Steph's next great project announcement

Well, depending on what you want to do, you've got an animator willing to help out! :D But like I said, it depends on what you want to do... I've got A LOT of suggestions, most of which would take the game in a very different direction from Civ... I really wouldn't want to get involved in the creation of a game unless I felt like it would be an improvement in my eyes.
 
I'm writting the Game Design Document, Overview, right now.

When it's finished, I'll upload it here for discussion. In the meantime, you can also give your suggestion here, or directly to my email (stephane.f.david@free.fr), so we can see if we have compatible ideas.

My game should be quite different from CivIII, except for the visual : I'd like to get as much graphics as possible without to much work to do.
 
One thing I definitely think Civ3 is lacking in is a proper relationship between people and ruler.

I think that the ruler is responsible for too much. He builds Settlers, Irrigation, Mines, city improvements... some of these things (in fact quite a number) are actually built by the people. Unless they exist under a government where the ruler is much more in control of the economy.

But one thing I suggested waaaaay back was for rural population... and it would be a population that would expand on its own. Every tile would have a value... say 1 through 10. 1 being the least desirable... say... Desert.. and 10 being the most... say Sea Coast with a River. Your population would naturally expand on its own to the surrounding squares and would gravitate toward the most desirable land... Rivers and Sea would be the first spots, or lands that have roads constructed on them.

If your people are seafaring, they may skip over undesirable squares via the ocean and move to more desirable squares along the coast.

New cities would pop up once a tile's population reached a certain amount, and the city's appearance usually be in an area that is the hub of transportation... river intersections, road intersections, good deep harbors, etc.

So your people can be seafaring people who survive on fishing, shellfish, and so on. You can be people living on flood plains and growing crops (or terrace farming too)... or you can be a shepard culture living off of sheep, yaks, cattle, or whatever beast happens to populate the surrounding area. Of course, having any one of these does not exclude you from the others, it just means that tile for tile, there are more tiles being exploited for this purpose.

And this economic basis is one of the determinants in their choice of religion. Agricultural cultures TEND to have polytheistic religions, while shepard cultures tend to be monotheistic. Sea cultures are somewhat of a toss up... but the SEA sort of presents that awesome power that might be associated with one god only. It has to do with the fact that there are many factors involved in farming, so therefore there are many gods in control of these factors, while in the shepard culture, they see the logical role of a higher being as a shepard... "The Lord is my shepard..." that kind of stuff... the Middle East has been afterall very strong in the herding business.

But, yes, the population expands and moves into these new areas, but the ruler does not necessarily hold control over them... he/she must gain control over them by either deifying himself/herself, or military control, or a combination of things... but whatever path he or she chooses will have ramifications in the future because it sets precedents.

And there should be different classes: noble, middle class, lower class. Basically, the middle class comprises the artisans like black smiths, potters, so on and so forth. The lower class, in the beginning, is largely peasants and so really doesn't exist much in the cities, but as industrialization begins, then there's a much larger labor class in the cities.

The ruler, then, is responsible for building government buildings like military quarters for the troops, governor's palaces... and I guess in the beginning, the leader would be responsible for temples and such as well. But later on, edicts and government choices will eliminate the ruler's involvement in religion (should the player go that way). And the ruler is also responsible for constructing roads, harbors, and military fortifications. Barbarians should still be a big concern.

Basically, in addition to worrying about OTHER civilizations, the leader must be concerned about maintaining his own power. A balance must be maintained between the nobles, middle class, and peasants. If one is favored too much over the others, it could lead to political turmoil, especially when a player starts adopting a more democratic society. And there could also be civil wars as political factions form, or if outlying regions decide to declare independence.

So we remove a lot of the player's concerns by making expansion the job of the people, (although the ruler, in early government types, can order certain places to be colonized first if he so chooses to gain control of valuable resources, or they can send military troops to occupy a region).

In terms of war, the ability to wage war can only go as far as the ruler's pocketbook. Treating the middle class well, especially in the later game, is VERY important because not only do they do much of the work in creating the military weaponry and equipment, but they also make up the financiers for the royalty. On the other hand, in the medieval era, focus too much on the urban middle class, and the provincial nobles may not want to contribute troops to the cause.

Edicts can be declared so that you can get a big boost in morale and loyalty from your people by declaring certain religious elements expelled (or exterminated) from society.... like in the Inquisition or jihads. But the price you pay is that you eliminate much of your middle class, which when war breaks out, may lead to big problems.

