. The tactical AI is fine, you bought the game.

 

[tom2050]

Using Steam saves money for 2K, provides a consistent and large feature set to the customers, and makes patch distribution easier (and thus faster) for the future.

Good point. Since 2K seems to have trouble balancing their checkbook, and has trouble keeping themselves from going broke, I guess Steam helps them in that way.

 

[Wardancing]

If I understand you correctly then what you are telling me is "buy or shut up"?
How constructive is that? The world is not binary. By the same logics none of us should voice any complaints whatsoever about the game. The tactical AI is fine, you bought the game.