Straight from the horse's mouth - recommended hardware specifications not enough ?

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Based on the heavy modding of this post the mods seem to think this poster is making a valid post. Laughable. And my comment was actually aimed more at the guy complaining about someone complaining.

I still believe the original poster is making an ubsurd complaint. Dare I say, it's stupid. And generally I consider people who make stupid statements to be idiots. But in no way am I saying he's an idiot. No sir.

What exactly is it you wanted anyway? You want them to not release the game? Perhaps fold up shop and retire because it's too difficult to meet the demands of hardcore gamers in this day and age? Would it make you feel better if the "recommended" requirements (which are fine for most players, but not for you who wants to play on a huge map with lots of civs which reasonably takes more computing power) were so high that most gamers would be to afraid to play the game and instead didn't buy it because you wanted the sticker changed?

Or perhaps they should limit the options? Would you feel better if there was NO option for a huge map? If the only way to do it was by modding the game which they would no be responsible for? Console games are good in that way. The reason console games always work (along with the standardized hardware) is they set limits that will go along with whatever console they are designing for. If you played this game on perhaps an Xbox you MIGHT (I don't know, just making assumptions) be limited to only playing on standard maps with 7-8 civs. Would that be better? Instead you have it as a computer game where you can do whatever you want with the game if you have the inclination but instead of being happy you come on a forum and complain as if you're the victim in some plot to steal your money. Everything, EVERYTHING that is done requires money. I hardly think Firaxis games is on the level of say Microsoft (or Apple, or Blizzard, or EA, etc) but even the big dogs with millions (billions?) to throw at bugs do not find every little problem.

And for those of you who are jumping in the thread and joining in the complaints because you can't get the game to work I can only say that the original poster was complaining about a very specific problem, not just generic crashes or the game not working at all. Those are bigger issues and hopefully they will be fixed.

One things for sure, nobody that works on a game should ever actually come out to a forum and try to help someone or post anything resembling an opinion that hasn't been given the ok by a lawyer before posting because anything and everything they say will be analyzed, run through a grinder, reanalyzed and then thrown back at them to suit whatever complaint the complainer has.

It's altogether silly and if people want to stand in the rain and complain when it's wet then far be it from me to stop them. :rolleyes:

Moderator Action: If you have an issue with mod actions PM us. Warned for discussing mod actions.
Also, warned for trolling. Calling people idiots (and trying to disguise it) is not allowed.
-Civrules

Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
ChuckLe

Sorry, I was at the office so I was only guessing the time.
I tryed again to go to the military advisor and I counted to about 3 seconds now. It feels like it took longer before, maybe Im wrong or maybe because of memoryleek. I dont know.
 
jdp311 said:
snip...

What exactly is it you wanted anyway?...

The thread is an FYI if you look at post #1.

ChuckLe said:
For those of us that want to play on large maps with the recommended hardware specifications for the game, then tough, you can forget it!...

So, what's the problem?

If that makes me an idiot, then I'll get me straitjacket. :crazyeye:

Sirian has subsequently disclosed other details that go on to try and excuse the slowness by blaming it on the AI of all things.

Apparently even sub recommended requirements are adequate, but the desire to play on huge maps is an 'unrealistic' expectation by idiots such as me.

Also, the general consensus is that the 3D engine is marvellous, the GUI is responsive, the AI is ingenious, and map designers must be held in high esteem and their every word must be lovingly cherished, otherwise they will in future, refrain from indulging in public conversations with idiots like me.

Hope that's a sufficient sumary for you?
 
jdp311 said:
I still believe the original poster is making an ubsurd complaint. Dare I say, it's stupid. And generally I consider people who make stupid statements to be idiots. But in no way am I saying he's an idiot. No sir.

"I still believe that this poster is contributing nothing to this discussion. Dare I say, it's downright arrogant. And generally I consider people who make arrogant statements to be useless in any society. But in no way am I saying he's arrogant. No sir."

Sound ridiculous? I thought so. I'm so tired of people lobbying insults left and right at posters with legitimate complaints about the product they purchased. Sheesh. So please be a little more conscientious of others, da?

Moderator Action: Trolling - Warned. No need for a response.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Novaya Havoc said:
"I'm so tired of people lobbying insults left and right at posters with legitimate complaints about the product they purchased. Sheesh. So please be a little more conscientious of others, da?

and i am tired of people lobbying insults to the people who can get it working and say the game is not a 'complete pile of garbage.'

you see i think the problem is not that there is complaints, i think its a problem with blowing things out of porportion.
 
I haven't seen one person go out of their way to harass people who are enjoying Civ4 in game discussion threads.

But I do see a lot of people going to the Tech Support and other complaint threads to take jabs at posters who cannot run the game. So there's a large distinction there.