But there are these sort of foreign bankers to turn to, who charge ridiculously high interest rates, that can snowball. If your funds drop too low, and you run too much of the society, you could have a French Revolution on your hands... especially if you have to start taxing people who previously enjoyed little or no taxation.

And there are other edicts... like religious tolerance (as opposed to a Kulturekampf or Inquisition). Or edicts on the allowance or forbidding of slavery. Creation of a constitution... or the suspension of a constitution, declaration of martial law. All of these have very specific effects, and the longer they remain in place, the harder it is to overturn them.

And the governments would work in sort of a three-fold manner.... there would be the governments, Monarchy, Feudalism, Republic, Dictatorship... and then there would be economic standings... Laissez-Faire, Protectionist, Command, Socialist, Communist. And then levels of social control... Anarchist, Free, Police State, Totalitarian. (Note: I'm not sure about the labels for all of these).... but the thing is that, of course, certain forms of these things will not work with others. It's hard to have a Laissez-Faire Totalitarian Feudalism... so certain ones would be grayed out if you chose them... but also sometimes its hard or even nearly impossible to change some of these depending on your people. And sometimes, they may change them FOR you.. ;)

Basically, in the case of the market... the populations will freely trade resources with other civilizations unless you or the other civilization put the kaibash on that. And you can make certain goods hard or impossible to attain from another civilization. There would be prices for everything that fluctuate depending on accessability and production output. Unlike in Civilization, one supply will not be enough to support an entire civilization regardless of the number of cities. Also, certain goods are manufactured... Pottery, Jewelry, Clothes, Steel, Cars, and Rubber if you learn how to make synthetic rubber.

Also (and I've discussed this elsewhere) but I think it would be good idea if roads, railroads, sea, rivers, and canals had a carrying capacity... that you can ship goods along these routes, but you can only ship a certain amount... say 10 units for roads, 20 for railroads, 25 for sea or something like that. And the greater, the distance, the more the commodities cost. The result is that it makes these serve a much bigger function that giving slight trade boosts and shuttling troops. It also enables submarines to target sea lanes and cut off valuable supplies. All seems very complicated, but as I said before, the computer population would be in charge of most of this unless you choose a command or communist economy, in which case, you run the show. The only thing the player has to do (regardless of government) is to ensure that the sea lanes remain free of enemy privateers, pirates, or belligerent navies... and construct roads and railroads and make sure they're clear of maruaders, bandits, and barbarians.

Well, these are just a few ideas I have if I were making my own game... :crazyeye:
 
You definitely have some very good ideas here. What you said about auto determination (your people are making things on their own) should be a key element of SSS.
First, about science. You won't find "advances" like in civ III, like "hey, why don't we discover the wheel this morning?"

I'm thinking of a more subtle way. Science will be divided in fields, like Agriculture, Craft, Religion, Social, or later Aeronautics, Industry, etc).
Then, your people will progress in ALL the fields at the same time, but not at the same pace.
New fields can be open when reach a level in different fields, AND reach some conditions.
For instance, the "cavalry field" will be open once you have a sufficient level in both military and agriculture fields, AND have horses nearby.
You get new units when you have a good level in some fields :
Horse archer require a sufficient level in "Cavalry field" and "Range combat field". If you put your effort only to cavalry, then you may have heavy cavalry instead of horse archer.
Instead of civ III advances, you have fields that you can "upgrade" it later (like ancient medicine, classical medicine, renaissance medicine, modern medicine, etc), and applied tech (like pharmaceuticals, immunization), that give new units / buildings, or special bonuses.

Now, how do you progress in one field ?
- First, some state financing : you can set your global policy, in a field, not a tech. No "lets discover banking", but "lets support trade".
- Second, through contact with other civ : interacting with a civ (warfare, spying, trade, etc) will slowly generate techs exchange. So if you try with Spain to Colonize Aztecs, but cannot wipe them soon enough, then the Aztecs military field will progress (as they are in contact with your army mainly), and they can eventually close the gap.
- Third, depending on your people action. If your people are exploiting fish, they will progress in the Navy field. If they trade by sea, the will progress in Navy and Trade. If you have cattle nearby, you will progress in the Domestication field, if you exploit Wheat in Agricultural field. Having a lot of temples will make you progress in religion, fighting war will help your military, building bigger army will help you in logistics...

Some buildings may be build automatically by the people : if you have fishermen, an harbour may be build by them if you don't. But other buildings, like a military harbour, can be build only by the leader.

