Steam vs. "Normal" Shop

[Aeon221]

Funny how a year or two ago this forum was up in arms about steam.

Now steam is (rightly) viewed as an awesome option.

Also, lol at optical drives. My new computer doesn't have one because they're a pointless waste of space. Instead I have an SSD in that slot.

 

[The_J]

Now steam is (rightly) viewed as an awesome option.

not true .

 

[Maniacal]

I rather meant that the retailers are not cheaper .

The cheapest I have seen games priced at in a retail store is about $10, and even then that is pretty rare and usually just for jewel cases (ie no bigger box). Most of the time the cheapest they get is $19.99 and unless the game is terrible it takes months if not over a year or so until it drops that low. They also rarely put the PC games on sale and the only place I have ever seen used PC games is at second hand stores.

In Europe apparently it is often possible to find a game when it comes out cheaper at a retailer than it is on Steam, but in North America it seems retailers stick to the same pricing almost universally (eventual price dropping is entirely different though).

 

[anandus]

I rather meant that the retailers are not cheaper .

Ah, but sometimes they are.
Once I even ordered a game in a German () shop, because it was cheapest there, including p&p (compared to internet and the rest of Europe).
The box was in German, but the game was in English (or multilingual). It was X3 Terran Conflict.
Especially with Steamworks games it's worth to look around.

Oh, and Civ5 is 4 pound 99 at Gamersgate, by the way. Nice and cheap

 

[qemist]

Ah, but sometimes they are.
Once I even ordered a game in a German () shop, because it was cheapest there, including p&p (compared to internet and the rest of Europe).
The box was in German, but the game was in English (or multilingual). It was X3 Terran Conflict.

For Australian purchasers late last year Civ5 on steam was nearly double the best price at a physical games shop here (something like $89 vs $49).

 

[Selous]

For Australian purchasers late last year Civ5 on steam was nearly double the best price at a physical games shop here (something like $89 vs $49).

best prices (from my memory) on release was $78-79 in the retail shops, $55 from ozgameshop (imported in,takes a couple of weeks) or the $89 or whatever that steam was flogging it of for

i believe that the publishers set these prices to be sold by the various retailers

 

[The_J]

The cheapest I have seen games priced at in a retail store is about $10, and even then that is pretty rare and usually just for jewel cases (ie no bigger box).

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but are you really defending a game for 10$ without a box against a game for $10 with a box o_O?

Most of the time the cheapest they get is $19.99 and unless the game is terrible it takes months if not over a year or so until it drops that low.

...and on Steam?
Anecdotal evidence, but during the last sale i saw a screaming "80% down" for Divinity 2, down to 10$ (or €, whatever) from normally 49.99.
Awesome deal, isn't it?
Pretty much hides the fact that this game has been for sale in retail shops for 10€ for months now (bought it in August...with a big paper box).

So, what you say applies here rather in the other way round .

 

[anandus]

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but are you really defending a game for 10$ without a box against a game for $10 with a box o_O?

It';s interesting, though:
Should the one without the box be cheaper (because it costs less to produce) or should the one without the box be more expensive (because it is easier to get)?

 

[OrsonM]

lets tally them up then, shall we?

Old game, valued at 40 bucks, mid 90s style:

-Comes with a box, manual, jewel case (or several floppies), sometimes even a poster.
-You must get it from the store or order it, so the game must be in stock. (If it's been too long you'll get the valusoft version that has like a cd inside a dvd box and the same CD-key in all of them.)
-You can resell it, specially for collection purposes.
-You can borrow it and trade it, family members can install the game as well.
-Your cd can get scratched, in which case some companies, but not all companies, can get you a new cd (and most game companies are not there anymore).
-Most popular multiplayer games had relaxed copyright protection, hence their popularity.

A new game, valued at 40 bucks, steam style:

-No manual, no box, no jewel case, sometimes you'll get a cheapo PDF manual, but that's because they want you to buy the Brady Guide.
-You can get it from everywhere, so the game is always in season.
-You can't resell it, in fact you don't really "own" the game, so no collectibles either.
-No borrowing, your friend Timmy and your freeloading family better get their own damn copy.
-No scratches on any cd, that game is forever* (*subject to you having an internet connection to install it and sometimes even play it and that Steam is still up and running 10-40 years from now, will Steam still even be around 10 years from now?, there's like what, 10 websites that do exactly the same, how is Steam any better?, most of us have it because it came with Civ V anyways! and what about when they hacked the forum accounts last month?, I had to change all my passwords after that, that's messed up!.
-Most popular multiplayer games charge monthly or in micro-transaction form for that honor. So you know, pay up.