... And for every person blowing things wildly out of proportion (like the "class action" posters), there are at LEAST two who go out of their way to ignore any -- ANY -- problems, from installation, to memory leaks and lags, to multiplayer crashes. So it's a lot more complex than you attest.
 
Lobox said:
ChuckLe

Sorry, I was at the office so I was only guessing the time.
I tryed again to go to the military advisor and I counted to about 3 seconds now. It feels like it took longer before, maybe Im wrong or maybe because of memoryleek. I dont know.

Thanks Lobox.

3 seconds still sounds slowish but...if you can live with it.

By way of comparison how many seconds to toggle between the globe view and back?

How many seconds to overlay the tile grid?

(All on large maps btw)
 
RIT Beast said:
There's already a fix out for this: Upgrade your machine.

Well, not everybody have money or desire to upgrade theirs computers for one game.
You cant almost find a faster computermodel than my computer but I also have minor issues with speed in this game.

ChuckLe mentioned the slowness of the grid, I to have experienced that (forgot about that before), not 30 seconds but a few seconds.

My expectation is that (grid, military advisor or what ever) it should show the grid the same time I press the button, not wait a few seconds.

But when I change turn or move units its really fast even in the late game (so far, maybe it gets slower when I put up the difficult level. :) ).

Thats strange for me, why is the grid so slow compared to other parts of the game?
 
Novaya Havoc . . . I have no idea why you see the need to keep posting here and trying to be a mod but whatever floats your boat.

Allow me to expain. I was using that absurd lyrical configuration to poke fun at the fact that the mod said I wasn't allowed to call someone an idiot, it's too personal. I'm not sure why you seem to get offended by the smallest of things but I would suggest possibly trying Zen meditation to relax. :goodjob:

I, in fact, I have no problem with you calling me arrogant. If that's your opinion after reading my post, that's cool.

Please notice that after my light jab (some might call it humor, look it up) at the mod. I make a medium sized reply to the original poster's complaints.

Chuckle (original poster),

Please don't say this was "just an FYI". You're original post comes off as hostile, sarcastic and basically mean-spirited. If it was your intention to simply post a "I like the game but am having this small problem that I would like fixed" type post allow me to say, YOU FAILED.

If you're original post had been structured differently you may have had quite a bit less in the way of sarcastic replies.

And basically, I'm trying to say that Civ is not the only game with this problem. In an FPS you would turn up more particle effects, more textures, antialiasing etc, etc. If you turned up everything and were playing with a PC that met the minimum specs would you complain?

Maybe you would, I don't know. But computer gamers are supposedly more knowledgeable about our system and how things work. You want a larger map, more particle effects, prettier exposions? Then you need a real "gaming PC" not just something that meets the "recommended" sticker on a game.

I had this was common knowledge, perhaps not . . .

Just out of curiosity, what games DO meet your incredible standards?


Moderator Action: Once again, warned for discussing mod actions. The two following posts have been deleted and merged into this one. Use the Edit button if you have something more to say in a post.
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jdp311 said:
Chuckle (original poster),

Please don't say this was "just an FYI". You're original post comes off as hostile, sarcastic and basically mean-spirited. If it was your intention to simply post a "I like the game but am having this small problem that I would like fixed" type post allow me to say, YOU FAILED.

If you're original post had been structured differently you may have had quite a bit less in the way of sarcastic replies.

And basically, I'm trying to say that Civ is not the only game with this problem. In an FPS you would turn up more particle effects, more textures, antialiasing etc, etc. If you turned up everything and were playing with a PC that met the minimum specs would you complain?

Maybe you would, I don't know. But computer gamers are supposedly more knowledgeable about our system and how things work. You want a larger map, more particle effects, prettier exposions? Then you need a real "gaming PC" not just something that meets the "recommended" sticker on a game.

I had this was common knowledge, perhaps not . . .

Did you hear me complaining on this thread about the sarcastic replies?

There was a disclaimer in post #1 alluding to attention span also. Anyone who fits that cap can wear it.

Large maps have always been a fundamental part of the Civilization series, not a tacked on afterthought requiring goodness knows what hardware to play it successfully. (That particular question was conveniently sidestepped by Sullla btw very early on in the thread and remains unanswered!).

I am realistic when it comes to gaming too. I have zero expectations of my PC to run FEAR, Quake 4, Doom 3, or Battlefield 2. It does however play COD1, Half Life 2, IGI2, CIV3 and plenty of others quite acceptably i.e. 50+ FPS or so.

I didn't expect Civ IV to bog down even on medium sized late games, but it does, and huge games are completely unplayable due to the unresponsiveness of the GUI.

If you read the Apolyton thread, you'll find extremely well specified PCs that still bog down. The OP of that thread gave up, thus contradicting the thread title.