Here are some of my ideas
 
Holy Cow by what i read by u and dom, this seems like a entirely different game, sure it has the same type...simulation, but it is different, but i must say i love the idea of what you do depends on your rate of technology, as well as cities expanding themselves and not you building settlers and such, i thought it was a great idea to have the ability to gain land by your culture as in civ3 and these ideas if implemented would take the game, or make the new one such much more realisitic, however i don't know programing but this seems like it would take a lot more to do, to enable it to work, and not have too many glitchy results.....If i could do any help graphic wise, just let me know, i can't do animations though, but graphics i can do just fine CAn't wait!!! it sounds just so good, maybe firaxis would even buy the game from you once u get a raw version ready ;)
 
Oh, yes, yes yes... I forgot to go into technology... You pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I was thinking Steph.

I made a board game based on the ideas I enumerated above (it actually worked too) some of it was trimmed away for playability's sake, but much of it was retained.

Anyway, the technology was done with fields rather than specific techs to research.

And in addition to Civ-contact, I think trade should be very important with this. If you're the focal point of trade between two other civilizations, the exchange of ideas should increase your technological output... at least in certain fields.

However, I also think that there should be some instant discoveries made by "inventors" or "philosophers".... I mean sort of Thomas Edison or Copernicus. I don't know exactly how this could be implemented fairly though... certainly your existing... shall we say... Scientific Atmosphere? will lend to more such inventors and discoverers.
 
Don't forget to get Techs or Units from annexed Civ.

for exemple if I'm Darius from persia and I annex Phoenicia, I should get their commercial fleet (at least a part of it) and a part of their "commerce" with other civs. As well I should now be able to build the sames ships in all my cities by getting their Techs...
 
Well, I'm reading your ideas a bit quickly, but I find them pretty interesting. I wonder if a game of such already exists... :confused: Maybe not. :( :)

I once wanted to create a game a la Civ (what a pleasure to throw in French words in English sentences and read them with an English accent :D ). I was thinking of a simulation game that would run like SimCity : you manage your empire, but you just take important decisions and let the people evolve. You send an army fighting in an area and generals fight for you (unless you're the Great Pharaoh). Time would pass like in SimCity, so you would have to wait for things to happen. I had many idea like setting up a detailed army, with what type of sword, shield, helmet, horse, whatever... But I didn't go beyond just a few ideas, of course. May I put them here ? Would my idea suit yours ? I had also thought of trade networks capacity and stuff...
 
Originally posted by Incubus0223
Holy Cow by what i read by u and dom, this seems like a entirely different game, sure it has the same type...simulation, but it is different, ..., however i don't know programing but this seems like it would take a lot more to do, to enable it to work, and not have too many glitchy results.....If i could do any help graphic wise, just let me know, i can't do animations though, but graphics i can do just fine CAn't wait!!! it sounds just so good, maybe firaxis would even buy the game from you once u get a raw version ready ;)
Well, it should indeed be a completly different game. But don't be to impatient : I can do this only during spare time, and it's quite scarce. I may have a lot of free time in a few weeks, but I hope not as it would mean the end of the company I'm working for...
Anyway, your help is appreciated. Although I will use the same kind of graphics (terrain tile, storyboard for animations), I'd rather have only "free" graphics, without any CivIII original graphics. So it means reworking all the terrain tiles for instance, to keep the same pattern, but with a different look
 
Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
However, I also think that there should be some instant discoveries made by "inventors" or "philosophers".... I mean sort of Thomas Edison or Copernicus. I don't know exactly how this could be implemented fairly though... certainly your existing... shall we say... Scientific Atmosphere? will lend to more such inventors and discoverers.
Yes, true. It would even be possible to add real "inventor" in the game, belonging to their right civilizations, with a random chance to appear a bit sooner or later that they did, once you get a free level. A kind of bonus tech.
Say you are the Americans. With a sufficient "physics field" level, Thomas Edison can give you an applied tech related to electricity.
 
Originally posted by LBPB
Don't forget to get Techs or Units from annexed Civ.

for exemple if I'm Darius from persia and I annex Phoenicia, I should get their commercial fleet (at least a part of it) and a part of their "commerce" with other civs. As well I should now be able to build the sames ships in all my cities by getting their Techs...

Yes, as I said fighting someone will make you learn his tactics, and progress in the military field he masters. Capturing a city will give you bonus in the field related to the buildings in the city : capture a shipyard, and you'll advance in the naval field.

This way, the civilization should advance more at the same pace: if you have a superior military, the ennemy will learn from you when you fight him!
 