Well, I'm sold, sign me up for that bad boy!

Woooo, Steam party yall!!. wassup wassup ladies!

Gotta go get my wallet...

 

[Maniacal]

For Australian purchasers late last year Civ5 on steam was nearly double the best price at a physical games shop here (something like $89 vs $49).

That happens with pretty much every game that is released in Australia

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but are you really defending a game for 10$ without a box against a game for $10 with a box o_O?

Since you are extremely unlikely to find a boxed game for $10 in most retail stores here, then yes, since it is the better deal. I don't see the problem.

...and on Steam?
Anecdotal evidence, but during the last sale i saw a screaming "80% down" for Divinity 2, down to 10$ (or €, whatever) from normally 49.99.
Awesome deal, isn't it?
Pretty much hides the fact that this game has been for sale in retail shops for 10€ for months now (bought it in August...with a big paper box).

As has been made extremely clear before, retail stores (especially in Europe) seem to be able to set their prices a lot lower (possibly because they need to clear out shelf space and the prices are less directly controlled by the game's publisher) sooner than Steam, but they don't put them on sale for less than $15.

Ten euros is currently ~$13.70 Canadian, but retail stores generally seem to price games in multiples of 5 only (well, minus a few cents of course).

Old game, valued at 40 bucks, mid 90s style:

Mid-90s is the key here, except for The Witcher 2 games including lots of extras have been getting rare for several YEARS! I remember being rather disappointed with Oblivion for coming with just a manual and a paper sleeve for the CD. Though I don't think most people really care about the extras anyway, a good friend of mine keeps giving me the maps and a few other extras from his games and collector's edition whenever he stumbles across them in his closet/storage. Most people seem to lose them or, at the very least, never use them more than once anyway.

-You can resell it, specially for collection purposes.
-You can borrow it and trade it, family members can install the game as well.

Sadly that is becoming less possible these days since used copies sometimes have to pay EA's Project $10 fee for content that only comes with new copies as well as other account based DRM (EA's Origin is starting to copy Steam) and Ubisoft's U-Play bullcrap.

-Most popular multiplayer games had relaxed copyright protection, hence their popularity.

The most popular multiplayer FPS games use Steamworks (Counter Strike, CSS, TF2, CoD: MW2, Blops, MW3) and BF3 uses Origin. Popularity is based more on fun and how many of your friends play it than the DRM.

A new game, valued at 40 bucks, steam style:

If you absolutely must have these then the answer is simple, don't buy a digital copy (especially when new). You're acting like people are saying you should buy all of your games on Steam/digitally, no one is recommending that. The only reason I even have so many digital games is because I paid less than $15 (if not less than $10) for the majority.

-Most popular multiplayer games charge monthly or in micro-transaction form for that honor. So you know, pay up.

Besides map packs I don't see any extra DLCs for many of the most popular multiplayer games (Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc). The only popular one I can think of that does have microtransactions is TF2, and you can get all of the weapons free from playing the game or trading (and many of them are arguable not that much better if at all than the original weapons).

There is also Battlefield Heroes (doesn't use Steam of course) that is free 2 play and you RENT the weapons and upgrades, no idea how popular it is but it is still going and regularly "updated".

MMOs are the only ones that charge monthly fees and they have their own system set up entirely.

 

[OrsonM]

I actually like Steam, but that it helps to erode games in many ways cannot be denied. The "well don't buy it then" approach doesn't really apply when the rest of the industry follows suit (and my how they have).

The most popular multiplayer FPS games use Steamworks (Counter Strike, CSS, TF2, CoD: MW2, Blops, MW3) and BF3 uses Origin. Popularity is based more on fun and how many of your friends play it than the DRM.

Key word being mid-90s, or any point in the 90s if you will (so before steam, which was released in 2003) and I'm talking about the great ones here: Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Starcraft, Red Alert, etc. In one way or another they had a more relaxed approach to copyright, one copy of Starcraft allowed 8 people to play online (!) and in a completely legal fashion as well (now if 8 people want to pay Starcraft 2 they better pay up a combined 360-480 dollars for it... well, for a third of the game). Red Alert had a similar approach, giving you 2 copies of the game (I think Achron is doing that now on Steam now though).