I was hoping a patch would improve the situation, but according to our esteemed map developer, there isn't a problem to be 'patched'. It's tough luck as I said in post #1, 'unrealistic' yada yada, AI, yada yada.

This isn't a problem, as SMAC remains an unplayed game here, and is next on the list. So Civ IV will be uninstalled, and taken back for a refund. End of story. No big deal whatsoever.

Some people are easily satisfied with this sort of treacle-ware GUI. I'm not.
 
sturmtrupp said:
Those games are also a lot less CPU/Memory intensive. Furthermore, I have not experienced huge memory leak issues but then again I have not played 8 hours straight. Quick soln' would be to close and restart app, but something that if true should be fixed in the patch.

Are you kidding? BF2 are really intensive on CPU and memory. :)
 
Ahhh, once again its the 'Attack of the Whining Noobies'. Sheesh, some people will NEVER be happy. I bet Chuckle-being the supreme noob he clearly is-would have been the LOUDEST complainant if Firaxis had, mid-stream, changed tack and made the game 2D-yet he whinges and whines because this beautiful 3D game requires more than recommended specs to play ultra-huge games. I also love the main source of his complaint-wait times of more than 10 seconds-WTH??? Ten seconds is NOTHING-whats the matter, not had your ritalin today? You only got an attention span of a 2 year old?? Seriously, if you came here saying that you were waiting more than 5 minutes for anything other than a change in turn, then I may have had some sympathy for you-but complaining about a 10 second lag on what is otherwise a brilliant game just strikes me as the petty, petulant BS I come to expect from petulant little children who expect everything YESTERDAY. Seriously, if you don't like the game, then why don't you go and play some RTS or FPS game, 'coz it sounds like that is more at your intelligence level (such as it is). But please don't come here making your whiny, penny-ante compaints which end up taking up so much space at this board.
Oh and, btw, I have a system with recommended specs, and am able to play a large map without any wait time AT ALL. I have some graphics glitches and occasional crashes but, given the problems I am having with things like Google Earth and Doom 3, I place the blame for that squarely at the feet of ATI-the designers of the chip in my Radeon 9550 video card-have you considered that THIS might be the cause of any problems you are having?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Moderator Action: Aussie_Lurker, I've said above (very clearly) to stop the trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
ChuckLe said:
Thanks Lobox.

3 seconds still sounds slowish but...if you can live with it.

By way of comparison how many seconds to toggle between the globe view and back?

How many seconds to overlay the tile grid?

(All on large maps btw)

When I loaded the game it took maybe 5 seconds to turn on grid the first time, after that the same time I pressed the button.
3 seconds zooming in from globe view.
11 seconds zooming out to globe view.
 
It's sad. There was a lot of great discussion in this thread. From both points of view. Serious discussion.

Sirian even found and posted a fix for one of the CTD bugs. (Yes, it was a game issue - not a driver or hardware issue.)

Now it has turned into a flame war. From both points of view. I'd almost think some want the thread and topic closed.

If we don't discuss issues rationally, and determine if they are problems or not, they will never get fixed if needed.

JMHO.
 
Harkonnen said:
Don't developers know 50-years-or-so-old algorithm of BFS?

Well since Best-First doesn't guarantee a shortest path, just a path, it wouldn't be a great choice.


I'd assume they'd use Djikstra's in Civ3 since they had zero cost paths. If they had non-zero cost paths like they do now in Civ4, they could probably use A*. I am certain that Soren is intimately familiar with them.
 
oldStatesman said:
It's sad. There was a lot of great discussion in this thread. From both points of view. Serious discussion.

Sirian even found and posted a fix for one of the CTD bugs. (Yes, it was a game issue - not a driver or hardware issue.)

Now it has turned into a flame war. From both points of view. I'd almost think some want the thread and topic closed.

If we don't discuss issues rationally, and determine if they are problems or not, they will never get fixed if needed.

JMHO.

Hi,

I wonder if there's anything left to discuss on this particular topic now?

Arguably, Sirian and Sullla are pretty good authorities on whether a fix will be issued for the problem referred to in post #1 and because they don't see it as a problem to begin with, then the answer to that is surely, 'NO'?

They seem to think that the solution is to throw bigger and better hardware at it. I disagree. You'll see whether that's right or not in due course no doubt.

What were your other concerns if they weren't to do with slow GUI, slow maps etc.?

As regards CTDs and such, surely a patch would fix those issues separately.

Today was the first time we ever saw any form of 'official' recognition that there actually was a problem (other than the ATI issue).
 
Moderator Action: This clearly should have been closed long ago. Couldn't have expected everything to come back to normal in here after multiple other warnings. There's a lot to discuss, but people can't handle it. Yet it’s interesting how some continue on with these pointless troll posts even when there have been previous warnings (aka, ignoring mod actions).
Some posts have been deleted.

Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
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