Originally posted by kryszcztov
I was thinking of a simulation game that would run like SimCity : you manage your empire, but you just take important decisions and let the people evolve. You send an army fighting in an area and generals fight for you (unless you're the Great Pharaoh). Time would pass like in SimCity, so you would have to wait for things to happen.
Isn't it like Caesar?

Originally posted by kryszcztov
I had many idea like setting up a detailed army, with what type of sword, shield, helmet, horse, whatever... But I didn't go beyond just a few ideas, of course. May I put them here ? Would my idea suit yours ? I had also thought of trade networks capacity and stuff...
All ideas are welcome for discussion. Just keep one thing in mind : I cannot promise to implement everything. Even if it is not the biggest project I've worked on (main one is a 6 years project with about 500k lines of code), it may become the biggest, and I'm not sure I can handle it alone.
 
Just would like to know what you have in mind.

What I suggest is that units could both stay alive after their first initial combat. This is one of the weak points of civ game as most units die very quickly out of the way.

So the combat could end in draw and armies would leave the field tired and broken but still partly living...
Also I suggest that number(same kinds?) of units could be "banded" together and attack at the same time from the same tile. Also there are things like morale, weather, supply (road network), general, level of experience and training (better system than in civ) that could affect combat just to name few...
Maybe each of these things could be thought as "bonuses" that are added to the unit values.
Also the unit could get bonuses against different kind of units or even have different ratings (hard/soft attacks).

Speaking of those inventors...I suggest also adding some kind of "random events" that could change things...example your most important harbor could catch flames and you would lose most of your navy. The other players would get knowledge of this and they and you could/should react to it. Maybe different civs could trade units together?

Also remember disasters of nature: volcanoes, floods, epidemics (more role for medicine than in civ)...
 
Combat is a WHOLE other issue for me...



Before I even get into the combat model itself I would like to explain ideas about logistics.

Napoleon wasn't kidding when he said an army marches on its stomache. In the 1500s, when the Hapsburg Army of Spain was occupying the Netherlands, the 30,000-man army was consuming 1,500 sheep A DAY! For this reason, the army was broken up rather than concentrated all in one area. And when it was brought together, they'd have to have ways to have food shipped in by cart every single day.

This is why a base of operation and supply lines are so vitally important... if it takes two weeks for food to be brought from the base to the army, many men may already have died from hunger. Or if the problem isn't food, they may have run out of ammunition by that point.

I don't know how well this can be implemented, but here goes... for early units, they can survive up to say 3 squares away from their designated base of operations (this includes in friendly territory) for as long as the food on the tile they're standing on holds out...

For example....

Firstly, as I said before, all tiles should have a value based on their output of food.

The Roman army is preparing to sack the Egyptian Empire. Their base of operations is Veii, and three squares away is Cairo. They take Cairo and then move their base of operations to Cairo. There are, say, five units in Cairo. Cairo must be able to scrounge up five units worth of food from the surrounding area in order to feed these five units.

Two stay behind to defend and three move forward. Now, they can move another three squares ahead without any logistical problems because Cairo is their new base of operations. When they step onto that fourth square, which has a value of say 5, they are now forced to feed off the land. In the next turn, the value of that tile will have decreased by 3. If they stay here one more turn, one of the units will lose a portion of its health.

If they step onto the next terrain square, and it has a value of 2, then by the next turn, one of the other units (or the same one) will have lost more health.


Example 2:

After capturing Cairo, they move three squares away, but while this is happening, an enemy unit comes and blocks the road connecting the tile that the Roman units are on and the city of Cairo. By the start of the next turn, the Romans will have been forced to consume 3 parts of this tile... they must either turn and fight the enemy standing on the tile behind them, venture farther foraging off the land to stay alive, or simply sit and watch their health dwindle... unless one of the two still in Cairo can eliminate the enemy in time.

In later eras when gunpowder and gas-powered vehicles come into play, continuing on cannot be an option. There is no living-off-the-land option later on. They must have a clear distinct supply line or else their attack and defensive value will fall quite dramatically, and if they remain on the tile they're on, their health will go down as well. So you may be thinking... only 3 squares? What about my blitzkrieg!

Well, first of all, if you keep shifting up the base of operations, then its not an issue. Also, technology extends the limits of the supply lines. Trains and automobiles extend it. The helicoptor will make the supply line almost infinite.