And yes, most people do not care enough for the extras in a game (box, manual, etc). And so did most people with golden age comicbooks (moms across america just threw away those old comic books). With steam buying a game is always an investment only for Valve, but not much for the user (so there's that).

It's kinda like buying those vintage Star Wars toys, but you can't play anywhere else but in the store you bought them from, and since they are not really yours you cannot re-sell them in the future (and if you have Luke and Darth Vader, your friend Timmy will have to get his own damn action figures if he wants to play, as there's an anti-social thing to steam going on sometimes).

However not all is bad, just got Terraria for $2.50 (yay!).

 

[qemist]

best prices (from my memory) on release was $78-79 in the retail shops, $55 from ozgameshop (imported in,takes a couple of weeks) or the $89 or whatever that steam was flogging it of for

Your memory may be more exact than mine. I think we agree that Steam was the most expensive option at the time.

i believe that the publishers set these prices to be sold by the various retailers

I think that would be unlawful. In any case, why set the price for a 6 hour steam download to be much higher than the price to have a physical disk (with out-of-date manual and poster!) mailed to you?

 

[Optional]

Once I even ordered a game in a German () shop, because it was cheapest there, including p&p (compared to internet and the rest of Europe).
The box was in German, but the game was in English (or multilingual). It was X3 Terran Conflict.

Well done, I can recommend that to everyone. I've done exactly the same thing. My example:

Game: Age of Wonders Shadow Magic, I saw it at 5 Euro from a German retailer.
Cheapest English version I found at the time: 69 pounds from Amazon.
This was in the time that a pound was still something like 1.50 Euro.
A ridiculous difference.

German version just meant that some smallprint on the back of the box and on the CD was in German, the game and even the front of the box was still in English. Yeah, I think it gave the choice between English, German or Spanish upon install. The game itself was from a Dutch developer.

Shop around!

 

[Rashiminos]

Now steam is (rightly) viewed as an awesome option.

Not really. The opponents just quieted down as the point had been made to those with eyes to see. I'm posting here because Steam doesn't want to run CS:S (which could be just any game, ie ciV) for some reason.

 

[Selous]

Your memory may be more exact than mine. I think we agree that Steam was the most expensive option at the time.

i remember the prices because all games on release in australia are priced like this, between 80-90 on steam and 78-80 in stores like jb hifi and eb games

I think that would be unlawful. In any case, why set the price for a 6 hour steam download to be much higher than the price to have a physical disk (with out-of-date manual and poster!) mailed to you?

i would agree with you as to it being unlawful, i would also say that selling the same game, on the same media (steam), in the same currency at a different price to someone living in a different country is also unlawful ... but only kids play games right?

 

[eris]

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but are you really defending a game for 10$ without a box against a game for $10 with a box o_O?

Just how much is a box supposed to be worth these days? Every video game box I have ever had was just a dust magnet I could easily lose. Most held more air than content. The disks themselves all went into cd wallets a long time ago to prevent waste of space. Printed manuals had a place next to the cd wallets. It made room for more tech boooks and sci fi.

It's the game that I am interested in, not the box. It is even more true with modern packaging where every manual is now a PDF file. You seem to be defending something worth nothing at all to me. Other than for collectors, who probably prefer the box was never opened in the first place for pristine condition, what value does that box give anymore?

I am reminded of a conversation I am having with the spouse over e-books. This whole wall of sci fi could be replaced by a single e-reader. (And leave room for a really big TV!) The argument for the "feel" of a physical book in your hands is becoming less and less compelling to me, and it is much more convincing than the need for a video game box or even a cd/dvd.

 

[The Mad Russian]

I bought all my games retail, even Civ 5 (from Amazon), but now, everything is Steam, no CDs, no wear and tear on the drive, no copy protection nothing. Since CiV's release, I've bough 38 other games on Steam, about half that 38 during the last mega-sale they had. I play a small fraction of them now, mostly the CoD/Modern Warfare series, Dead Space, CiV, Amnesia and Borderlands.

If Steam ever went bankrupt, I'd have to hang myself, surely along with everyone else

-Mark