So I think there should be other kinds of "units"... supply units. Trains, carts, trucks, supply horses... now, they wouldn't be physical map pieces but rather values to determine just how effectively your logistics will work. And within your society, these items are available, and the more developed and industrialized or commercialized your society is the more of these they will have to spare... so if you find yourself short on them, you can buy them from the public, or you can commandeer them, but that causes some unrest especially if done excessively.

Furthermore then, you must buy (or commandeer) the supplies you need. You should have with your Military Advisor a list of required items... Food, Swords, Shields... Rifles, Ammo... Boots, etc., etc. And you can opt to buy these items every turn, or you can just say "The hell with it!" And set it so that the cost will simply be taken out of the treasury every turn.

But now this starts to get pricey (assuming you don't steal what you need from the people... in that case it just gets bloody)... so its important to have a good infrastructure, in the later years, when armies get to be so bloody expensive. You must have a banking system. You can issue bonds, but your reputation for paying them back is important, as is your reputation for paying back loans, because you will likely have to borrow money from foreign bankers... you can borrow from foreign governments, but God help you if you don't pay THEM back with interest. Or you just raise taxes which just makes EVERYBODY happy.... So ask yourself, who really wins in war? ;)


The next part... COMBAT

Sometimes I wonder about the "unit" system altogether. Because look, in Civ3, you're unit has health, and if you let it rest, it heals. But are we to assume that the "health" is in fact the number of men? What else could it be? How does simply resting sprout those dead men back to life?

What I think is that each unit should represent say a division....hmm... maybe just a brigade. After a battle, it will be damaged... to explain this graphically, let's say it has 3 hitpoints. Let's say each hitpoint represents a number of men... say, 1,000. If you fight a battle and you lose one HP, thats 1,000 men dead. You will not get back those thousand men... however, if you still have a line of supply, you will have reinforcements shipped in.

So actually, if we had two units attacking a city, and after the first one attacks, it is left with 1 hitpoint, and the second has 2... from some previous engagement. You could (if they're the same unit) disband the first unit and group it into the second to give it a 3 "hitpoints" of value... making it a whole brigade by combining manpower.

Now, taking a page from CtP2 but taking it to the next step... I think that several units should fight together since most armies are comprised of combined arms... In a given battle, the placement of these troops will depend largely on the technological era. Cavalry in the Ancient and Gunpowder age will attack from the sides, while in the Middle Ages, they'll attack head on. You'll want to give archers an escort of men-at-arms as well as pikemen, and later on, you'll want to intersperse pikemen with musketmen.

But that will be done by the computer when it graphically represents this battle.... so that unlike in Civ3, we can have all of our troops attacking at once. As the attacker, we can determine how many of our troops we want to put into the fray, as the defender, we do not have that decision.

Every unit will get a value as Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, Light Cavalry, and Heavy Cavalry, and they will get bonuses when fighting the kind of unit they perform well against... not really breaking any new ground here, the real-time strategy games have been doing it for ages.

And also, you can capture enemy soldiers since there is no real need to have the two armies fight until one is entirely obliterated... very few battles have ever gone that way. Most of the time, the other army flees, or is capture, or both in addition to its fatalities and wounded... Captured soldiers will be sent back to the base of operations and held there. They have no real purpose after this except to serve as a bargaining chip... releasing POWs, and allowing them to return home, can be seen as a sign of good will to occupied peoples, and could give a bonus in placating them.


EDIT: I also agree with Sickman's view on adding bonuses dependent on morale and such... I would go one step further and add a few more including climate in which those accustomed to it get a bonus, and familiarity with the territory (home field advantage) would get another bonus. I would keep these separate because you could have an army that is used to the cold climate fighting in another cold climate not their own, and their opponents might be entirely unfamiliar with the cold and the region.
 
Originally posted by Steph
Isn't it like Caesar?

Dunno, never played this one, but as I said, I have the feeling that this kind of game may already exist, so... maybe was I just reinventing Caesar ? :confused:

All ideas are welcome for discussion. Just keep one thing in mind : I cannot promise to implement everything. Even if it is not the biggest project I've worked on (main one is a 6 years project with about 500k lines of code), it may become the biggest, and I'm not sure I can handle it alone.

500k lines of code !!! :eek: :eek: I must say I am impressed ! Did you do this on your own ? I can't see if it's really much, but from my point of view, it is !


EDIT : Just ran quickly through Dom Pedro's post, and yes, you need army logistics ! It's very important ! At last we could have a game where going to war REALLY needs an effort, unless there's already a game dealing with it ?? ;)
 
First is it a real time of turn based?
I was thinking of civ ideas and realized that many of the "objects" in civ3 are similar. For example there are techs, units, citizens, civs, cities, terrains, resources, and things like food and science. Most of these can be combined. Examples: A city that can move.
A resource that can be attacked.
Terrain required for techs, yes I know that won't be quite the same.
A building that can go from city to city.
Railroads that can fight back.
And so on.
Only 1 type of object would be needed that could do everything that anything can do now. It would be easier to edit, is there an editor, things like change the movement of cities from 0 like now to 1, making them "nomads." It would be easy for the program to compute everything since it only needs to go through every one and test out each ability instead of doing cities, civs, resources, units, etc. in that order.
 
A city that can move? I must not be following...
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A building that can go from city to city.

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Huh?


Railroads that can fight back.

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Hey dom that last really long one........is exactly what i read somewhere else but w/ much more detail, i love the idea of the cities having to support the units and how far they are from the area determines wheter or not they get food from the city or the terrain there on and the morale too is a key factor.........but

what about ships, they can't live off the sea, yet they can go far out as they have in all of history, do ships have like "50 food" or whatever depending on their size, and lose 1 food per turn, and they can drop off food to an army, and resupply by taking food from another city, temporarly take away from theyre supply within the city? just intrested in your ideas about naval supply, as well how can planes work in this game???
 
Yes, thats true... Incubbus... on my way to dinner tonight I realized I forgot to make reference to the merchant marine... it would be nice if you could sort of recruit merchant vessels into your navy for such duty if necessary (in addition to whatever you might have already built especially for the military).

Essentially though, you'd have a lot more squares to work with in terms of sea... say like 20 sea squares for the ships to supply an amphibious invasion. But of course, this doesn't mean that if you want to cross the English channel that is say 2 squares, that you can suddenly go 18 squares inland. No, you're still bound by the rules of land warfare... and you'll have to have some base of operations on that land too.

Perhaps a base of operations does not necessarily have to be a city. You could have a sort of beach head kind of base of operations that needs to be heavily supplied with merchant marine deliveries, and the more men occupying the beach head, the more merchant marine you need.

Well, with the navy, it becomes a bit complicated. The reason is that we have to know what a ship is to represent... I mean, I think what would be a good idea is if there's a sort of "scout" ship... like a Christopher Columbus or Vasco da Gama type vessel that can sail to a coast, and take what it needs from that coast... because one ship doesn't have many thousands of men... in theory, they could hang out there indefinitely because there are so few of them, that the food will replenish itself.

But if the "ship" units are to represent say a fleet... then we have to start thinking about what to do for them for supplies. I think that it would be good if you had to have coaling stations for Industrial-era units. That was one of the big reasons for imperialism was to gain coaling and resupply stations for their naval vessels to give them an extended reach. But yes, I suppose they'd have to have some kind of stores that allowed them to last for extended periods of time.

But I don't know about limiting them with supply lines because boats really don't get resupplied by other boats out in the middle of the ocean... particular since the ocean is such a big place.

Aircraft, I think work fine the way they are... The idea behind the range system now is that that it the absolute farthest the plane can go before having to turn around and come back... the condition would be that the airfield in which they're taking off from would have to have a supply of Fuel coming in, otherwise the planes would never leave the ground. I think that certain ship functions could work in a similar way... I mean, ships, naval ships, at least don't do a whole lot of cruising around. They're either going to a specified destination, are conducting a mission, or are patrolling a given area. So I would say, give them a very high movement rate, but restrict exploration to only singular scout vessels. That way the navies only go into areas already explored... and basically, they'd either patrol an area where they will not travel too far away from their base of supplies, or they can make long voyages in 1 or 2 turns across oceans, but only to specific destinations. That's just an idea though... I'd have to give it more thought.
 
u know u could just call the game Steph & Dom's Civilization instead of sid meiers hehe dom you have great ideas i really enjoy listening to them, so it seems like from the military aspect all of the ideas are ready just need to be implemented and playtested.......i can see the game in my head already....this could be a great thing......Don't forget i can help with graphics so just give me a PM or somethin

Also if this isn't ready by the time Conquest comes out, we maybe able to get more ideas with there expanded science platform, research for your master military guy or whatever, as well as the expanded game play, in fact i was just curious did u get some of ur ideas from the press releases about the conquest tech. stuff or anything? it does seem orginginal though ur ideas don'e mean to say your copying ideas or anything
 
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